DH and I were very strict parents, and stood by each other. And yes we can trust the kids without stealing. Teens do tend to be dramatic (gets them their way). Are you doing anything wrong, probably not, you just don't hear from other parents about their drama. We've had to kick one out (lazy, and disrespectful to his sister), one was into drugs (luckily not badly, and was able to kick the habit without intervention), the other has been "perfect" thus far, mind you that does not mean no drama, life revolves around her - or so she thinks it should. Now do they follow the rules. To a point. WHy do you think the 21 year old was kicked out? Are their chores "ALWAYS" done on time? NO, "OFTEN", NO, Sometimes? Maybe. What can I tell you...if you're leading by example, they will come around, my "druggie" daughter is now 25, and a really good mother, (no not married, but still with the father!!), and often comes to me, the MEAN MOTHER for advice. That is a compliment. A teenagers job is to test the waters, think of it this way, if they were GREAT KIDS that never irritated you, you'd want them to "SIVER" live with you forever!!!

Vickey-MN

My situation is very similiar to yours. I have two older SD, and one bio daughter, the younger two live with us full time. The oldest SD moved out when she was 17, and has not talked with us since. The middle girl is a good person that abuses drugs to fit in. She has been in therapy for a while now. My youngest is 10, and so far is very good, but her teen years are just ahead.

We definitely cannot trust our kids home alone, but a lot of the time we have no choice. We both work and there is summer vacation. I hear those people who say 'teens are great you can leave them for a while', not us. I would never think of doing the things that our girls do to us, to my parents. I never did. I am just truely greatful that my husband and I agree on not having any more, I mentally could not take it.

I really don't have any advice since I, myself, am just going through it (unsuccessfully) i might add, but you do have all my empathy. I am so sick of all the parents out there who never talk about their kids realistically, that makes me uncomfortable talking about the realities of my kids. So I was greatful to find someone like your self who is dealing with the disappointment I feel.

If I find the answers to our dilemma, I will be sure and clue you in too.

Hmmm. My teens are great (not perfect!), I tell them so all the time. They seem to make an effort to live up to my positive expectations.

WOW. Hey thanks Barnmom. I am so glad your teens are just 'peaches and cream', you must be the greatest parent on earth...thanks for sharing, or should I say rubbing our noses in your pseudo-reality. Whatever.

All I'm saying is that kids will live up to expectation, or down.

Anything can happen, so far so good.

Thank you chloemichelle for your insight. I have often heard that our children are not our creations but rather they pass through us. So much of them is decided before they are born. I see a few things in my son that he could have only gotten from his bio-father and he has not been with him for 15 years and even then it was briefly as a toddler. Thank you for telling me about your life. I just had a similar conversation with a beautiful woman who lives in my neighborhood. She is so sweet and loving. SHe has money and a happy home and seems to be dealing with the same teenages dramatics that I am and you have ;O) I do believe that many parents are not "plugged in" to their children's lives as they think they are. The three younger children will tell you that I am a good Mom. They recognize fully their mistakes, but it doesn;t stop them from repeating them. It is not that they are bad...like I said...but rather get caught up in the moment and don't make the best decisions. Having three teenagers I get a front page view of most of the lives in our upp middle class neighborhood and it is amazing to see what the kids are doing right under the parent's noses. Because I see so much, it makes me keep hawk eyes on my kids....hence...why they get caught...and why they are driving me crazy. My older SD although strong-willed..she is doing OK...just not really in our lives because we don't agree with her "call only when you want something" ways. The next oldest is a good girl, but she wants so desperately to make friends that she will break all the rules to be accepted. The other is the most popular kid in his grade, Varsity in three sports and they are both heading for college. My sadness is more that they seem very selfish and that we are the enemy. I don;t tell them what they want to hear...I tell them what they need to hear.... Someone I know has a daughter that is now paralyzed from the neck down because her mom was her friend and trusted her completely. The parents were separated because of the difference in parenting when the daughter was in a car accident with three boys smoking pot. A fate I pray no one should learn. Chloemichelle, you are right. My husband is one of three and his mother is like Edith Bunker. She is nothing but kisses, hugs and positive talk. Her oldest is an alcoholic with no driver;s license since he was 17 (now 53). Her middle son died in jail from cirrhosis at 29 and my husband (allbeit a wonderful man NOW) put her through year's of hell living the wild life into his 20's. The only guilt she should have is not beating them all!!! I love my children and they know it...I just get really frustrated when you cook, clean and run them around, hand out $10 bills like lollipops and when you ask for some small courtesy such as keeping strangers out of your house when you are at work... it is often very thankless as a parent. That is some days. Other days, I feel extremely proud of their character. They are well-liked and well mannered so I can;t be all that bad. You, chloemichelle must have done a good job or they wouldn't have all turned out well afterall.... Thank you for letting me vent ;O)

