Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend's pet, but... I wouldn't necessarily blame the "cost overrun" solely on the vet.

Surely your friend realized the costs were mounting and the dog wasn't responding during this 4-year period. That was the time to become as educated as possible about the animal's problems in order to be able to make some tough health-care and financial decisions. If a vet has the impression or is directly told by a client that "everything should be done to save my pet", then many vets will do just that. In my experience, vets will be as up-front as you ask them to be (if not, maybe it's time to find another vet.)

When my elderly dog got even sicker last summer, the vet suggested that we do a bunch of (IMHO) invasive diagnostic tests and treatments (including biopsies, chemo, etc), even though she already had a pretty good idea of what was wrong based on symptoms, case history, and a simple blood glucose test. The biopsy alone was going to be several hundred dollars. I had done a lot of research online about the various possibilities/progneses of what might be going on, and told her that the dog had lived a long and happy life and that we did not want to stress her out unnecessarily or spend an exhorbitant amount of money - we just wanted her to be comfortable and have a reasonable quality of life for as long as possible, The vet looked at me in silence for a few moments, and then said, "Thank you for telling me that. I won't continue to present you with those kind of options." And we all went forward according to plan, and the dog's last 4-5 months were rigorous but quite wonderful.

Here are some statements that I use:
"How much will that cost and what is the likelihood that it will tell us anything (tests) or work (treatments)?"
"I'm concerned about the cost of these tests and treatments - are there any other options?"
"That's a lot of money. I'll need to think about it before going ahead. I'll call you in a few days."
"Even in a best-case scenario, what is the long-term prognosis for my pet?"
"What happens if we don't test or treat?"
and (obviously), "I can't afford that."

Susan

There are some people who want a vet to do every possible thing in an effort to save and prolong their pet's life.

I tend to look at the overall picture (age, health, likely prognosis), and weigh that against the costs. We are people of modest means, I cannot go broke for one of my pets, much as I love them.

One of my cats is older and sickly, and I have opted to not go forward with tests/procedures recommended by the vet because I don't feel they are in her best interest. In fact, I feel like the things that are being suggested may actually cause her more damage than doing nothing, which is the main reason I opt to do nothing. She is very happy at present and living a mostly normal life, I don't want to jeopardize that on a "what-if." At the same time, I see that the vet would be remiss in her job if she didn't present the options available. It's tough to be a good consumer of medical care, especially when it comes to pets who can't tell us what they want.

It all depends on the person and the situation. My cat got horrendously ill two summers ago with Hepatic Lipidosis, which can be fatal, but can also be treated with a lot of love and care. But it's also very expensive to treat. We ultimately ended up spending about $4000 on our cat -- there are some people that would never do that, but I'm very, very glad that we did. She's happy and healthy now, and we've gotten another two years with her so far (and hopefully at least a couple more) that we might not have otherwise gotten. BUT...we also had the money to spend. Many people do not.

Having said that, though, if the vet came to us with a diagnosis of something like...cancer, or some other almost assuredly fatal disease, I wouldn't just throw money away trying to prolong her life, although I would spend money to ensure that their last weeks or months are painfree and as happy as can be. I think some people just have such a hard time letting go, that they'll do anything to keep their animals around, regardless of whether or not that's in the best interests of the animal.

IMO, some vets are money grubbing and will try to guilt people into spending tons of money on hopeless situations, but many vets are pretty honest and don't try to push treatments that won't result in improved survival or quality of life for the animal. When in doubt, it's always best to seek a second opinion.

some vets WILL play on folks emotions to get more money. some, like the ones we use, will flat out tell you that it will be expensive and may not be worth it.

my mom had a golden retriever for 13 years. the last 6 years of his life he had ot take thyroid meds to control his weight, and he came down with cancer inthe last year of his life. we figure my mom spent well over 10k on him. did it prolong his life, yes a little. and those few months were worth it to her.

You have touched on a subject that really hits a raw nerve with me.

Numerous times I have posted my negative feelings about the veterinary profession. I have spent so much time, money and frustration needlessly because of complete stupidity on the part of vets who made completely incorrect diagnosis. I almost lost one of my dogs three times because of this, all while spending tons of money. I and all of my friends think I have a huge amount of patience, but one time I was so mad at a vet I almost put my cell phone through a plate glass window. Instead, I fell to my knees and cried.

