We will be starting our build soon. We have been pricing factory finished cabinets as have read that the aluminum oxide finish is superior to custom finishes.
We are waiting for our builder to show us samples of his work before we make any decisions, which would be based on price AND quality!
We would be willing to forego the factory finish in exchange for a better price. That would get us in the door, but if word of mouth is that the service and follow up is poor we'd pass on the good price!

The bonus of CUSTOM is getting to use every inch of your kitchen. That was the number one reason I chose my cabinet maker. With that, I expected attention to detail and making certain we used every inch. Price was a consideration. However I knew I could have found a less expensive option, but not custom.

Through the design process I tried to cover every detail and often times had to press my cabinet maker to perform. I should have known this was the writing on the wall! My cabinets were installed today and ANY place I didn't cover EVERY DETAIL my cabinet maker dropped the ball and made mistakes. Extremely aggravating after all this process to not get EXACTLY what I asked for and specified. I would pay anything for excellent execution. As it is, the only satisfaction I might get is when it's time to pay my balance. I will demand compensation, but I'd MUCH PREFER to have the product I paid for to begin with!

Hope this helps you.

First we got a few recommendations from neighbors. We met with each one and the prices were close, however, one cabinetmaker was very conventional in his ideas and basically planned out the same that HD did.

The one we ended up choosing "thought out of the box" (I hate using cliche's), and had wonderful suggestions. Small details, like adding a bit of drywall to a half wall to make just a little longer to fit in an extra cabinet.
He listened to what we would be comfortable with and modified things. For instance, DH and I didn't want to have to open both pantry doors to pull out the shelf every time we wanted a cereal box. He created shelves for us with low fronts that we can simply lift things over with one hand. Just a small detail, but a great suggestion for us. We saw his work and not only was it excellent, but his past customers raved about how pleasant he was to work with.

He also came back numerous evenings with many different stains to show us and never rushed us, always telling us how happy he wants us to be with the final product.

He was honest. His time frames were realistic and he took such pride in his work. He even pointed out, rather than cover up, mistakes. For example, one of his helpers drilled the hole for a knob in the middle of a door, rather than in the corner. Rather than patch it up without telling me, which many contractors do, he showed it to me and asked if I wanted a whole new door, if it would be O.K. for him to patch it and flip it upside down. I went with the patch and he did a fantastic job.

When the job was finished he came back a couple of times to touch up minutia that we had found (a minor scratch or ding), and never put us off, even after he received final payment!

Now I rave about him to others. This type of workmanship, coupled with impeccable customer service is a dying breed! If you practice as he does, your business will be booming!!!

Ok so far....

Emily:UV Cured finish, Price, product and customer service reputation

Shermstead: Efficiency of space, and ability to get all options on details,over promised under delivered.....

Shermstead I wonder since you mentioned that, how detailed were the drawings that you received? Were all the details reviewed with drawings and samples signed off on? Seems that miscommunication and non-communication was the culprit. Do you feel that more detailed drawings and samples BEFORE the project started would have covered everything?

Susan 4664: Excellent References, Design skills,LISTENED to what you wanted instead of told you what you need,honesty,customer service. Sounds like you got a real winner with this shop owner. That is awesome.

I'd just like to chime in that this is an excellent post ... I'm glad to hear that the custom shop owners are paying attention to the customer! We got a bid from a local guy (not so much a cabinet shop as a furniture maker who also does kitchen cabinetry) and despite having given him a figure in advance that we indicated was an example of a price we could NOT afford to pay (no miscommunication, we made that crystal clear) ... what did he come in with? The EXACT figure I'd given him as a non-starter, which was roughly twice what we ended up paying for a very good semi-custom line in the end. I felt that both of us had wasted our time on the proposal and sketches and I would have appreciated it more if he'd said upfront that he thought his number would be high (instead, he said "let me bid the job -- you might be surprised.")

The pros for us would have been having them both built precisely to fit and built locally, plus the flexibility of being able to tweak the layout in non-standard ways. Another plus: what I'm sure would have been gorgeous solid wood cabinetry and attention to detail and fit, etc. Also important, an understanding by this cabinetmaker of the climate conditions of our setting (lots of humidity in summer, very dry in winter) since he lives here, too. Cons: the biggest one was price, another was finish (he only offered a rubbed tung oil finish since he didn't have equipment for catalyzed finishes, etc., and I had real qualms about the maintenance of that in a hard-working kitchen. Also, the shelves would have been solid wood, also oiled finish. I was worried about that.

