From sherheart,

"For a person to hold another person ransom over not getting their way, is childish and hurtful. Your daughter has control issues, sounds like to me. She wants to control YOU."

One wonders how long it will take before our children realize that the people being harmed the most when they use grandchildren as pawns in their games, are the GRANDCHILDREN themselves. Those grandchildren remember us; one wonders what they are being told about our disappearance from their lives or if they are too young to remember, they will find out that we exist (or did exist) and our children will pay the piper.

Bizlady, I know what you are going through. My 4 grandchildren live only about 6 miles away and I've not seen them in close to two years. They, too, used to spend many days and hours with me; I miss them dreadfully.

I feel so sorry for you all. If you do know your grandchildren's address, don't forget to send them birthday cards regardless of your relationship with their parents. It may help, you and them.

Cards and gifts are a great way to stay in touch - but only if the parent(s) allow the children to have them. I know that my daughter throws away the things I send to my grandkids without them even seeing the cards/gifts. I know several other grandparents whose attempts at communication suffer the same fate.

The "upside" of her behavior however is that it must be very hard work psychologically and emotionally to keep watching the mailbox around birthday/holiday time to make certain that none of the children see any mail addressed to them from me.

However, I keep copies of each communication I send them and someday they will receive those copies and will know that I always tried.

I have read many of the messages here and feel compelled to write one of my own. I have been estranged from my mother for the past decade. Events around my father's dying and death 7 years ago deepened the chasm between us immeasurably.

I could detail the events leading up to what seems an impassable abyss but what would be the point? Yes, horrible things happened in the past and those things make me reluctant to put myself in proximity to her again lest I be hurt once more. Still, I have always wanted my mother and a tiny effort on her part would go a long way with me.

If she answered more than a couple of the two dozen letters I have written to her over the past 7 years, I might feel some hope for some future between us. If she had called on 9/11 to see if I was home and OK (I live in Boston and travel by air a great deal). If she would budge from her 'my way or the highway' stance on where and how we go from here. If she would just act like she loves me a little, tiny bit by showing some concern or kindness.

The onus is on me. I know my mother will not make a first effort. She never has. I know she will never apologize. She thinks she doesn't owe her offspring apologies. But how much effort does it take to answer a letter? Surely she must realize that not responding is akin to saying 'get away from me and stay away.' That is my take away.

I was taught to keep secrets about the dysfunction within my family. I was taught that I was to blame. I was in my 30's before I could buck those lessons. I do not volunteer information about the chasms within my family now but I don't dodge questions either. I talk about it. I do not feel ashamed. This is something I have had to overcome to become the person I am.

We all want to be valued and appreciated for who and what we truly are, especially by family. I am no different.

My thinking about my mother is guided by what I feel I can do at any given time that is just within my comfort zone. I am guided by the thought of 'what if she died tomorrow? Would I be comfortable with my actions towards her?' I rather doubt this approach has dawned on her but it should. No one is owed a tomorrow. Things happen.

I wish you all peace and healing.

My husband & I were estranged from our adult child for 3 yrs. The last 5 yrs, she's been back in our life. Things are happening again, and she's becoming more and more distant. Is the private site I've seen some posts about still open? I emailed kaykays but didn't get a response. I'd feel better talking in private for fear someone will recognize me.Thanks.

sniffleso7, I too emailed kaykays. I did receive one response regarding her wanting to know where I heard about her site. When I emailed back explaining that it was this forum and I would love to see her site, I didn't hear back from her. Hopefully she will check this forum and get back to us.

Thanks sadie2 for your story and perspective of a daughter trying to communicate with parents, but to no avail. I can see it's not always the daughter or son shunning the parents - it is also the other way around.

Thanks for responding, blizlady. I just feel I can't post freely on here. I feel for all of you...been there, done that, and feel it's beginning to happen again. I have grandkids that were kept away from us then and probably will be again. Our daughter use to be the sweetest girl, we wonder what has happened. We feel a lot of it has come from her husband..but why doesn't she stand up to him? It's almost like she's brainwashed. I've read the posts in here..and they all hit home. Makes me sad.

Sniffles07, yes it is your daughter's husband that's probably behind all this. That's what it has been in our family. Husband controlling and emotionally abusing; daughter has not yet seemed to develop the emotional strength to leave.

Sniffles07 and bizlady, please feel free to e-mail me about the the private website.

njtea..I sent you an email. If you don't get it, let me know please.