Needless to say, I learned lots of lessons. I always put a date on when meds should be starting to show improvement, if things don't start to improve, I want to know why. My experience has been if a vet changes meds or diagnosis more than once, he/she probably does not know what is going on. I always consult with at least one or two other vets not involved to get their opinion. I also research meds and conditions to educate myself. This way of dealing with things has saved me lots of money and frustration.

I am blessed with a vet that I truly love (my 7th in 16 years). She knows very well what I am going to do when a situation comes up, and she can live with it. We do have our minor disagreements, but that is all.

I see the veterinary profession in general as one that is operating in ways that should be considered unacceptable. Don't get me wrong, there are good vets out there. But there are way to many that see their clients walking through their door as being an open wallet, when the only thing we want/need is an honest opinion about the condition of their pet.

Unfortunately, most people are at the mercy of their vet, it doesnÂt matter if he/she is right or wrong. I would not feel this way if my past vets would have simply said "IÂm sorry" for their mistakes, because I do realize that humans make mistakes. They just don't seem to be able to utter these words for some reason. Yes, my current vet says them, something I take huge comfort in.

I do agree that there are people who want everything possible done for their beloved pets, I am not one of them, so I can see the absurdity of the $26,000,00 price tag. I personally would have put the breaks on this project long before it got to this. But, this is an individual thing. How you deal with it is completely up to you.

SG

Something I find very ironic is that people spend that kind of money everyday on Boats, RV's, cars,motorcycles etc. and most people would say " good for them" or be green with envy. And yet some of us spend that money on an actual living thing such as a pet that gives back endless hours of pure joy and "some" people think that's too much to spend. Go figure?????

One thing I like about our vet is that he tells the truth about which treatments are worthwhile and lets us decide without pressure. We've been taking our pets to him for about 18 years.

Without specific details about what the vet did or did not do for the owner of this dog, it is completely unfair to judge his work or question the vet or the owners judgement

Cindyxeus, I don't understand that mentality, either.

One morning, while driving to work, I heard a radio program about people who had trouble managing their money. One family was lamenting about how they had got themselves into debt with a vacation home and big holidays. Just when they decided they needed to be more careful with their money, the family cat broke his leg. Rather than add the vet bill to their debt load, they had the cat euthanized.

That made me so mad I wanted to throw the radio out of the car!! In their situation, at the very least, I would have sold or rented out the vacation home. My dogs are part of the family...not some disposable consumer items.

My main issue with spending an exorbitant amount of money on vet procedures is that we seem to have transferred this "everything should be cured at any cost" mentality from ourselves to our animals. With people, it's one thing-- you can explain to an adult (or a child of a reasonable age) that they're going to have to endure painful testing, surgery, treatments that will make them violently sick, etc., BUT they stand a good chance of making a full recovery. An animal, however, has no concept of "this is for your own good and you'll be thankful later"-- they only know what's happening NOW.

Case in point-- my parents have a 11-year old beagle who's never really been the healthiest dog (hence, my parents have now sworn off purebred dogs entirely)... she's always had bouts of respiratory problems, skin issues, you name it, and no vet has ever been able to say exactly what's wrong-- one of those "she never seems to ___ at the vet's office, only at home" scenarios. Recently she started a prolonged bout of hacking and wheezing, so they took her to the vet... the vet couldn't pinpoint the problem upon exam, but speculated that she had some excess fluid buildup, so she prescribed (I think) a water pill and an antibiotic.

But the vet also suggested doing all sorts of biopsy-type, surgical/invasive testing to see exactly what's wrong ("she might have tumors, but we won't know for sure'" etc.). Now, this is an 11-year old beagle, who likely is an AWFUL anesthesia risk... what's the benefit of that?! Why subject the poor dog to surgery, with all the pain that entails?!?! And tell me, what's a realistic prognosis-- certainly not 100% or remotely close to it.

I absolutely wouldn't hesitate to approve a surgical procedure on our own healthy 3-year old shepherd mix if there were some sort of accident, or something that would virtually guarantee a complete recovery in a short amount of time. But beyond that, it seems downright inhumane to subject an animal to the prolonged suffering of an extensive medical procedure, because they have no way of seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. The only words I can think to describe such intentions is SELFISH and CRUEL, in a huge way.