I think he's not really the kind of "custom cabinet shop" you all are talking about, since he works alone and mostly builds actual furniture, but it was a discouraging experience. We allowed him to bid (at his request -- I didn't ask him to, but he was at the house to do some other work and asked to bid on the kitchen after I mentioned we would be redoing it) because I'd read so many posts here about how custom cabinetmakers might be the same cost or even LESS than semi-custom stuff. It was a discouraging enough experience that I didn't pursue any other "custom" shops for bids. I wish I'd known of some online resource (a listing with some sort of ranking of pricing, qualifications, local references, etc.) for local shops -- is there such a thing?

I loved our kitchen cabinet shop. What I really liked about it was I could choose any color of BM paint that I wanted on the cabinets. I also like seeing them made. I could go to shop and they would say "oh there is your pantry, there is your island etc." The shop was right there in the design area. I also was super happy when they came out and templeted the layout on our plywood floors when the kitchen walls went up. That was a great visual. We actually made some big changes at that time. I moved refrig to one side and put pantry and glass cabinet area one opposite wall. They are a very hands on firm.

I used a local cabinet shop after much searching and here are my answers:

I chose this company because they had been in business a long time, were family run, had lots of thier product on the floor, had a HUGE portfolio, were more than willing to show me cabinets they were currently building in the shop, and came to my house several times -- first just to talk and then to propose and revise a design.

I liked them because after I chose them they contintued to to work with me, challenged some of my assumptions and worked with well with my contractor. They also made a key change to address an unknown site condtion.

AND all of their referecenes talked about how they delivered quaility product on time. On the day promised.
Which is exactly what they did for me.

Finally they stopped by several weeks after installation to see if I was happy and how it all looked! Which really demonstatred their pride of craftmanship.

When you asked ---What REALLY matters? Professionalism? Options? Price? Value? Warranty? Design abilities? Organization? Detailed proposals and contracts? Clean job site? Years in business? Trade associations? Portfolio? References? Finish? Construction style? Etc? ---I must say all of that is what matters - you have to offer all of that, you cant untangle it. Good product and bad service ends up diminshing the product. All the good service in the world does not make up for less than good prouduct. And in the end you want to know you paid a fair price -- it does not need to be cheap just fair.

hope this helps. I loved working with the local cabinet shop, my expierence was excellent -- they made sure I used every inch of my very old Victorian nook and cranny little kitchen, they produced quaility, on time and on budget. And I had very little agita -- A great thing!

I'll chime in here from a different perspective... what I will look for when comparing cabinet shops vs. semi-custom cabinets. I'll be doing a complete gut/remodel in my next home in a few years. I've learned alot on this forum and will learn even more by then. Given that I would look for:
1. A design process that demonstrates a respect for my input.
2. Someone with the knowledge to improve upon my vision and the tact to tell me when I'm planning the unrealistic.
3. Options that aren't cookie cutter but will work for my lifestyle
4. Availability, communication, and honesty
5. Pride of workmanship
6. Follow through... a person who stands behind their word.
7. Fair pricing
I, like many others, dream of the day I can build my forever kitchen. There will be years of planning, lurking, sketching, and agonizing over the decisions that make it your personal space. A reflection of what your home is. I'll do the best I can within whatever budget I have... and then some I'm sure. Hope this gives you some insight into the minds and hearts of the kitchen obsessed!

CTlady:

(Thanks! We have literally several hundred shops working together on this.)
Cons--Owner didnt listen and wasted your time and his,poor finish options, price, overbuilt(furniture grade)

Pros- Was looking for maximizing space, Local business,tweaking for something special,quality materials, humidity concerns,

You said".....I'd read so many posts here about how custom cabinetmakers might be the same cost or even LESS than semi-custom stuff...."

WARNING: Custom cabinetry bids that costs less than stock or semi custom should set off bells and red flags. Due to the exorbitant operational costs of a "LEGAL" shop in the US custom cabinetry under no circumstances should costs less than "off the shelf or semi custom" The custom man is either a non professional with low business skills and no insurance who will more than likely be behind, and not be around if you have any issues down the road or the retail center you went to was way overpriced.

