wow! What a great thread! And I only came on the organic forum today because I finally made that compost bin and felt like gathering a little knowledge from fellow gardeners. Boy! Have you guys educated me! Along with the often unreliable words of 'organic' and 'sustainable' to describe gardening practices, where precisely does 'permaculture' fit in? I have had the opportunity to brush the surface of this topic, but haven't put it in perspective completely with the terms 'organic' and 'sustainable' yet. I know there is a permaculture formum on gardenweb, but this thread seems to be on the track of discussing such things, particularly how to "tread lightly on the earth" and how to feed individuals, families, villages and the world effectively. Organic farming is from the heart. It's such a long thread, I've already forgotten who said it. and I've mutilated the text, though hopefully not the meaning. That said, I'm in complete agreement with the sentiment. What we aspire to, ie producing nutritious food from the earth without damaging the earth, can not be regulated in any meaningful way until the whole of community changes thought patterns. The ideas of "nutritious food" and "not damaging the earth" need to be of higher priority than the profits that come of this coaxing life from dirt. Of course, many might counter that statement with thoughts on money efficiency. But here, I say again, these ideals can't be accomplished unless the individual, family, community and world changes thought patterns, especially as related to money and commerce. Well, I suppose that went off on a side-track..but I'd still like to know where you think 'permaculture' relates to the discussion of catchwords in agriculture and what the true wave of the future will be. Organic might be happening now, but how do you think these slacking regulations will affect the future of raising food? Trish

We're about to have 5 days straight of 95+ with 100 degrees by Tuesday and NO RAIN. My cottage pinks are done in--nearly all clumps are brown and fried. The pinks have edged one path in my cottage garden since when we built the house in 2005. A few purple heuchera that have done well for years are also crispy and the creeping jenny (gold) around them is definitely fried. It's all that I can do to keep the daylilies going. The foliage is looking really bad now.

My son recorded some of the old time radio shows on an MP3 player for me. I loved many of the shows that you mention ... and did someone mention Fred Allen, with his Allen's Alley and all of the characters thereon? His and Bob Hope's humour were somewhat sharper, and on occasion somewhat more risqué, that was Fibber McGee and Molly or Jack Benny and Mary Livingstone. With radio ... you paint your own pictures (says this addict of our national radio system). We didn't get TV through western Canada till the early 50s. Once just before that a group of us Univ. students were travelling from Saskatoon through Christmas en route to a post-Christmas Christian/missionary/world concerns conference in Kansas when the bus made a late-evening stop at a roadhouse somewhere in n. Minnesota. There was some discussion of whether anyone would get off to stretch legs, but closeted and more or less comfortable under our coats as we were, no one seemed much interested ... ... but when someone went into the bar and came back to announce at the door of the bus that "They have TV!" ... ... you should have seen the (wingless) coats fly! ole joyful

Here we go again ... you know what I've been telling you: "Keep your eyes and ears open ... and you'll learn something new every day!". Well, almost every day. Yes, we used to have to get a licence to operate a radio ... I think that it was about $2.50 per year, at around 1940 when we got our first one. As Iva Mae said ... that was a substantial amount, in those days. For my first year's work, in 1953, I received the handsome sum of $1,900.00, I think. I don't remember whether it was a provincial situation, but think Federal, as they regulate how many radio and TV stations there can be, their location, power and issues over programming, etc. It continued for several years: sometimes we had one, sometimes not, I think. They did have inspectors to check who had one and who didn't, and there was a fine if you didn't have one when the inspector showed up. I don't recall how long it contiued, but I think not till 1946, when we moved to the Prairies ... and I'm pretty sure that we were never required to have one when we were there. I think that folks needed a wire strung outside to get short wave signals, but I think that we could get long wave signals from even distant places without one: nearLondon we used to listen to WJR, Detroit, WLW, Cincinnati, KMOX, St. Louis, WCKY, Schenectady - wrong: it's WGY, if I recall well. I can't figure you guys' surprise: you have to have a licence to put a car on the road or a boat in the water ... and to keep a dog (male) or ... well, it sounds like "itch" (female) - higher priced ... to keep a pistol .. also, to drive that car ...and to have a wife (well - you used to, for that one: still do ... but many don't bother ... sort of like "short-term memory", possibly?) ... and many people in Canada were complaining bitterly a while ago that they were going to have to get one to own a long gun! Now the (different ideology) government talks as though, after a huge expense to register them .... they're going to destroy the record. And there's now a rule in our city that one can be fined if one allows an auto to idle for over 5 min. - it was featured at an exhibit regarding "Earth Day" at the local library today! Anyone game to buy some shares in a company that builds starters for autos?? I must confess to an addiction, folks: to our national broadcaster, the Canadian Broadcasting Coporation at www.cbc.ca/ideas (interesting variety of ideas pursued), or /aih ("As It Happens" an hour and a half after dinnertime "News" weeknights, interviewing people closely associated with major issues currently in the news) or /tapestry, (an hour weekly dealing with various issues regarding spirituality). Plus almost 5 hours overnight of various interesting programs from half a dozen national broadcasters worldwide - a rich feast! Listen online ... and many of them are podcasted. Have a great week, everyone. ole joyful