Yes, we have a SIL that intercepted her kids cards from their grandparents too... only it is so she could take the checks out of them before the kids saw them. The ex-in-law grandparents finally got wise and started sending the cards to my MIL (the other gramma) to give directly to the kids, rather than mail them directly to the SILs house.

I think just sending a card would make me feel good at least, and maybe make it will force the person intercepting at least think about things. And they won't have the ammo of "she doesn't even send the kids birthday cards"... and such nonsensical justification.

"I think just sending a card would make me feel good at least, and maybe make it will force the person intercepting at least think about things. And they won't have the ammo of "she doesn't even send the kids birthday cards"... and such nonsensical justification."

My feelings and thoughts exactly, klimkm.

I got your e-mail, sniffles, and replied.

My daughter was a sweet girl that everyone liked. She was thoughtful, and never gave us trouble. Then she married an older man. Everything revolves around this man and his family. In our opinion, he doesn't treat her that well. He's not physically abusive or anything, but he's self centered and can justify anything he does. Neither of them drink or do drugs. They have 3 children. The first time they started avoiding us, they both told lies about us around town. Things like..we didn't love one of the grandkids, etc. Stupid stuff like that. We tried and tried to talk to our daughter at this time but if we called, he'd say she didn't want to talk to us and hang up or if we went to their house, he'd come to the door and start arguing. They wouldn't let us see the grandkids yet told people we didn't ask. We asked numerous times. Finally after 2-3 yrs, we were allowed to see the kids and we started being a family again. Last fall, he got mad at us again...I won't mention why here for fear someone may read this..and recognize us. We aren't allowed at their house now. We asked our daughter to go talk to us to get our side of the story but she said 'there's no need'. Our daughter and the grandkids have continued to visit us, although in the last month, we've had no contact with them. So we feel that her and the grandkids probably will not be seeing us again. One thing that really bothers me, anything he says about us, my daughter believes, like she never knew us! I don't get it!

PS: Once my sil told my son that my daughter & I were too close. Right after this is the first time they cut off contact. Once when I mentioned to my daughter that we use to be so close, she told me that was the 'perception'!

After months of searching for online support (in order to maintain my sanity), I feel so blessed to have found this forum. Sherheart, your May 10 post could have been written by me. Your story deeply touched me, and for the first time, I havent felt so alone with the troubles that were having with our youngest of three daughters.

My soon-to-be 20 year old is living her life completely contrary to what she was taught. Her Dad and I are no longer "rescuing" her, and we fear for what her "bottom" (as we call it) will ultimately turn out to be. She continues to dig herself deeper into moral, financial and legal problems. She comes in and out of our life at whim; she has gone as long as 8 weeks without any contact.

I feel that I live a double-life. Because of my position at work, I do not discuss our problems with our daughter with co-workers. Somehow, after nights of endless worry, I find the strength to maintain my positive attitude and get through the day. Truth be known, Im probably not fooling anyone. I know that a spark is gone from my life maybe they see it, too?

I was so excited to read in earlier email strings that there was an online support group available (kaykays5), but, disheartened later on to read that there is no response to inquiries. Does anyone know of a different online support group that has been helpful?

I would not wish this heartache on anyone. I hope that I can learn through others experiences and give back to some what I have learned along the way. Sherheart, thank you again for sharing your story it has touched me deeply.

Try www.estrangedparents-adultschildren.com. It's a private site, but you can read the public pages. You wouldn't find much in the private area that's not here; the only thing the private part of the site does is to keep out those "children" who might want to join in the discussion and attempt to justify their actions.

Dirtboysdad - thank you VERY much! I just glanced at the website and it looks very interesting - just what I have been looking for...! I will definitely take a closer look after work today. Thank you, again!

Blondiestin, how horrible that you feel the same pain over your daughter that I do. I am so very sorry. I know exactly what you mean, when you say " she is digging herself deeper in moral, legal and financial problems." Your daughter is also the same age as mine. 2o years old is old enough to do right......so why can't they? Why won't they? I refuse to give my daughter any more excuses. She was not abused as a child. She had 2 loving parents and 3 brothers and a dog. She played soccer and basketball and took piano lessons. She had chores, an allowance and her own car at 16 years old. She was loved. In other words, she had a normal life. But, she chose another way to live. Other people to influence her. No rules to follow and no mother being her voice of conscience. She walked away without a backward glance. Oh, she still calls her Dad when she needs money for DUI, or she cannot pay her rent that month. [I could have let her destroy my marriage because I do not agree with how her Dad still needs to play the part of rescuer......but I decided to never interfere in his relationship with his only daughter.........it is THEIR relationship.] I still grieve but the grieving times are coming less and less frequently. She does not need me in her life and if I am truly, brutally honest nor do I need her in my life as the person she has become. Isn't that an awful thing to say? I wish I could go back and discover what in the world happened to her to make her become who she is today.....God should have given her a different Mom....I wasn't the one that she needed nor the one that had much influence on her, I guess. Sadie2, thank you for sharing your side of the mother-daughter estrangement. I have read it over several times and I think you are very wise. Hearing both sides is invaluable. Thank you.