You said".....I wish I'd known of some online resource (a listing with some sort of ranking of pricing, qualifications, local references, etc.) for local shops -- is there such a thing?..."

We are working on putting this together right now. In fact, this is part of the research we are doing to create it.

paddyTC:
Options especially finish,excellent communication and customer support, flexibility in design

suselana:Long established,big portfolio, shop visits, excellent references, communication(listened and made suggestions a critical one in fact), prompt, pride in craftsmanship and customer satisfaction, maximized space, made you comfortable throughout

You said"......And in the end you want to know you paid a fair price -- it does not need to be cheap just fair...." I completely agree that all I listed was important. In essence you were looking for and received an all around balanced, pleasant and reliable business exchange. Every one was happy. That is awesome!

Oh nice post remodelfla:
This statement says leaps and bounds about the importance of respecting the consumer..... "Hope this gives you some insight into the minds and hearts of the kitchen obsessed!"....... You bring up an excellent point us owners rarely talk about. The emotional bond you have with the project!! Definitely something we should be thinking about all the time. We as owners do this for a living every day but for the consumer it is a huge decision and you get very attached. Definitely need to remember to respect how much you have put into this project. Thanks

1. A design process that demonstrates a respect for my input.
2. Someone with the knowledge to improve upon my vision and the tact to tell me when I'm planning the unrealistic.
3. Options that aren't cookie cutter but will work for my lifestyle
4. Availability, communication, and honesty
5. Pride of workmanship
6. Follow through... a person who stands behind their word.
7. Fair pricing

To all reading this. I will be compiling the list of responses to this thread and sending them out to hundreds of custom cabinetmakers around the country. If you have something to say good or bad here is an excellent opportunity to have your words actually meet the eyes and ears of those who should be listening and seeing. Thanks again for taking the time to respond and help us help you. Also a good review for other homeowners on what they should be thinking about when talking with someone on an upcoming project.

I recently went with a custom cabinet maker after bad experiences with two KDs. Working with him was a delightful experience for a variety of reasons. First, I got exactly the cabinets I wanted without having to compromise based on what a manufacturer had to offer. Second, and perhaps even more importantly, I got those perfect cabinets for less than half the cost of the "semi-custom" ones ($17,500 vs $38,500). His were better made, too.

I sent him one of the better versions of the last KD's drawings with comments about the many things I wanted changed. He worked up a price for me based on that initial information and, despite numerous tweaks and changes to the drawings, he never deviated from that initial quote. Even after the install, when I asked him to do some extra things, fully expecting to be charged for them, he wouldn't charge me anything more.

As someone else mentioned, he pointed out mistakes to me instead of trying to hide them. One he asked if I would accept a fix (I did, and it was perfect), and the others, he told me he was changing (e.g., a drilling mistake; a broom closet door that he said was bowing, even tho I couldn't tell).

My friend who recommended him to me called him five years after her cabinets were installed to inquire about how she could fix the finish on the sink cabinet where water spots had formed. He came to look at the problem and ended up removing all her doors and drawer fronts to refinish them. She didn't request this and didn't think it was really necessary, but he insisted because refinishing the one door would make it not match exactly. This kind of "standing by your product" is above and beyond, but incredibly appreciated.

I have repeated this story and the many above and beyond things he has done for us. I will continue to recommend him for this and other reasons. Several friends are considering using him.

He had faults (e.g., he was NOT good at estimating when things would be ready; he was sometimes hard to get in touch with), but those were easy to overlook in the big picture. He is an incredibly skilled craftsman, but he is also honest and kind and pleasant to work with.

My requirements are that:
1. PEOPLE HAVE INTEGRITY, ARE TRUTHFUL, AND USE QUALITY MATERIALS
2. PRICE & PRICING FORMULA IS FAIR FOR ALL CUSTOMERS: pricing cabinets should be fair and not be reduced to a subjective formula, i.e., "10% the value of your home" or such nonsense. This is criminal in my book. It's not "what the market can bear" pricing that is fair. I TRULY BELIEVE THAT IS CABINET MAKERS PRICED CABINETS MORE FAIRLY THAN THEY DO NOW SO THAT THE AVERAGE HOME OWNER COULD "DO THE MATH" AND KNOW WHAT "X" CABINET WOULD COST TO BUY OR HAVE INSTALLED, THEN MORE KITCHENS WOULD BE REDONE. There would be so much business that you could not keep up. But no, NOT ONE CUSTOM CABINET/ OR SMALLER SHOP I WENT TO PRICED FAIRLY. ALL PRICING WAS SUBJECTIVE AND CONVOLUTED. THEY WERE SIZING UP MY BANK ACCOUNT BASED ON HOW LARGE OF A HOME I HAVE.

