A truly excellent question.

Honestly, it is difficult to answer without more information about the project. What I mean is that a contract for painting a bedroom would be significantly different than one for an entire interior repaint from top to bottom. Your expectations also factor largely into what should go into a contract. If you could supply some more details it will be much easier to have an understanding of what you want done, and how you want it done.

Without that information...what I *can* tell you is that I have very strong feelings about "down payments"...and they are not popular with many of my fellow contractors.

I don't believe in down payments and have never asked for one from a residential customer. Won't take them if offered.
A truly professional contractor should have enough money to cover the start of their jobs. A good contract will include payment only after the customer has seen some progress. If the scope of work is large then there will be payments along the way.

Contractors who finance ongoing jobs by landing new ones and getting money up front may actually be good at their trade...but they are horrible at business and do their customers a great injustice.

So give us some more info on what you need...and just don't ever pay money up front.

Vicky,

Email me for some practical advice.

Michael

Brushworks, I hope you'll post with your advice. I'm going to hire someone in the Spring to paint my complete interior home including one of those ubiquitous 2 storey entrances and the few odd trim peices and front door on my full brick exterior home.

I also hope others respond. this is the first time I'm hiring professionals as I've gotten a little too old to do all this painting. I find it a scary proposal as I'm picky and have always done it myself.

Sky

A truly professional contractor does not ask for down payments to finance their business operations. They ask for down payments for protection. If they get stiffed in the end, at least they got something in the beginning. It's just a good business practice. That said, I don't ask for down payments either, but that's because I'm a horrible businessman. As contractors we should all be getting down payments because it's just smart. I think when all your work comes from referrals though, the chance of getting stiffed is pretty small.

I think the best thing you can do as a homeowner looking for a painter is find a friend that has used a painter and get his name. Using the yellow pages, internet, newspaper, etc is really a crapshoot. If you don't have friends that have used painters, then hit the local paint store for some references. I'm not talking about the big box stores, but stores like Sherwin Williams, ICI and your local Benjamin Moore supplier will have lists of good painters that pay their bills and buy a lot of paint and have been in business for a while.

What Paintguy says, and more.

A contract is a binding agreement between two parties. One party, the reliable, dependable painter promises to execute the contract according to specifications. The other party, the buyer promises to execute the contract in form of payment. Downpayments are not a sinful word. Neither is a fair and equitable profit in that contract.

It's rare that you have to be bothered with worry when interviewing and hiring a local painting contractor who has served the community well. Check around. There are many!

My last in-house painting project was $100,013.00. I would have cheated myself, my customer AND my company if I had taken that responsibility without a downpayment.

Use common sense when making a buying decision. If you have the perception that all contractors are on the take, do it yourself. *S*

Michael

I don't really have any problem with giving a downpayment. I would actually be suprised to not be asked for one, especially since painting involves the purchase of materials up-front.

What I'm wondering about, are more practical issues to do with the process. For instance, some of the things going through my mind:

1) Would it be better to hire someone that has a large crew, rather than a single-person? (Pros/Cons of small vs.large)

2) If I do hire someone with a crew, how do I know the specific persons who work on my project are going to be good painters?

3) When repainting over old paint, what prep work should I ask for?

4) What should I ask for in terms of coats put on? Primer + 2 coats?

5) Should I specify spraying or rolling, or just let the painter decide? Which is best (house is not new construction, but is empty of furniture)?

6) Would it be normal for the homeowner to specify products, such as what brand of paint?

7) Does the homeowner or the painter usually purchase the paint? Is one or the other better-why?

8) If I want a well-done lasting paint job, are there certain things that perhaps not all painters might do, but that would be a good idea to ask them to do (or to ask them in an interview if they do), either in terms of how they prep, application, products, etc?

9) What things might I do as a homeowner, to prep for painting to save costs? (I'm planning to remove all light fixtures and electric outlet covers, for instance)--any other timesaver/costsaver things I may do to save the cost of prep time?

10) Is there anything that would constitute a "bad" painting practice, that would be a "red flag" to watch for in interviewing?

I haven't been able to find any painter references from friends, though I have gotten some reference lists from some of the better paint stores in my area. Hopefully choosing someone from these lists, and getting references will help. Still, being relatively inexperienced with painting or hiring painters, it would be nice to have a better understanding of what good practices are. What methods distinguish a really great painter from a moderate or not-so-great one. As some of you have stated, references are going to be key.