Barnmom - Apparently you think we had dismel expectations for our kids. Thats cool, I can dig a close minded, ignorant person like you, makes the world go 'round. NEWSFLASH: Sometimes it has nothing to do with expectations and everything to do with 'you will see what you want to see'. Either way, so glad you are happy with your kids. Makes me warm and fuzzy in side.

usetoknowitall -

It is amazing about genetics, they are so powerful sometimes I think that many a times they cannot be overcome by nurture. My husband was estranged (not by choice) from his daughters for a long time and virtually since birth and yet the day we got the youngest she was a spitting image of him, that always bothered her BM. The older of the two is more like her BM, but I can still she the genetic effect of BF in them (my favorite part of them both!)

My kids like your kids are *cursed* with a very (overly if you ask them) involved Mother and that is why they too get caught. I truely don't believe that my kids are any more horrible than some others I am just more realistic about it and I care enought to butt in thus I do feel completely like the enemy. But if you asked they younger two, they know it is because we care and I try to state that, "it is only because I care" right before I do something they won't like in case they forget it.

Thankless job for sure, but then like you said they do something that warms your heart right before they do the next unexplainable thing that gets your goat. My husband swears that over time, there will be more heart warming than goat getting. I try desperately to believe him every day.

Thanks for the vote of confidence but so far I can't say that any of them have turned out as planned. One is gone and never talks to us, found out yesterday that she is going to have a baby, so sad. The middle is still too early to tell, she does have a 4.1 GPA and a job but still sassy, the verdict is still out. The youngest one, I am still delusional that she is my baby and won't put me through what the others did, but the odds are I am wrong. Either way I do love all 3 very much. And when my tour of duty is over and they are all in charge of their own lives, that will make me even happier until then I charge onward.

".I just get really frustrated when you cook, clean and run them around, hand out $10 bills like lollipops and when you ask for some small courtesy such as keeping strangers out of your house when you are at work..."

You taught them how to treat you and what to expect from you.

Why clean if mom will do it....
Why worry about anything when mom will do it...
Why work for money or even be frugal when mom will dole out cash...
You have raised them that way, and it will take a lot of group therapy to reverse all they have been raised with! It will not happen easily or quickly, though. It will take hard work and committment from all parties.

Gosh, usetoknowitall, I thought this was suppose to be a support group not a smackdown. Well, maybe your kids and my kids can attend group therapy together? After all, they do have much in common.

If you carry the attitude that your kids are miserable whiney, ungrateful human beings and not good for anything at all and the whole issue of being a parent is just too disappointing and miserable for words.....why then it's no small wonder your kids avoid you and don't call.
Kids pretty much behave in the way you expect them to and the way you have shown by example.
I know many many people with kind, polite successful independant kids. But then again they never expected them to be anything but that way.
Sounds to me like there is more than a little resentment with the step kids here.
Linda C

Chloemichell Ignore the ignorant!!! Actually speaking of being judgemental and resentful.. Where were you when their mothers were face down drunk and on heroin? Where were you when they needed love....so don't judge us for what you know very little about obviously. My children have ALL had jobs since they were young, they have all done chores and cleaned their rooms. They all do well in school. If you knew my family, which you don't, you would find that we have a very functioning happy well-balanced and well-loved home with reasonable expectations. But obviously, you live in never, never land and have no teenagers (more than one) Step or otherwise. But thanks for the judgement about our entire lives and relationships and not just sticking with some small "issues" in our home. Oh and the reason why....if it is any of your business why we don't see her....is because she is too busy being on drugs and drinking every day with her biological mother who took her in when she was 18. When all the soccer games and basketball games and school dances and formals and proms and birthday parties and family vacations were all taken care of. No responsibilities but not she can get her high. We don't condone underage drinking and since her mother is an alcoholic she decided to be with her and be like her. A decision she made. SHe received more love and attention and it was not what she wanted. She wanted to be with her mother. Not our expectation...we at one point was signing her up for Ivy League.....just reality...You PINHEAD. But thanks for all the support!!