3. TALENT & PRIDE = QUALITY PRODUCT

4. SERVICE

In a nutshell, I, too, went with the guy that had been in business for a long time and had a HUGE portfolio. He was not organized with that portfolio and I even offered to organize his thousands of photos and put them online! THIS is how impressed I was about his work. Furthermore, my bro is a builder and cousin is a builder here in Jax and used this guy's shop before. MY SISTER's kitchen was done by this guy two years earlier. I was very confident with his talent. I'll bet I went to his shop over half a dozen times just to see his work because they made FURNITURE, these HUGE phenomenal stained glass windows for a church in D.C., pulpits, GORGEOUS entertainment systems, etc. This guy's bread and butter works were affordable, custom cabinets with beautiful paint techniques. His work was like buying Tommy Bahamas cabinets by Lexington for half price.

THAT being said, when I hired him, I had my ducks in a row and contract very detailed. I'm not a kid, nor am inexperienced in business. I KNOW WHAT I'M DOING. MY KITCHEN WAS DESIGNED AND NOT COMPLICATED. My problems stemmed because he just flat out lost his talent; over 80% of his workers had QUIT and he did not tell me. He later told me he had spent my $10K he had for work so far and he was left to do my kitchen himself. And it was a crap shoot! He didn't do ONE, SINGLE CABINET CORRECTLY. NOT ONE. AND HE LIED CONSTANTLY. He mis-measured, no appliances fit, installed shoddy and unleveled, mis-ordered the door profile, and made me madder than I have EVER been in my 49 years of living. I HAVE NEVER, EVER DEALT WITH SUCH A NICE, BELIEVABLE LIAR.

I trusted him and he $crewed us. We have had to have 30+ doors reordered because of all of the mis-measurements, etc. I am almost three years into this fiasco and got motivated to get back to it. I went to install two drawer fronts last month and they were 1" too short. I'm going to have to reorder two drawers more. It's like a case of never-ending-BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The end of this story is CabFiascoGuy changed his inc.'s name before our court case came up. He sued, we countered, I won but got nothing because of how crappy our laws are. The State of Florida allowed a thief to steal $10,000 of our money. We've put over $38,000 into them trying to FIX them. I just wish I had gutted everything and started over. It would have been CHEAPER. But no, I thought we could work this out and I had our granite installed so I'm now stuck for many years. I have a horrible ordeal detailed here on garden web.

What a can of worms you opened this morning. I think Ill work on these cabinets today. IÂd like to be done before I hit the three year anniversary of when they were installed. I need to re-order two drawer fronts tomorrowÂ.

I guess to Sherilynn's point, if you go with a custom shop, how can you be GUARANTEED that you are going to end up with what you contracted for. At any time, the custom place could go out of business, change owners, lose their most talented cabinetmakers. The "odds are" better that a nationally recognized cabinet company is not going out of business overnight(although I know it can happen). I also think people believe they may have more "leverage" with a large company if something does go wrong. I know this may not be accurate, but I think it is the perception. I think this makes people hesitant to go with a custom cabinet maker. Also, do all custom cabinet shops tend to have designers, or is it the cabinet maker that's doing the design? That would be a deciding factor for me. Aside from the benefit of being able to use every inch of available space and custom stains/paints, I'm interested in hearing why you think people should go with a custom shop over a nationally recognized company. Thanks

sherilynn... where in Fl. are you located? What happened to you is criminal and i"m sorry for your heartache. I'm in Broward County and will be looking at custom cabinet makers in about 3 years when I move. I want to make sure I steer clear of your cabinet maker. It's my understanding that many "custom" shops just build the boxes and then order doors through Conestoga, Scherrs, or similar companies. If that's so... I would have to pose this question. If one has the ability to efficiently plan and measure a layout, then would Scherrs; who (from what I've read) will do just about any option you want, from making the base cabs any height, unlimited door profiles, stains, etc. be just as good as going custom made?