"You could always propagate them sexually, from seed" Not really. As far as I know, if you propagate a hybrid rose from seed, you most likely will NOT get a true clone of the original rose; your seedling from seed is almost surely will be different from the rose you got the seed from. I guess that is the reason why the patent law forbids asexual propagation but it is silent about Âsexual propagation. This corn story is outrageous and bizarre. I haven't heard that! It is also surprising because hybrids-as I mentioned above - usually donÂt come true from seeds. But I admit I know nothing about the Âcloning potential of genetically engineered seeds. Nonetheless, a ban on using seed or pollen of a patented rose in order to create new cultivars would extremely slow down or make breeding of new varieties close to impossible except if the breeder uses old, out of patent specimens. I doubt that hybridizers are required to wait 20 years or more to get a pollen or seed to create a new rose. If you search roses genealogy on HMF, in most cases you will see the 'parentage' registered, namely the seed and the pollen 'parent' mentioned, provided the rose was bred subsequent to the time when precise information became available for the breeders as to how to ID with certainty the parents of their new and hopefully successful creations. I mention only one example. On HMF I just looked up MeillandÂs Bolero (2004, floribunda) that was bred by using the seeds of Kimono (1961) and Sharifa Asma (Ausreef). Sharifa Asma was released in 1989 and is still patented. It was certainly patented when the house of Meilland came out with Bolero, and they obviously had to start breeding Bolero well before the 2004 marketing. I seriously doubt that it was illegal to use SharifaÂs seeds in order to come up with a new hybrid. On the other hand, you can also notice that the parentage of the newest roses by Kordes, Tantau is "undisclosed", not does Austin reveal the bloodline of his newest varieties. I agree with Mgleason. If a retailer, wholesaler or nursery buys exclusive patent rights, it should make the rose available either by propagating the rose in question or allow other nurseries to propagate it. Diane made a good point by saying: "Talk to a hybridizer, see if that changes your mind". Others argued that the breeder would feel awful and cheated if an individual propagates his/her rose without paying royalties. I believe a breeder also wants his roses to be grown in as many gardens and in as many countries as possible and would feel just as bad and just as cheated if someone buys the exclusive right to market his rose but instead buries it. Jack Harkness, an outstanding breeder in his own right, argues that Âwe felt that that a holder of a new variety had some obligation to distribute it to his fellow rose growers, whether he charged for the stock or charged royalties . His comment was made regarding Peace. The Harkness company got two plants of Peace earlier as a present from the American distributor, namely from Robert Pyle. The Harknesses wanted to buy stock from MeillandÂs British agent (patent holder, I guess) who in turn informed them that his company had no stock to spare. So the Harkness firm propagated Peace from the plants they got from Pyle and when MeillandÂs British agent visited them, reports Harkness " I made a point of letting him see our stock of Peace, ready for sale at the same time as his, in 1947" As you can see, in the Harkness incident the issue was not even so critical as it is with Bear Creek aka J&P exclusives from KordesÂ, TantauÂs or otherÂs roses that were pulled from production after a very short period of time and are absolutely unavailable because access for propagation is denied for other US nurseries and import from Canadian nurseries are prohibited. In these cases those who have the specific rose should be able to propagate it or send cuttings to those who want that rose very much. I would penalize the holder of exclusive rights if the 'intent to sell' turns out to be intent to neglect or abuse the contract that gave this person or company exclusive rights. And I would like to see those appreciated who do everything that the specific rose does not become extinct.

Not everyone could think of something like that at least not me. Very good.

Great picture! I love how everyday things when photographed on their own, seem to take on a new life!

I guess I've been very lucky as I've never had mildew. Must that they're mostly outside in the fresh air, same thing with Lucerna which I know is usually a mildew magnet. I'm not sure I heard about Brad passing, might have if it was years ago and I've just forgotten. I obtained a plant of cane White Ice this summer and noticed this evening it is on the cover of a 2005 Begonian issue with hybridizing credit going to a Charles McGough. This name rings a small bell, do you know where he lives and anything about his hybrids? Caribbean King continues to amaze me with its size, strength and durability. Several have rooted in the ground thru drain holes and become very large, sprawling rhizomes rooting directly in the ground. Next spring I'll find a place in the ground for popenoei as I'm tired of moving it to ever-larger pots, I'll take a chance on freezes. I do love these big rhizomatous types, in spite of the room they require. Thanks, Russ