LindaC sounds to be like you aren't in the inside circle because my kids are kind and polite, successful and independent. There just not perfect! You must be very superficial to only know superficial things about many, many people.

Chloemichelle - Don't listen to a plumber when you are trying to grow a garden.

Lindac: AN exerpt in case you have dimentia
".....All I can say is they are basically good kids and i am thankful." You need to really re-read our posts because you guys can't seem to retain all that we have said....bad and GOOD. But I will sure return to see what intelligent posts you have to offer in the future.
Chloemichelle....you're cool!! You get it just like I do. Thanks for the support. PS Just bought the two teenagers cars and they paid for the insurance. This oughta be a whole new level of nerve damage ;O)......

"Kids pretty much behave in the way you expect them to and the way you have shown by example. "
I agree wholeheartedly!

usetoknow and clhoe, I think you sound like caring, hard-working, but frustrated parents. I haven't been there, my oldest only just turned 13, so take my words for whatever they're worth. I think your kids sound like the rest of us, works in progress. They are not finished people and still have lessons to learn. So maybe sometimes they take the long way. It sounds to me like you love them them unconditionally and have made the best of difficult situations when they come up.

You sure defended the good sides of your kids when you felt criticized, the Mama Bears came out. ;o) So don't just defend them here, remember to tell them the things you are proud of, without a "but.."

When you talked about the selfish, ungrateful attitude that wears you down, I wondered if they've ever done any volunteer work. Maybe work on a Habitat for Humanity project as a family, volunteer at an animal shelter or serve meals at a shelter, or sign up as a family for a walk-a-thon fundraiser. Even if they resist, if you stay the course and stay positive about it, they'll get something out of it to take with them. It's humbling to do something with absolutely no expectation of getting something in return, and to be a part of something bigger than yourself. It's a huge lesson that can change the way a person thinks. It did that for me as a teen, and I hope I hold myself to getting my kids involved in volunteer work as teens.

Even though mine are younger, I identify with your frustration and fatigue. I think all moms need to hear once in a while that they are doing a good job. It's overwhelming and sometimes feels unproductive. Easy to focus on what is going wrong instead of what is going right. What's the phrase? Don't see the forest for the trees, or is it the other way around? Anyhow, I mean that we focus on the problems to fix and don't see them as the whole, great people that they are.

And remember to see yourself as a whole, wonderful person, too. Demand respect from them, they won't give it otherwise.

Like I said, mine are younger, 13, 9, 6 and 4. But I am dumbfounded sometimes when someone says how great my kids are. I think to myself "yeah, but you have no idea...." I think I need to remember to say more positive words than I do. I've heard it said to never underestimate what your kids are capable of- the good or the bad. I really like that way of thinking. Never say "My kid would never behave that badly!" He just might embarass you! At the same time, treat your kids like they are just as capable of very big feats of acheivement and kindness.

I hope you hear the compassion in my voice. If you didn't care or have a clue, you wouldn't be here talking about it. I also hope I don't sound like the clueless, naive mom (that maybe I am) who just doesn't know about teens yet! Finally, I hope you're able to get through this sadness about the job and find the silver lining soon.

I think the sad part of parenting is that you can be the best parent in the world and have horrible kids (or have a few "Great kids" and a few "Horrible Kids" - so you can't say it's "How they parent"), or you can be the worst parent in the world (i.e. drug addict, alcholoic) and have wonderful kids. So what's the "formula"? I don't think there is any. I think it's truely LUCK. Somethings that MAY make a parent more successful are communication, love and faith, but I've seen all three used with kids and they've turned out to be junkies. SO...hang in there, LOVE them and give them a good foundation, they'll come back.

Vickey-MN

Stephanie, that was really great advice!!!

I have 4 kids and while I haven't hit the teen years yet myself, I have had periods when I really felt sad and discouraged. Parenting is so hard, and I agree many parents won't admit or talk about how difficult it really is.

I also wanted to add that you sound like you maybe a little depressed which is totally understandable. I have been there myself. You might want to talk to your doctor about that. Also, look into taking a parenting class. That might make you feel more confident about your parenting skills. Right know your kids might sense how unsure you are feeling, and they might be taking advantage of that. Kids are good at that!

Good luck.