Two words, pet insurance. We have insurance on our 6 year old Shepherd/Ridgeback cross. It has saved us thousands of dollars over the last few years. It costs us $18 a month.

It costs a little more per month for purebred animals though, because of the genetic issues attributed to different breeds. Example, newfoundlands are not covered for hip problems. If it was a NFLD/Border Collie mix, it would be covered for almost everything (usually). Mixed breeds are cheaper.

Wow, that cat situation is disgusting, fixing a broken leg is not even that expensive. Great example to set for their kids!! There was an interesting pet post on the financial forum a couple years ago, lots of differing opinions.

Here is a link that might be useful: Why to so many people let pets ruin their financial picture?

Spiritual Gardener, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I have been through many vets in the last 10 years before I was lucky enough to end up at the one I have now. I have been completely disgusted with some of the vets I've met, and the exorbitant number of tests they want to run from the get-go, rather than working with the process of elimination. Of course the latter wouldn't net them nearly as much money. Once we go in that direction, we don't go back.

I'm stressing right now because my regular vet, who sees my CRF cat every 3 months or so, is leaving the practice to have a baby and be a SAHM for a while. I hope (and believe) that the other vets in the practice have the same conservative approach that she does (and that my cat has thrived on for the past 2 years), but still I'm very worried about having to work with a new vet.

What a wonderful and thought provoking thread!
timbulb - What great advice! Who is your pet insurance provider - I might need some soon.

Given my past experience, I am always looking for the path of least resistance. One of my vets that I consult with will always ask me the same question: "Is the situation life threatening". This really puts things into
perspective, and we go from there.

One of my dogs, about 11, has had some elevated liver readings. Yesterday, vet called with new test results that indicated a reading that she is slightly uncomfortable with.

She suggested two things. One, is an ultra sound to see what is going on. The other, a liver supplement, followed by another test, which by the way is relatively inexpensive. I went with the supplement.

The ultra sound could cost around $1,300.00. This ainÂt gonna happen, and my vet knows it.

SG

SG, are you sure the ultrasound would cost that much? Our late Boxer had one last year, and it cost $175.

I am very fortunate to also have found a vet that is wonderful. He gives me all the information, costs associated with each option, what the long-term effect will be on my dog or cat, and then his recommendation.

My first dog was diagnosed with an enlarged heart 3 years ago, he went thru all the options, and then basically told me to let her enjoy her remaining time. That's what I did. She lived 2 more months as queen of the house, as usual, and told me when she had enough.

I feel very fortunate to have someone so good taking care of my furry kids.

Several years ago, my sis-in-law's little Chihuahua, Baby, had a seizure on a Saturday night.

The seizure lasted a long time, so SIL took Baby to an emergency clinic, where the "doctor" on duty told her that the dog needed some kind of heroic care, & she would have to leave the dog, as well as a $1000 deposit, & she could expect the bill to be around $1300.

When my SIL told him she had to talk to her husband before she spent that kind of money, he said, "Well you can think about it all you want, but if you don't do something, your dog's gonna die."

My brother told her to do what she had to do, & she was sitting in her car thinking about it when another woman walked out of the clinic, carrying her dog & sobbing.

SIL asked her what was wrong, & the lady said the vet had told her that her dog needed $1300 worth of work or it would die, & she didn't have the $1300.

so SIL told the lady her story, went home, gave Baby some honey & some chicken & rice, & took her to the vet on Monday.

& the dog's still out there in the country, living a life of luxury & ease.

If you break that down it's $540 bucks a month. Hard to say without knowing what was wrong with the dog and what quality of life he had if I would spend it or not. My Dobe's arthritis meds were over a hundred bucks a month. Then there was her thyroid meds on top of that. Don't recall what they cost. Non of that stuff is fixable but she had a good quality of life with it so yep it was worth every penny. With prescription meds the bill can run up in a hurry.

Lisa

ultra sound equipment varies alot. Many GP practices have them now but they may not have the gusto of one at a specialist center. Therefore the difference in prices. More expensive machines = more cost for the customer but they also mean clearer readings.

I have another dog that has other issues. A ultra-sound was recommended by my vet, who does not have the machine due to the cost. She set things up for an alternate practice to do one. This is where things started to go horribly wrong.

