Well said, Queen Laurie!! ;~)

A good vet, IMO, should welcome any new information regarding treatment of a pet and if he/she is a *really* good vet, they'll listen to an owner that is closely attuned to their pet.

I am one of those owners that always gets a second opinion......on my pets and myself. A good physician, or vet, would welcome any info the client may find regarding treatment or research data.........especially in the case of rare diseases.
As you mentioned, there is no way they can keep up with the ongoing research that is being done independently.

Networking can be a lifesaver for any and everyone.

I do find it funny that people expect anyone on the internet to diagnose an animal and prescribe treatment with the paucity of information that many posters provide. The last one, what we know is, there's a female spayed Yorkie, 8 years old, who coughs after exercise and licks her nose and the vet gave her some pills for heart disease and is that right. Well, there is no way, even with all the medical knowledge in the world, that one can say yes or no the "pills" are the right drug for the problem. We don't know the actual problem (no information regarding the physical exam results, any testing, etc were provided) or the prescribed solution (at least the name of the drug).

This doesn't happen all the time, and I hate to pick on the poster with the dog who probably doesn't know the rest of the information (I would blame the vet for not communicating with him/her in the first place). I just don't know what else to say to these people except "why don't you ask your vet- I'm sure they have a good reason for doing what they did and good vets don't mind the questions."

Which brings up my remark about vets needing communication classes. If what the OP told us was all s/he knew about the dog- she has heart disease and here are some pills- then the vet did a terrible job. Educating the primary caretaker- the owner- is the highest priority of any vet, IMHO. One cannot expect good treatment results, or even compliance, if the owners are given no reason to carry out the instructions. "Why should I give her pills- she seems fine except when running" is a perfectly reasonable question when the owner isn't properly educated. Which is what I suspect in this case. But we, as in the internet community, are not the ones to ask- the vet is.

On the other hand, there are a lot of good questions posted here. I can certainly understand that one would think one had all their questions answered by the vet and got home and thought, "wait a minute, didn't Molly down the street have the same problem and get a different drug" or whatever and want to know why. Obviously, not everyone has a vet text book at home or in vet school- you gotta find the answers somewhere. I'm just saying that the first person to ask is the vet, and I don't think that is happening sometimes. That was just my really long-winded way of saying it.

And I 100% agree that there is no vet, even the best one, who can keep up with all the information being produced. And that the internet is a good place to gather info to ask the vet about. I just think we should all be careful in our responses simply because we cannot know all the information in each case- we didn't do the PE, in many cases we don't have the test results, etc. I would hate to think someone took what was posted on some internet site (any site) as truth and changed or stopped treatment because of it and a pet was harmed. I know that nobody here wants that- we're all here to help as best as possible- sometimes that means suggesting another diagnosis, treatment, or method; other times all we can do is sympathize and hope that things will be OK.

Gosh, imagine how paranoid I'll get after my ethics class...

Vets, as a population, are not any smarter than anyone else - neither are doctors - they are simply educated in a specialty. I took many of my graduate courses within a medical school, and it would curl your hair to know how little real long-term education goes on there. Doctors and vets play a numbers game. Once they get out of school, they see common problems all the time and learn rote how to deal with the high probability things. Some make an effort to keep up on latest technology and treatments for less common ailments. Most can "look it up" when needed. A few are really gifted. A few do active research in vet or medical schools, and truly are up-to-date. You have to advocate for your own health and your pet's, or else you better hope that nothing ever happens to you that is out of the high probability range. Ask friends, ask other doctors, ask the internet - but asking can save your life.

Vets, doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs--- no-one is infallible. Someone on a forum might hit upon something that the "experts" missed.

I like to do a lot of research and reach my own conclusions. I come from a family of doctors (people doctors) and scientists. I always question my doctors and vets. If any one of them doesn't want to fully explain what's going on -- see ya around.

When my kitty was diagnosed with renal failure a couple of years ago, I went on the net for info. Someone on this very forum posted some great links to wonderful feline chronic renal failure sites. I did lots of research, mostly on the net, also read the chapters in my cat care books re: renal failure and asked cat people in my circle.

Once my cat got home from the hospital, the vet told me to start subcutaneous hydration, but I had a concern: the amount of fluid the vet wanted me to administer was at least FOUR TIMES what I was seeing as standard on various websites. My cat weighed about 5 pounds at the time (she's back up around 6, 7 was her max, she's a little one) AND had a heart murmer, and everything I read implied that giving her that much fluid could be lethal. When I voiced my concerns, the vet insisted that what he was telling me to do was appropriate treatment.