Hey, I know I hit the lottery with regard to kids! They are wonderful little people. I was the teen from hell, and the child my mother absolutely deserved, she was a nightmare. Emotionally and physically abusive. She also abandoned me to live with grandparents most of my life. Thankfully they were decent and kind human beings.

I adore my kids, I tell them so all the time. When they do things I don't approve of they know. They know, also, that I love who they are even when I don't love what they do. They aren't perfect, I don't expect or require it.

Speaking of demonstrating a positive example for one's children, it's not nice to call other people ignorant.

Huh? Who posted here that she was "very sad about parenting"....and who is bashing those of us who feel loving and accepting toward our children?
Usedto, were you looking for advise, a place to whine or just looking to get a rise out of someone?
Linda C

If you feel so "loving and accepting towards your children" this was not the post to follow-up to. Maybe you guys, you 'loving and accepting' people should have written follow-ups for some type of 'ignoring reality' post or 'blissfully uninvolved' post. Your follow up to this post was hurtful, mean, and demonsterous, grossly and erroneously insinuating why our children don't communicate with us. Not to mention, as barnmom so eliquently took issue with...IGNORANT (sometimes constructive criticism is not 'nice' to hear).

Sure there are plenty of examples of good parents/good kids. There are also a great number of examples of good parenting/bad kids and badparenting/good kids. There is no black/white to this issue but wouldn't be great if there was. I do expect nothing less than the best attitude and behavior out of my children, and then lovingly accept what I get and try to guide them closer to the standards I wish they would adhere too. I do the best I can. I love them completely and honestly I can still be disappointed in their choices in life.

I am glad to some degree for people like you, who strongfastly hold onto this elemental belief that if you are good only good things will happen, and I feel sorry for you at the same time because I know deep down in my heart that you don't live in reality, some days I wish I could join you.

LindaC next time you are looking for some place to impose your perfection on others try to compose it in such a manner that you don't look so transparent. Thanks.

The OP opens with
"I was looking for some help from people who have gotten through the teen years with their children.'

So some of us have and were offering opinions.... what's the problem?

The OP did not say "I am miserable; who can wallow with me"!!!
Some of us HAVE had positive experiences....

Maybe this site will offer you insight, comfort, and support.

Here is a link that might be useful: Raising challenging children.

I'm sick and tired of hearing and seeing how perfect some parents are, how beautiful their kids are, how they are the epitomy of creation. This forum is about reality, and the problems that us less fortunate, mere mortals, face. We are here to help each other, not criticize, no put-downs, just the fact that some of us, and our kids, are less than perfect. It is comforting to know that I am not alone in having a problem child, and maybe, just maybe, his problems are more a reflection of society, and as such, he may be considered "normal"!
In any event, I posted a thing concerning my teenage delinquent and my suggestion that Exorcism may be the answer! I got a very kind and supportive reply from Chloemichelle who put a whole new perpective on the matter. She has given me new hope and a light at the end of the teeage years.
I don't know who Chloemichelle is, or her background, but if you're reading this Cloemichelle.........your a good 'un!

Seeker - Thank you so much. I really appreciate the kind words, they mean a lot to me and I am very glad that you recognize we are all in this together, you are not alone.

Barnmom - Great link, thanks for taking the effort to really provide some support. I sincerely respect that.

Western - It is not the differing opinions that are at issue here it is that some people who posted did not post in a supportive manner. Obviously none of us had dismal expectations, no one says, 'Gosh I hope I can really screw this one up'. Maybe some here have been lucky but then those lucky ones should be respectful to those of us who live a more reality based existance. 'If you have nothing kind to say, say nothing at all' insinuating that we have dismal expectations or that we were somehow faulty parents whose children will need years of group therapy to supercede what we have subjected them to, seems a little harsh and non-supportive. Maybe your comments would have been more respectfully received if they had been written more respectfully with an ounce of compassion.

"those lucky ones should be respectful to those of us who live a more reality based existance. "

You are reality based, and others are not??

So now, since I (with DH) survived the teen years with great kids,... I am considered not living in reality??

And all their friends (and those parents)are not indiciative of reality??

Sorry, but this is my reality! I can only speak of what I know....

Yes I am being very reality based and Yes, you are not. Your reality is comprised completely of what you want to see not what is reality. And if your reality is as 'peachy' as you proclaim and if you only speak of what you know, stay off this post since this post is requesting support from those who have had to take a tough road not a leisurely stroll down easy street. Stick with what you know...silver spoons, caviar, fine china.