Sherheart: I feel your pain and can empathize with what you are saying. My son is an only child- he had everything. We were here for him every day. I remember helping him with things right thru grad school. I was always here as was my husband. My husband and I never had 1/2 the benefits or love growing up that he did. There was no abuse here either- just a loving mother father and cat. We were here every night for dinner, took him everywhere we went and sacrificed so that he would get the best education possible. As soon as he graduated he became a man of the world and we got a good kick in the rear. He hates us. We are not needed anymore. Now, he listens to people out for everything they can get from him and to heck with his father and I. We are both sick over it. I cannot walk through my neiughborhood without thinking of the hours we spent as a family walking, doing family acitivies. When I see kids playing baseball it takes me back to the hours my husband spent as a coach and I as team mother for a variety of teams. It makes me sad that everything can be forgotten. And my mother who paid for his entire education, bought him a new car, bought him anything he needed has also gotten a kick in the rear. I cannot understand it. He cannot even pick up the phone to call or send an e mail. He set his myspace page to private- guess we cannot even read that anymore. He does not need us anymore. He has turned into a selfish uncaring rotten person. I am ashamed that he is my son which is a terrible thing to say. He has a great education, career, potential. Yet he has the gratitude, respect and scruples of a common bum. I am very sick over it, I wake up at night wondering what the heck I did wrong. I never expected to be neglected, rejected, banished and ignored by my adult child. I sometimes wish I never had him. I think about the great career I gave up to give him my full time and attention. Worst of all, I often wish that he would cease to exist so that there would be closure. All terrible things to think and say, but the hurt is too much to bear. I often see grandparents with their grandkids and think that this will never ne me. I would love to have a grandchild to love and adore. It will never happen. I am on the banished list. It is just sad that this is so prevalent. I do not know what happened to these kids. It is so sad.

Lost Mama,
I can relate to the terrible thoughts. My daughter isn't an only child, but her and I were so close. She acts like she doesn't know who we are (she's so eager to believe the lies her husband spews about us). I wonder sometimes who this girl belongs to. My daughter had a good childhood growing up. My son thinks she's brainwashed. My daughter would rather have her in laws that her own parents and sibling. We put our daughter through college also, a chance her father and I never had. Then when I got a big advancement in my career (which was on hold while I raised my family) she wasn't even glad for me. Makes me depressed, sad, and at times so angry I scare myself.

Snifles,
I know exactly what you are saying. My son used to call here and just ask for my husband by his first name without even acknowledging me. When he sent me an e mail he signed his entire name, professional designation and employment title and corporate address... Like I was some client of his.
He used to call here and be on speaker phone at home and say hurtful things to me like that I was a drunk and got loaded in public a lot (I do not drink at all) or that I do nasty things like cleaning the apts. I manage if I cannot get the cleaning service before a showing- hahaha! like honest work is a crime. The joke was on me so that this little lady gf could be amused. Big joke on me.
I also think my son may be brainwashed by the trailer park trash he has become enamored with. They are the lowest of the low people- and for some reason he thinks they are the greatest. They are looking to milk him dry of all his money- and doing a great job- he is their new meal ticket. He has to support the whole bunch of them vicariously as the gf. has his credit card and takes her 2 unmarried baby mama sisters shopping on my son. It is disgusting. And he cannot even spend a dime to call me or my husband or my mother who really care about him.

Sometimes when he called I wondered if he had been drinking- but he claims he gave that up when he graduated. He claimed to be happy. I wonder if the gf. drugged him or something. The mood swings were so extreme. I also wonder if he may be mentally ill.

I think of the fact that he got a full education thru grad school without a penny of loans. My husband an I had to work thru school topay the tuition. He never had to do this. He came out debt free with a nice nest egg courtesy of my parents. And he hates us all now.

