How much more work ($$$) is it to install a Thermostatic vs PB?

17 years ago

After reading all the posts and looking at all the components from each manufactuer, I am still really confused as to what I need to buy and what kind of plumbing work is involved in changing out my current 25 year old regular old "contractor special" shower valve with a thermostatic one.

First, when I look at most of these Thermostatic valves, it includes the "trim kit" only. The Moen Exacttemp Model T3330ST is $277, but the MOEN website doesn't give much clarity on what valve goes with it. Lousy website. Anyway, it looks like the 3330 valve may be the one... but it doesn't say thermostatic. Cost $117 for the valve.

When I look at Delta, their website is much clearer with their Innovations thermostatic value, it states the model number for the valve (rough) as $38 and the trim kit $265. Delta must be new in thermostatic products because I read on a forum that delta didn't even have one.

Anyway, my main question is how involved is the plumbing going to be for changing my old PB valve to Thermostatic... I would really love Thermostatic since we get a lot of cold showers when someone flushes a toilet or turns the water on (the opposite of anti-scald! LOL) Is the plumbing redo going to cost me alot of $$$ or is it a relatively simple thing to change out? If its going to be this really involved project, I'll just go PB.

Any recomendations on manufaturer would be great too: All I need is a 2 way diverter trim kit and the appropriate plumbing that goes with it (valve?) I will get the shower head and handheld seperately.

Thanks! Sally

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Comments (5)

peteinsonj
17 years ago
Its an easy replacement -- no difference in the plumbing at all.

Hot and cold in, water to the spout and shower out -- just like a non thermostatic valve.

Once installed, though, you need to rememeber to set the temperature limit. Easy to do.

That said -- I would urge you add a volume control for the shower. That way you can "set" the valve to the right temperature and use the volume control to turn the shower on with as much or as little force as you like.

/p
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nepool
Original Author
17 years ago
Thanks! That is exactly what I wanted to know. I am looking at hansgrohe etc.. valves with the one handle for volume and a knob for the temp. I was looking at the Hansgrohe Stratos Thermo 2: using the second diverter for a handheld.. right now I have a tub filler, but since we are converting the tub to a shower, I thought that "spout" or plumbing could be easily changed to point to a handheld. Does that sound possible?
Thanks again.
Sally

Here is a link that might be useful: Hansgrohe Thermo 2
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Well as I said before this communication standard is new. There are several competing avenues for home automation... I think this is the (bigger pie in the sky) motivation behind it. Because other companies could be able to design other home automation features that would then tie into the hub. The biggest thing above HVAC control is that the protocol is network friendly, the other not so obvious benefit is a direct path to the internet via Redlink. It's a more secure way of handling traffic. WiFi has it's uses, but there are serious known flaws (security for one) The other is bandwidth hogging. There are so many products already in this space and they all fight for WiFi bandwidth in the home. A home full of users using multiple WiFi devices probably wouldn't bring much joy. As far as the competing avenue, I'm sure Honeywell wants to retain market share as I see them fighting with Amazon and Google over home automation control. (Google currently owns the Nest thermostat, tied into their home assistant with anything from lighting control, to sprinkler control and home security for that matter... so I'm sure Honeywell is well aware... and Google was at one of these protocol standard meetings.... it's all about control. [Google is the elephant in the proverbial HVAC closet.] I am not a fan of the Nest, it tries to be all things to all people and all HVAC configurations and the bigger problem with the Nest is that it is the dumb down approach to HVAC control. It doesn't 'know' anything outside of the temperature in the room. On top of this, the Nest is practically impossible to trouble shoot. (If you disconnect a lead it will just give you disconnection errors... how's that for having fun?) I don't even waste my time trying to trouble shoot Nest problems. I automatically assume the problem is the Nest if there is no other obvious reason for the trouble. The HVAC 'communication' control benefit this gives Honeywell a big advantage, in my opinion. (They are behind the protocol.) We'll see how it plays out, it's only been roughly 4 years. But legacy equipment will never work with this new protocol... You will have to buy equipment that 'EMPLOYS' the standard. If other manufacturer's come to their senses and realize the threat Google imposes and all jump onto the new protocol, it could be lights out for Google. Which in turn would lead to literally thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of Nest thermostats just ripe for the picking and conversion. Honeywell isn't stupid, they've been at this game longer than Google has been around.... and Google is known for getting into things that are far and above over their heads. We'll see... There are a plethora of ways forward that this protocol could lead to additional home automation avenues. Honeywell is a gadget producer so we can at this point really only speculate what the end game might entail. Oh, you're such a 'control freak' Honeywell.... something Google is not. For the poor homeowner scraping by... no sprinkler system, no home automation, no security, etc. This doesn't mean much. But I as a HVAC specialist, have to know it.
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dickross
17 years ago
A couple things to consider.

If your getting cold surges, then your PB valve is not working. Not surprising for a 25 year old valve. Cold or hot surges are what pressure balanced valves were designed to prevent. They compensate for changes in the pressure coming from the hot or cold supply. None do it perfectly but most are adequate.

Thermostatic valves will maintain a set temperature when either the pressure or the temperature from either supply line changes. This will help if your water heater is a little undersize. They will also compensate for changes in pressure but may not be as fast as a PB valve. Since they use a temperature "sensor" of some type, there may be a lag in the compensating. I don't know how long a lag this might be I don't have any experience with thermostatic valves. It likely will vary between different brands.

The antiscald feature on PB valves is also an anti get hot water quick feature. It restricts how much the hot side will flow. If your a long way from the water heater this can waste a lot of time and water. The Thermostatic valves should not have this problem, but some may. depending on how they are constructed.

A tub filler spout is unrestricted and will allow you to fill a tub quickly, but also allows you to run a lot of water from the hot supply and get hot water to your shower quickly,(assuming you haven't restricted it with an anti scald feature) . If you install a second shower head where the tub spout is supossed to go, you will restrict the flow (even if you remove the showerhead flow restrictor) and it will take longer to get hot water. I have seen tub spouts mounted low in a shower. Generaly refered to as a "toe tester".

I considered both types and decided on a PB valve with the Anti scald "feature" disabled.
amyinms
17 years ago
My husband is a plumber and the Delta shower valve and trim kit are the easiest to install and repair.

Moen is likely to make you need therapy by the time it is installed. Instructions are vague and parts are many so you might want to give that some consideration.

Hans grohe has been bought out by one of the major manufactures but I dont remember which but the quality is par with less expensive models so unless you are in love with a certian model go with a Delta

All new shower valves are required to be pb for the scald reason

good luck
Amy
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jeff_atl
17 years ago
Masco bought Hansgrohe in 2002. Masco also owns Delta, Peerless Faucets, Kraftmaid Cabinets, and many others.

Jeff

Here is a link that might be useful: Masco Companies
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How much more work ($$$) is it to install a Thermostatic vs PB?

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How much more work ($$$) is it to install a Thermostatic vs PB?

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peteinsonj

nepoolOriginal Author

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nepool
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