Western - If you had great kids, then there was no 'surviving'. That is like saying, "I survived a fabulous trip to Balize". Or worse, maybe you 'survived' winning the lottery. Or 'survived' staying at a five star hotel. Gosh, how do you do it? Suffice to say, the rest of us here have not been so lucky.

"Stick with what you know...silver spoons, caviar, fine china."
I speak of what I know, and what you listed is not in my reality! Neither is BELIZE (never been anywhere except USA and CAN), or the lottery (would waste a dollar on it!)...
Let's quit stereotyping, just because someone worked hard and achieved what you could not!

I was a dirt poor white child raised in a high-crime black housing project. I AM a survivor.

DH and I worked very hard to raise two good kids; we are VERY proud of them. It CAN be done, yet you seem to think it cannot. It is NOT a leisurely stroll (and I have NO idea WHY you think it would be!), but we were willing to do the work together as a team.

Again the OP stated: "I was looking for some help from people who have gotten through the teen years with their children."
I was just responding to that.... why does that bother you?

"stay off this post since this post is requesting support from those who have had to take a tough road not a leisurely stroll down easy street." That is not what the OP said... and I have just as much right to post as anyone else.

I am far from ignorant. My eldest is ADHD, medicated until about a year ago. Without meds, he was constantly kicked out of class and was wearing a groove in the hall on the way to the principal's office. My daughter is the "H" in hyperactive. They have unique needs both in the classroom and at home. I won't go into details about raising these rascals, but it was often very trying when they younger. They are bright and loving and seem to be dealing with teen years with a minimum of drama. Nice friends, decent grades, no recent calls from school!

I'm crossing fingers, toes and eyeballs...

Every child is different, and I am not jealous one bit of what you have achieved especially with such 'great' kids. If you had the kids delivered to your door that I have had delivered to mine, than you would be singing a different tune. Your kids were 'great' your words not mine. I got delivered a different type of teenager. As a matter of fact, maybe you were fortunate enough to have birthed all of your children, I was not. Mine were delivered at 11 and 13, don't talk to me about apples and oranges. Let's just say your odds of success with bio kids is a lot different than mine with step's. No comparison, sorry. I wouldn't wish my odds on anyone, even you who seem to think you have had to work so hard yet have it all figured out. You don't know what work is until you have had two teenage girls delivered on your step after being abducted by their drug biomom several years earlier. Lots of years I have to try and undo, your bio-kids never faced such horrors. In the OP, she states, "gotten through" that implys that she is looking for parents who have struggled with some serious issues, not, 'DH and I worked real hard' with bio-kids. You at least had a partner, some of the people here have lost theirs, yet you spare no one judgement, when the reality is if you had to face what we have faced, you aren't prepared to do it as successfully as we do, since you have never had step kids dropped on your doorstep, abused, mistreated.

And now that you both have been pushed, you seem to be sliding a little on the, 'my kids were great' thing. I see a lot more reality, ADHD... Hyper..., that's what we were looking for here. I still don't see where Western admits to one bit of issue in her kids teen years. Must be great to be so fortunate to have to raise your bio-kids from jumpstreet, without having to deal with a BM or BF. It is too bad you are so hellbent on thinking you have something to add to this post. Just be fortunate that you are not in our situation, with step kids, and BM or BF. This is my first marriage but for many it is not, some have even been widowed, it seems like this is not your situation either, so before you hold every one to your perfect parenting method, "Kids pretty much behave in the way you expect them to and the way you have shown by example. " Please try and realize that not every one has had your perfect conditions by which to raise their children. A little respect, please.

DH and I discussed this with the kids at dinner tonight. (oh wait, a family enjoying a home-cooked meal together - is that reality or not to you?), and they were highly amused.

They especially liked the "Your reality is comprised completely of what you want to see not what is reality." and DD wanted to know if you consider their existence reality or if maybe I am making them up!

Yes, I birthed my kids, and yes, I have a husband. I didn't know that is considered perfect conditions....
According to that logic, if a child lives with the birth mother and her partner, that child is guaranteed to never have problems, right?
If only it were that simple!

Cry me a river lady....when you face real challenges that is.