I often think God will punish me for thinking that I wish he would vanish- but it is how I feel because I cannot see my husabnd and I living as we are. It is so sad. The holidays are the worse. We have no other family and it is just unbearable. I do not know what I am going to do. I often feel like dying myself as I never expected that my own son would be so cruel.

dear lostmama, Your feelings right now are raw and extremely painful. That is why you you think such despairing thoughts.....but as time passes, I promise these feelings, while never going away, will lessen in intensity. You have only one life to call your own. Today might be your last. Please do not let your son continue to re-hurt you. When you start to think of your loss, switch gears and think of your many blessings. I have found that after doing this for awhile, it becomes easier to not fall victim to all the negativity. Of course, I have not had my daughter in my life for 3 years and 8 months, so I have had plenty of time to practice this. I do not want to spend my last days on earth in emotional pain. I am trying so hard to move forward, and come to the realization that I can not make my child a better person. She has to do that herself. Your son and my daughter might very well do an about face one day....they might come to the realization that they did indeed have a loving family and they will simply say " I am so sorry." I think THAT hope keeps a small light at the end of the tunnel for me and on my really bad grieving days, I cling to that. Our children are no longer children. Whatever they decide to do with their lives is totally up to them. We did the best we could. Now, we need to let them go and focus on US. I have repeatedly said this verse from the BOOK of JOHN for all this time and it has helped me. It has become my mantra of sorts. Jesus spoke this to his apostles right before he was arrested and crucified. "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Have faith in God. Have faith in me." I choose to let go and let God take over. It is the only thing I can do. Lostmama, you matter. I matter. We have to let go, for us. For our well-being. Your anger and your hurt is only hurting YOU. Not your son. I believe if we can forgive our adult children, this dissapointment over who they have become, will certainly ease. I keep trying to forgive. Some days, I think I have it down.........the trick is to live in THIS day and not the past. I wish you peace.

I posted a couple times last night but they aren't here. I'm relatively new at this so if they show up in the middle somewhere..overlook me. Haha
Lostmama, we also put our daughter through college (a chance that her father and I never had). Then when I got a big advancement in my career, which I had put on hold to raise my family, she wasn't glad for me. When she is here, and the sil is not, she acts like her old self. When he is here, she acts hateful and snippy. It's like she wants to impress him? I really dread the next few years.

Thank you for the inspirational Bible verse in your last post, Sherheart. What a timely reminder. I've memorized the Serenity Prayer and find myself saying it several times throughout the day...that tends to give me comfort, as well. I am currently reading an online (& free!) book, "Letting Go of Our Adult Children". Although I haven't read too much of the book, I am already finding tremendous comfort in the author's experience and advise. If anyone would like the link to the book, let me know and I'll be happy to share it.

Lostmama, my heart goes out to you. So many of our situations are completely baffling - I guess that's the reason why it's so difficult to bring closure. I'm hoping in time I can learn to let go of my daughter, with love. Maybe this is the true test of unconditional love? To love them...even though they have broken our hearts beyond measure...

Blondiestin,
You are so right..it's completely baffling. I hope that all of us can mend the rifts and have happy, healthy families again. Until then, maybe we can find some happiness and acceptance. I feel like I'm grieving...and I'm sure a lot of you feel that way too. I can't go on this way the rest of my life I hope.

Just my 2 cents. I am a parent but want to share something as a child here.

When I was in my 20s my parents and a grandmother(whom I love and they are great people) terribly interfered in my marriage every way possible. Especially my father, but my mother stood by him. In their opinion they were just trying to help. I was young as was my ex and we were not strong enough to withstand. Out of fear to upset my parents I followed whatever they told me while hurting my husband. Well needless to say we got divorced after 5 years of marriage.

My parents did the same thing to my brother (worse), starting with my father not being present at their wedding. The reason was that they considered him to be too young to marry and marriage would hinder his carrier and his bride was not good enough. Imagine my brother's embarassment of parents not coming to his wedding. But my brother was strong though and always stood by his wife. They are still happily married for 19 years.

During my single life every boyfriend I had my parents would make negative comments about them (mainly my dad, also my grandmother). In fact I have a nice boyfriend now and am petrified that they will create some unberabale situation with him too.

I most certainly am not estranged from my parents, we are close and I always knew that they did not do it to hurt anyone. But both me and my brother at times feel that we want to be far far away and maybe never talk to them and just keep them away from our lives. It is not going to happen of course, but at times we remember things and can't help not to feel this way.