1) Would it be better to hire someone that has a large crew, rather than a single-person? (Pros/Cons of small vs.large)

It depends on the size of the project and the expected time of completion. I'm a perfectionist so I would rather paint alone if time allows. On large projects with a deadline, of course I include one or more to work with me.

2) If I do hire someone with a crew, how do I know the specific persons who work on my project are going to be good painters?

Ask for references where that crew has worked, and then call each one. Ask them about the crew's courtesy, respect and job performance. Ask them if the crew cleaned up at the end of each work day.

3) When repainting over old paint, what prep work should I ask for?

Your walls have not been painted in 17 years. I would include washing areas where hands, food, chemicals and pets have come in contact with surfaces. I would follow that with a light sanding to remove any dust nibs or other "boogers", then primer to seal and prepare the surfaces for a good, clean adhesion. Why skip primer on a project this size? It would make no sense.

4) What should I ask for in terms of coats put on? Primer + 2 coats?

Primer and two coats. Require that from each painter so they are quoting on an equal basis.

5) Should I specify spraying or rolling, or just let the painter decide? Which is best (house is not new construction, but is empty of furniture)?

Spraying in a house that has hardwood floors, windows, carpeting etc., will require a very careful spray painter who will have to mask and or seal off rooms not being painted. Otherwise, you'll be cleaning over spray for years to come.

6) Would it be normal for the homeowner to specify products, such as what brand of paint?

I don't have any objection to that, as long as it's of the highest quality and if I'm picking it up, it must be local.

7) Does the homeowner or the painter usually purchase the paint? Is one or the other better-why?

The paint is the least expensive part of the job. What you will save by buying it yourself will buy dinner for you and your spouse at Olive Garden...with no wine.

8) If I want a well-done lasting paint job, are there certain things that perhaps not all painters might do, but that would be a good idea to ask them to do (or to ask them in an interview if they do), either in terms of how they prep, application, products, etc?

Lack of preparation is the most obvious failure. Why? There are many lazy painters out there. Don't let them be your accountant by helping you save money by avoiding superior preparation. Tell them you expect their professional best effort.

9) What things might I do as a homeowner, to prep for painting to save costs? (I'm planning to remove all light fixtures and electric outlet covers, for instance)--any other timesaver/costsaver things I may do to save the cost of prep time?

Those are good things to do. Wash the walls where body oils(hand prints), cooking spatters, pet dander and other assorted dirt may have gathered. Bathrooms must be inspected for hairspray on walls. Paint and hairspray are a failing team. Also, check for mold and or mildew on walls in kitchen or bath. Remove it.

10) Is there anything that would constitute a "bad" painting practice, that would be a "red flag" to watch for in interviewing?

Yup. Using low end products. A painter who doesn't listen to you or appreciate your likes and dislikes. A painter who is uninsured, lacks worker's compensation coverage and is not registered to work in your community.

I wish I lived close. I would spec the job and supervise it for you.:)

Michael

very informative thread. thanks everyone for your advice!

(not looking for a painter now, as i'm painting the interior, but further down the road, will probably hire someone to paint the exterior, so the advice would still be applicable!)

vickyw,

You have asked the perfect questions I think to provide any homeowner with a guide for selecting a painting contractor. Michael has given perfect answers.

The only thing I would add is that some of the big boys with huge crews are business machines. They have marketing in place to generate mass amounts of leads and sales people that are trained to close those leads. The quality of their paint jobs is way down on their list of things that are important. They may have 1 or 2 painters working full time just fixing all the screw ups and addressing complaints by previous customers but the machine doesn't care because they are selling their work at such a high rate it can easily be absorbed. You may end up paying $80 per hour for those painters when a small 1 or 2 man shop can deliver a much higher level of quality at $45 per hour. I'm not saying that all big shops are like that but they are out there. I prefer small shops to be honest. It's really the reason I'm terrified to hire anyone....my theory is the bigger you get the more your quality goes down. Nobody I hire will be as good as me. That I think is the attitude of a lot of one man painters. Good luck!

Thanks, everyone for the good advice. I've got a few people coming out to give me bids in the next few days, so hopefully one of them will be "the one."

Michael, I wish you were closer too--you always have such great advice on the forum. Thanks for all your help with this.

I'll post back if any new questions arise after talking with the painters.