According to you, it is as simple as "Kids pretty much behave in the way you expect them to and the way you have shown by example. " according to you. And no that is not the reality of the world, that is only the reality of your perfect conditions. Wish we could all see the world so simply as you, but most of us have to face some pretty harsh truths that you have never had to deal with. Good thing cause by the sounds of it, whatever doesn't fit into your neat, tidy little generalization you couldn't handle.

"that is only the reality of your perfect conditions."
So hung up on 'perfect'! Well, in my reality, perfect does not exist on this planet. And I don't even try to look for it - good luck in YOUR quest!

"most of us have to face some pretty harsh truths that you have never had to deal with."
And what makes you an expert on MY life? You know nothing about me; it seems very foolish making judgments based on assumptions.

"whatever doesn't fit into your neat, tidy little generalization you couldn't handle."
You have NO idea of what I have handled and what I do handle.

Why so defensive? Why refuse to believe good kids can be raised?
Just looking to liven up the board? You're doing a good job there...

Oh my.....we have a troll here and no one recognizes it?
Any one remember the acronymn SOB? It means, in cyber language, Scroll On By.....
We seem to have a whiner looking for people to say "oh! Poor you! How could that ever be when you have tried sooo hard to be the perfect parent!?"
But, as I said.....SOB...no need to agree or disagree with someone who has made up their mind.

Posted by barnmom (My Page) on Wed, Jul 26, 06 at 18:05

Hmmm. My teens are great (not perfect!), I tell them so all the time. They seem to make an effort to live up to my positive expectations.

Posted by western_pa_luann (My Page) on Fri, Jul 28, 06 at 11:44
".I just get really frustrated when you cook, clean and run them around, hand out $10 bills like lollipops and when you ask for some small courtesy such as keeping strangers out of your house when you are at work..."

You taught them how to treat you and what to expect from you.

Why clean if mom will do it....
Why worry about anything when mom will do it...
Why work for money or even be frugal when mom will dole out cash...
You have raised them that way, and it will take a lot of group therapy to reverse all they have been raised with! It will not happen easily or quickly, though. It will take hard work and committment from all parties.
Posted by lindac (My Page) on Fri, Jul 28, 06 at 15:27

If you carry the attitude that your kids are miserable whiney, ungrateful human beings and not good for anything at all and the whole issue of being a parent is just too disappointing and miserable for words.....why then it's no small wonder your kids avoid you and don't call.
Kids pretty much behave in the way you expect them to and the way you have shown by example.
I know many many people with kind, polite successful independant kids. But then again they never expected them to be anything but that way.
Sounds to me like there is more than a little resentment with the step kids here.
Linda C

Chloemichelle: Thank you for coming to my defense. I took all that you said along with stephanie from ga and seeker-returns. I know good, sound advice when I hear it and thank you. Please don't go round and round with the posters who wrote such horrible, judgemental comments as I have cut and pasted to remind you. Let it go. You guys reminded me that the children that I have guided really are great kids. They sometimes get me overwhelmed since three of them are in their late teens and really know how to get my goat as you said ;O). The fact remains that although it seems on some days that they are going to turn out bad... in actuality....they are good kids even great in my eyes. I need to remember that ....like one of you said they are a work in progress. I am constantly hearing how great the two at home are and I sometimes lose site of that because I work full-time, take care of my parents on both sides and when the day is done...they really know how to be living in their own world and seem to me as ungrateful. The oldest one really did make us nuts but that is not the fault of the other two teenagers. BUt often times my DH and I are shell-shocked and think "aw man, here we go again". But in actuality, there really are no comparisons. The oldest was a tough kid to raise when she was 8 let alone a teenager. The other three are not at all.

I think you three are great people and I am glad that we got to air things out. No sense having a battle of wits when there is no challenge. I took what I needed from this thread and ignored the rest so you guys should do the same. We will meet again in another thread. Take care and again thank you for your support. My son gave me a card that simply said..."thanks for always believing in me" and my daughter followed my request and did not invite her friend inside the house when I was not home...So for today, I feel good. ALthough my posts do not seem poignant because I work in computers and I am sick of them by the time I get home ;O), I want to be perfectly clear in the fact that I sincerely appreciate you for being supportive and helpful when I needed it most. I do believe that my home is a great place..(:O) we eat dinner together..:O)..in between all of our jobs, football, dance, baseball and visits to grandma's. But sometimes, I stress sometimes, we can have an Osbourne moment or two. LOL. I am a better person for meeting you guys.
As for the rest of you, ... thanks anyways.