So, I called other vets for their input, but other vets were weary of speaking ill of another vet. I finally said to one vet "I'm disobeying veterinary orders" and she said "that's OK". I switched vets.

My then boyfriend thought I was being ridiculous: "you trust strangers on the internet more than you trust a trained veterinarian?!?". Well, yes and no. But I believe that I saved my kitty's life when I decided not to do as I was told by this "trained professional".

When my Paddy was diagnosed last year with Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia, I immediately started reading everything I could find on the internet about the diagnosis and treatment. Not because I wanted to necessarily question his advice, but because I wanted to understand more about the disease so I could have an intelligent conversation with him, and so I felt comfortable asking questions. Knowing what questions to ask really made me feel like I was taking some control over a situation that made me feel otherwise totally helpless.

He actually thanked me for doing some research, and once he realized that I wanted to know all the minute details (I'm an information junky, can't help it), he went much more in-depth about all the test results, etc.

This disease is not real common, so it helped me to be able to have others to "talk" to about it, since I've never known anyone personally who had a dog that had it. The board I found since is really helpful to see that what my vet recommended is the preferred treatment. It's just a confirmation of sorts, I guess. I'd never change any treatment without running it by the vet, but it is helpful to see what drugs, etc have helped other dogs in this situation, in case his current treatment stops working.

Information is a powerful tool, we just need to make sure we use it wisely.

Laura

Thanks Laurie for a very well written post. Other than a case where time/treatment is of the essence being well informed as well as being able to seperate the wheat from the chaff is no doubt the best course of action. This is even more crucial in my experience when it comes to the health and treatment of birds where veterinary has only in the last few years advanced some distance from the treatment of poultry but is still lightyears behind the advancements in animal science.

Does anyone remember how a lady up in Wyoming or Montana or Alberta or Manitoba was asking questions on THS about the symptoms her dog was having and the horrible diagnosis it was given? Sylvia (I believe) down in Texas read the posting and recognized the symptoms. Her dog had gone through the same thing and only a lucky thyroid test gave the info needed to change the diagnosis from a fatal disease to something easily treatable. She zipped off a post to the lady up north and prayed that she was fast enough. The lady in the north was waiting for a ride to town to put her dog down as it suffered horribly. Her neighbor was late in arriving, so she turned on the net one more time to see if there were more postings on her plea for advice. There was Sylvia's story. When she got to town, she asked the vet to just try a quick thyroid test. Sure enough, that was the problem. It is so rare in dogs that the vet may never see another instance. The lady up north went home with a dog saved from death by a well-meaning lady in Texas! Right here on THS! I think it may have been at the "Kitchen Table" forum, or maybe right here at "Pets."

Excellent thread. I always try to remember with Dr.s and veterinarians: "There is a reason they call it a PRACTICE".

Vets are just pet general practitioners and can't know everything. I believe it is my duty as a fur-mom to research everything.

This forum has been wonderful about giving input based on personal experience. It has also been great moral support. I do believe there are folks who post looking for a "cheap fix". The best we can do is give our input.

jerri

i agree with alot of the posts here, i dont think people asked medical questions here to avoid taking an animal to the vet, but rather to help them with research, look for alternatives, intelligent questions, second opinions, confirmations, and support.

unfortunately many vets just dont discuss enough or explain enough why they diagnosed this or explain how they concluded that. whats the function of the treatment and how it suppposedly works for the ailment.

in my opinion many vets are good with healthy animals who need shots and parasite control. But when it comes to a sick animal, too many vets are too slow to refer their clients to someone else who may be better equipped to test, diagnose, or treat an unfamiliar condition.

This is such a good thread and so informative i thought it should go around again.

Don't have a thing to add. Glad i found it.
vickie

This is a good thread and here's my story of why asking first might be a good idea.
My cat had crusty bumps on her chin. I'd never seen anything like it, so I took her to the vet, and it was cat acne (apparently pretty common.) Vet prescribes antibiotics (Clavamox) and some chin washing and change her bowls from plastic. Okay, but my cat has a reaction to the antibiotics and vomits all night and has to go back in and get Reglan and there's talk of bowel obtruction surgery! Luckily it was just a reaction to the antibiotic and she was fine after a few days.
But the first visit cost me 95$ and the second 75$, not to mention the miserable vomitting cat and the stress of thinking there was something seriously wrong.
So, in my case it would have been smart of me to have looked up and asked about the chin bumps before going to the vet. I imagine that home care would have cleared up the problem and certainly it would have been safe to wait a few days to see if it helped.

