5600 Econominder Brine tank overflowing

14 years ago

My brine tank is overflowing, and I have looked at some old posts with very similar problems, but I still have a question. When the brine tank is filling up, the water continues past the top of the air check piece at the bottom of the plastic tube and just keeps filling. I have cleaned out the tank completely, as well as the air check piece, but it still keeps filling up after I put it all back together.

When I had the air check piece out and was cleaning it in the sink, I could hear the ball go up and down as I dunked the piece in and out of a sink full of hot water.

My specific questions are these:

1. Is the air check valve actually used to stop the water coming from the control head, kind of like in a toilet? Or is the air check just an emergency feature for when the control head tries to put too much water in?

2. How is the control head supposed to know when to stop putting water into the tank?

This seems like a problem only during the brine tank fill step, not a problem with sucking water out of the brine tank. Agreed?

Thanks

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Comments (7)

User
14 years ago
The air check is to prevent the control valve sucking air during the brining stage of regeneration not during the brine tank fill stage at the end.

You should have a float assembly in the 4" round tube to prevent overfilling of the brine tank during a control valve malfunction exactly as you are experiencing now. If your softener is old enough it may not have the Fleck 2310 safety float and you should upgrade to that once the problem is solved.

1.If the brine tank overflows continuously then you have a problem in the 5600 piston assembly and possibly the brine valve.

2.If the brine tank overflows and stops them you have a problem in the injector, screen, and/or brine valve and/or the drain line from the 5600 could be clogged.

The way it's supposed to work is...

The last stage of regeneration is the brine tank fill. The control valve puts a volume of water into the brine tank based on the salt setting in the back of the 5600. That water dissolves the salt and waits till the next regeneration.

When the next regen starts the 5600 sucks out the brine and flows it through the resin. If there's a problem and the 5600 doesn't suck out almost all of the brine the level of water will be higher after the last (brine fill stage). Each successive regen will add more water till the brine tank overflows.

Questions...

Water system or well water?

How old is the softener?

Has anyone been doing routine maintenance on the softener?
sporre
Original Author
14 years ago
Great, this is very helpful. Watching what happens at each stage as I manually cycle through should help. I'll do that next, but I'll answer your questions first.

1. The softener is about 15 years old, I think. A few months ago I had the timer replaced.

2. IT's city water.
3. Routine maintenance has not been done. Although today I did clean out the brine tank and the tube that goes down to the air check. My air check assembly does have the floating ball, and it seems to work when I was dunking the assembly into the sink. The ball was moving up and down.

Thanks a lot for you help. I hope I can fix this or at least diagnose the problem today.
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"WRONG, water should NEVER come out of the overflow on the brine tank... never ever. Something is wrong! " justalurker, I agree with you that there is a problem with the softener! I was referring to the immediate problem being resolved - namely, the almost ankle depth water in the utility room that we had to deal with when we first discovered this issue. As I mentioned, we have switched the softener to bypass mode now so atleast we dont have to deal with overflowing water in the utility room, but like you said we still need to fix the root cause with the softener. The documents and links you provided gave pretty good overview of how the softener works and how it can be serviced. I also talked to the softener dealer I had purchased the softener from and they advised me to try some things: 1) Confirm that the PE brine tube connecting the control valve and brine tank is connected securely to the control valve. (verified this is true) 2) Remove the air check valve from the brine tank (BTW, is the "air check valve" the same as the "safety float" you keep referring to in your posts?). Clean out the air check valve to remove anything that might prevent it from sucking the brine from the brine tank back into the control valve. I tried to pull out the PE tube from the white plastic elbow (see photo of this in the link below) so that I can lift out the air check valve from the white cylinder in the brine tank and clean it, but it seemed quite tight (maybe its supposed to be this tight) and I didnt want to yank on it too hard and cause further damage (just playing safe due to my inexperience dealing with softeners). Will it be easier to remove the PE tubing from the white plastic elbow if I turn the control valve to "Backwash" position manually and remove some water from the PE tubing first? If so, when control valve is in "backwash" position, would the water from the PE tubing flow out the "bypass outlet" (and hence require me to turn off the bypass) OR would it flow out the "drain line"? Basically, I am trying to figure out the right way to remove and clean the "air check valve". 3) If cleaning the "air check valve" does not help, the dealer advised to remove the control valve and bring it in because it would probably still be covered under warranty. Per the dealer, since the softener was purchased and installed in late summer of 2006, most of the repair costs should still be covered under manufacturer's warranty. As I understand they would send the control valve to the manufacturer (Water Right) and get it back within 7-10 days and I would be responsible for 25% of the cost. So if it comes to this, I will need to figure out the right way to remove the control valve - I understand it should not be too hard and the control valve can be "twisted off" from the top of the resin tank (how do i disconnect control valve from the bypass or the water meter before twisting it off the resin tank)? As you quoted Clint Eastwood, I can and prefer doing the "basic" troubleshooting (i.e. cleaning air check valve and, if needed, remove the control valve) but since its under warranty, it might be best to have it fixed by the pros (in the case the manufacturer themselves). Would appreciate help with these "basic" tasks. Thanks again, -Topper Here is a link that might be useful: PE tubing connected to white plastic elbow
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User
14 years ago
Does the brine pickup and air check look like this?
sporre
Original Author
14 years ago
Actually, mine does not have the big float mechanism. Mine only has the piece at the bottom with the ball inside. So now I understand that mine actually does not have the overflow preventer that you say I should upgrade to.

When I manually force the brine refill step, the tank still fills up without stopping. So cleaning the tank and air check piece did not fix that problem.

When I force the brine fill step, the brine is removed from the tank, so maybe that portion of the process is OK.

Any more tips for a next step? I will call the repair guy who installed it if necessary, but it would be nice to fix it myself to save money.
User
14 years ago
The brine tank has no control over the amount of water sent to it. That is a function of the operation of the 5600 control valve.

The brine valve may be stuck. Go behind the 5600 and remove the rear plate. On the LH side you'll see the little gizmo to set the salt dose. Below that is the brine valve with the spring. Push down that valve and make sure it is not stuck.

If that doesn't solve the problem then my opinion is that after 15 years of service it's time for a new softener. The resin has a lot of regens on it and the control valve needs to be rebuilt. By the time you pay parts and labor a la carte you'll be very close to the price of a new softener.

Stepping up to a new 5600 Econominder based softener you'll gain a demand initiated control valve (rather than the old and inefficient timer based you have) which will be more efficient in both water and salt use. You'll get the new style Fleck 2310 safety float-brine pickup and another 15 years of trouble free service... with a little routine maintenance.
sporre
Original Author
14 years ago
I think I have it figured out and should be able to fix it. When the brine valve is up, the valve is closed. It should stay up unless the dial (brine cam) comes around and pushes it down. The problem is that it doesn't stay up on its own. After looking at pictures of the part online, I think a piece of plastic might have broken or something. I think the $9.95 brine valve assembly should fix it.

Thanks again for your help. I did not have the documentation or knowledge to figure this out on my own.
User
14 years ago
No docs... why didn't you say so?

click here for Fleck 5600 Service Manual

5600 Econominder Brine tank overflowing

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5600 Econominder Brine tank overflowing

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