All of the arrangements were made with the clear understanding between me, my vet, and alternate vet that my dog was to have the ultra sound. When I got there, I was given the price for it ($1,300.00, which I was willing to live with), but told that it would not do any good. I asked what type of test vet had in mind, it was a combination of testing that would have cost about twice as much. I informed him that this was not going to happen until I could research the procedures. I also informed all involved that I was not happy and that this process put a strain on things with current vet who I love and adore.

After all of this, I discovered a completely different way of dealing with dogs situation, she has been fine for 9 months. My current vet did say she was sorry for the mix up. If she did not do this, I would have been extremely disappointed.

Getting to the cost of meds. My old girl Tara, a Shepard/Lab lived to be 14. She also had numerous health issues, especially the last three years that required numerous meds, plus she was on a special diet. All of this does add up, I figure I spent about $12,000.00 over the course of those years just in food and meds alone, but that was spread out over the course of her life, which was a good one until the last day. No suffering, she was able to do "dog stuff" until the end.

I am not an advocate of surgery or extensive testing but that's just me. I want my dogs to do "dog stuff", to me it's the reason they were born. When their quality of life starts to suffer, then I need to know if there is a easy way of fixing it. If there is not, then I proceed in the best way I can.

SG

I don't think all surgeries can be thrown into one big category. Some will make a young dog whole again, some make an old dog enjoy life again, some are so risky they just don't have enough long term promise. And some if you don't do that are simple fixes IMO are pretty much border line neglectful.

First of all, your veterinarian is NOT a financial planner. You do NOT want to take financial advise from someone who on average has $92,000 educational debt and will only make $61000 for several years. Notice that I said "educational debt" not school loans plus house payments plus car payments plus consumer debt. Nobody in their right minds would purposely go that much into debt for such a little return. Only to be called money grubbers.

Stepping down from my soapbox now.

As long as the vet is being perfectly honest about the entire situation- problem, treatment, possible outcomes, cost, quality of life- it is up to the owner to decide how s/he is going to spend his/her money as long as the client is fully educated. Some people will try anything and everything for just the slight possibility it will prolong their pet's life. Other's won't. But it's not for anyone else to judge.

I completely agree with everything you said Meghane, especially the part about "As long as etc."

That said. Take a look at my current vets schedule. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday she is open from 9a.m. to 1:00 p.m. and 3:00 to 6p.m. Wednesdays and Saturdays, 9 a.m. until noon. Keep in mind that aside from technicians, a small office staff and another vet that works only two days, she is the only vet in the practice AND she is always very busy AND clients, like me, simply love her. It is nothing unusual to call her office and have her answer the phone, she calculates her bills on a hand held calculator.

To me, this person has things in perspective as far as her abilities and what she is willing to do and I am willing to live with that because I have complete trust in her. When she sees clients, she is never rushed, she always personally returns phone calls.

Getting back to one of my original statements, I said that all people make mistakes and I do realize that. It does seem to me and lots of others that the words "IÂm sorry" should be included in all of the education vets receive. It would make for a far better experience for all involved when something goes wrong, and, would also improve business and good will not destroy it.

SG

My daughter gave me this kitten.Nothing speciel just a kitten.Asked the vet how much to have her fixed?almost $500. Went on line and found "Friends of Animals" price $65.00.Years ago I used them for my dog and they were great.Now that I'm a senior citizen this is a Godsend.Me and my kitty can grow really old togeather.

I have to weigh in here, as I have made a lot of decisons recently in my pet's lives.

1. Our dog Hooligan who went blind at the age of 8 due to SARDS, then later developed a brain tumor and bloody noses. My vet was pretty certain it was a brain tumor (we did xrays) but offered to take him to a nearby specialist for an MRI. It was pricey. At this point my dog was already blind and not really living a quality life. I decided to keep him comfortable, well fed and happy until he wasn't those things anymore. It was a really hard decision, but my vet was great. There are some old threads about this somewhere, but they are pretty old.

2. My cat Smokey, was recently diagnosed with a very large abdominal tumor. It kind of came up on us fast, and he declined rapidly. The vet suggested that it wasn't worth the testing, but it was available. At this point, he had already stopped eating, and wasn't doing well. We decided to put him to sleep because he had lived a long 10 years, and I couldn't see putting him through very invasive surgery in the condition he was in. I don't know if he would have lived with an ultrasound and surgery, but I feel that he wouldn't have.