Hi, I'm a lurker from the garden forum. I've been lurking for almost a year now. I think this forum is excellent. I've read many posts over the last few months and in most cases you guys were able to convince someone to take their pet/stray/feral/etc to the vet when they might not have. In most cases your advice made the poster aware that the problem was more serious then they thought and warrented further examination by a vet. Maybe these people wouldn't have taken them to the vet otherwise. I think you guys deserve a pat on the back from all the pets you may have helped.

I don't think it is right that some posters think they can get away with a vet visit, because that is not right. But imagine all the information that is traded on this forum that may help people notice symptoms more quickly in their own pets, that they may have not notice. And get their pet diagnosed more quickly.

Lisa

Nancy!

What a memory you have!

It was Petuny (in Manitoba) at the Kitchen Table,
her dog was Ben.

Diagnosing is an art form. Human docs aren't always good at it and they have talking patients. My DD has celiac disease which is easily treated with a change in diet. Without the change she would die. She suffered for years and wasn't diagnosed and tested until she was 23 years old. We spent a fortune on docs and tests. You know how she was diagnosed? Because of a chance remark that I made to my DH's cousin at a family reunion. Apparently this is a genetic disease (runs in families) and when she heard that my DD had long thick eyelashes she asked if she had this disease. Then I started listing her symptoms. When I got home I called my DD and told her to see a doc and ask to be tested. Within 2 weeks she felt better than she ever had.
So now when one of my kids or my animals get sick I like to go to the docs/vets office prepared with as much info as possible.
Just my .02.

I haven't read this whole thing yet. I want to answer before I do. Drs/vets/everyone is human. Not everyone can know everything. I can't imagine working with patients that can't "talk" it drives me crazy and I am just giving the meds the vet gives me.

My mother died 10 years ago and got sick 17 years ago. The internet was not as popular then. She went to drs for 5 years and was diagnosed as mentally ill as well as a host of other things, even hospitalized due to the horrible meds that she was on. My SIL researched on line for months and figured out what she had. Finally brought her to the right place/specialist and it was confirmed. Unfortunately it was not curable and was very rare so that might not apply in all cases, but knowledge is power and I am glad at least for the last two years she was alive we knew what was really wrong and that I know and can keep on top of what is going on with treatments and research for what she had. If not for my SIL and the internet I KNOW we never would have known.

I think it is wonderful that so many share their experiences, both layman and Meghane or other vets that are on GW.

I'm glad I'm not the only one particular about vets ;)

The best vets are not insulted by being presented with information from outside sources or questioned regarding treatment because they're confident in their abilities and open-minded enough to know they can't do it all. In fact, a vet who is willing to admit "this is over my head," gets high marks from me.

I often see young vets (sorry Meghane) just out of school that get hung up with a superior attitude and it troubles me. I may not be a vet, but I do know an awful lot about breed-specific health issues and more than anyone about my personal dogs. A vet may be book smart, but not have the real-life experience that makes a vet truly knowing.

To me, it's all about being a team. It's taken me years (and an out-of-state move LOL) to finally find a great vet who is smart, down-to-earth and very experienced with my breed. But a trusting relationship is a two-way street and it's my responsibility to give her accurate and detailed information as well. I imagine most of the posters here would be considered dream clients for any vet LOL.

My friends and I have had too many personal experiences with vets over the years that ended in disaster or something close to it to blindly place our trust in any one vet. But many owners do - they never question anything because they either hold their vet in a god-like status or just don't want to know. Meghane mentioned that a poster's vet must not have explained a treatment well enough, but I think some of that responsbility has to fall on the client. It's a two-way street.

It amazes me when owners aren't proactive, like someone mentioned above. I did it once too, years ago with a highly-respected board-certified opthalmologist who made a misdiagnosis and then tried to cover it up instead of being honest. I called him on it and he wasn't used to that.

I get second opinions for anything out-of-the-ordinary and especially like dealing with teaching hospitals like Penn Vet.

I also believe that veterinary practices are first and foremost a "business" and they are there to help you with your pet but they also want to sell you their "goods and services".

Recently I went to my most-commonly-used vet and she gave me a $50.00 antibiotic for a small spot on his back. I returned it and said, "I'll try tetracycline first." She also wanted to give him Rimadyl - I told her that I already had some at home (which was true). She said, "Oh, then I'll just give you the dosage." Surprise, surprise !! she never gave me that dosage information. If she couldn't sell it to me she wasn't going to help me with the medicine.

To her credit though, she also tried to sell me a fungal medicine and I told her to rx it to WalMart - much cheaper. She did it without hesitation.

You need to educate yourself.

vicky