3. My dog Hippo. She is almost 12. She just went in for her vaccines and a heartworm test. We also did a geriatric panel on her. She needs thyroid medicine and a Cushings test (yikes). We are going to do both. She has a great quality of life and still runs around like a puppy.

So, I think it depends on each individual animal and each case. I try to give my animals a respectful life, and a respectful death.

I do appreciate my vet offering everything, but not pushing everything. It puts the ball in my court, so to speak, and I really like to be the decision maker.

Where do you draw the line?
The age of the pet? Is it ok to spend lots on a very young one and not on one that is old and you have had for a very long time? Which one means more and deserves to live?

The illness? What if they have a chronic illness and will be on expensive medication for life? Or they need a very expensive operation? Or multiple operations? And if it is cancer, do you want your pet to go through chemo and radiation? Not just the cost in money but in pain and suffering.

How about diagnostic tests, if they are needed to find out what is wrong? What if the next test will give you the answer? At what point do you stop?

I know how the costs can add up especially when your pet is suffering from a mysterious ailment. First it is just a blood test, then an XRAY, then an biopsy, then more tests. Before you know it in a very short time, you have spent over $2000.

I think it is entirely up to the owner to decide how far they want to go. And you never know how far you are willing to go until you are faced with such a decision. I know personally that it is a very tough choice to make.
Clare

I used to get upset at how much money people spent on animals. But, it is their money and none of my business.

We owned horses for 20 years---if you think dogs/cats can be expensive-----Oh My!!!!!!

Horses are bigger and much less hardy----there are many simple things that can result in the death of a horse---a stomach ache is often a death knell, for instance. Feeding a pregnant mare the wrong kind of hay can abort a foal. And the list goes on.

We had a mare whom I discovered one fine june day with a wound on her leg so large, I thought someone had used a chain saw on her leg. The mare was down---not a good thing for a horse that is hurt---that is a precursor for the animal giving up life.

I got her up on her feet, called the vet(this was before cell phones---and in the pasture---so had to run back to the barn, get the truck, drive to the closest occupied house and get permission to make a long distance call.)

The vet came out and told us(wife had arrived) if we wanted to spend the money, the horse could be saved. Now, the vet knew us---and knew our financial situation---we regularly treated whatever was wrong ourselves to save money. Well, $1200 and three months later---three months of giving the mare antibiotic shots twice a day and rebandaging the leg once a day, the vet was right. That mare actually healed so well the scar was difficult to see.

We had the time---and could afford the money---plus a friend boarded the mare for free---spaced over that time. We did without some things, like fun and new clothes---but the whole family wanted to do it---and the most important thing was we had the expertise.

I had a friend who had a really expensive horse---a horse his daughter had ridden to a AQHA Western Riding World Championship---they were the best in the world that year. The horse was boarded at a very good trainers facility---his wife was the vet I mentioned above. That horse still got a case of colic---got so sick my friend had the horse med-evaced by helicopter to the facility at Kansas State University Veterinary School---and the horse still died.

So, we love our animals. I still cringe when I read about a person spending thousands of dollars on an animal, but I try not to be too judgemental.

first off my compassion to the man who lost the dog.

Yes I think its sick the vet was "playing"" him over for a sap! But there are a few clear cut reasons why the dog probably died at 11. 1 it was a purebred, bred probably in a bad breeders home/puppy mill, yorkies shouldn't die at 11. Mutts are healthier.

2 He fed the animal species wrong, its best to feed dogs like you would a gray wolf, this means raw meat bones organs. organs. It may not be nice but its natural and it will prolong the life of your pet. All intact dogs can hybridize freely with wolves/coyotes/foxes ( a terrible idea BTW) and ideally they should eat like them too. But sometimes this just isn't possible, if your elderly, got HIV, low income, or live somewhere where they don't allow it. In which case canned Innova Evo, Ziwi peak, wellness grain free is the way to go.

The best thing to do would be to learn from this, inform him he did everything right but that all animals die of something and he should put the animal first if the animal is in pain and suffering instead of what a money greedy vet tells him!.