Always good advice for the parents not to try and go against their son or daughter's fiancee or husband/wife. They will lose and then they are estranged from the son/daughter and possibly grandkids.
Unless there is abuse involved, just bite your tongue. You don't have to live with the spouse - your son or daughter does.
My MIL hated me when I started dating her son as well - for some imaginary reason. Although DH knew she was unreasonable, as she had a history of being that way.
Now sugar couldn't melt in her mouth - we have been married for 20+ years.
And adults should not feel like they have to get their parents approval for things - and shame on parents for playing that head-game with their kids.

My mil was mean to me also. I did more for her than her 2 daughters, but it didn't make a difference. I am happy to say I never treated her bad or withheld my grandkids. I've always treated my sil well also, but I still think he doesn't treat my daughter right, and he has a lot to do with the estrangment.

i have three adult children. i was estranged from the oldest one for two years, but then we made up. now the other two are out-of-touch. this seems to happen around their saturn returns. my personality style is much different from that of all of my children. we have much different values. of course i see my values as being superior, but are they, really? :)

i am trying right now to find a way to appreciate our differences and be in relationship with them without compromising myself. it is not easy, even philosophically.

recently one of my children cussed me out - she has not sincerely apologized, and i feel her distance.

in my family i am seen as the bad guy, the partypooper, really - the one who is no fun. my adult children like to party and i am not into that.

it is very painful to feel not loved, respected or understood by one's own children, it makes me question everything. i do not understand the dynamic of families at all at this point.

my relationship with my children is not reciprocal - it is either me kissing their butts or nothing . . . they don't come to me to try to work things out. i feel sad about that and there is nothing i can do about it, so it also hurts to be so powerless.

they hold all of the cards as i am the one who wants the relationship, they don't, to varying degrees, depending upon which "kid' we are talking about.

Seek, My daughter also told me off a few months ago. Since then we've had a 'strained' relationship with no contact the last month. I don't understand why she told me off. 99% of what she said had no truth in it. She told me she felt like she didn't have a mom to talk to. That really hurt because I've always been here for my kids. I gave up a lot in my life to raise them in a good and stable family. And I was glad to do it! I had asked my daughter several times over the last months to call me some Sat. when she was free and we'd go have lunch, etc. She never did. She continued to call me once a week or so, but we never got together. Why does she yell she feels she doesn't have a mother? I've always been available. I've came to the conclusion the last couple of week, that it's HER who doesn't want the mother, so why does she put it on me? My daughter also doesn't come to me to try to work things out. Is it pride? Stubborness? Her husband? ( I know he has a lot to do with it)But I don't feel it's all 'him'. Why don't I go to her to try to work things out? I know from past experience that all it will be is her telling me off again. Then everything gets worse and we are even more estranged. Seek, I feel you, hang in there.
Ann

thanks for the understanding, sniff - i don't have any answers for myself so i am trying to take a more spiritual approach - work with this problem on a different level - from the mundane level, i could blame my daughters for all kinds of things, but that is just going to continue the dynamic that is so troubling to me. i find it hard to forgive when there have been no apologies and maybe no understanding that what they have done/said to me was wrong or hurtful - but again, i don't know what else to do.

i know that i had a rocky relationship with my mother - she wanted something from me i couldn't give - i am sure my daughters feel the same in some ways. i think i have been far more available for relationship than my mother was - but in the end, maybe it is just that mother/daughter friction that the daughters just can't handle. it seems more important to be free of that than to have a difficult relationship with your mom.

the daughter who cussed me out and i have not gotten along for a long time, but we have been civil. i noticed i had heavy judgement against her and very hard feelings towards her. i thought she was doing just about everything wrong. i am sure anyone would want to be free of that judgment. it doesn't matter in one sense if i am right.

i was so angry with her and hurt by her - now i feel abandoned by her. i am going to have to let go in some way because it is up to her to process her stuff and to approach me, or not.

i have emailed her and she responds, but very tersely. i send her funny youtubes and she does say "cute." so i guess the way into her heart is to just forward good news, not problems or any advice (i have a huge problem not giving advice which i have been working on for years).

Seek, I admire how you have changed your tactics. I can relate to harboring the bad feelings, thinking they don't realize how they've hurt us, etc. My daughter and sil pulled this same crap 5 yrs ago, and it lasted 3 yrs. The whole time I thought...I wish I could tell her this, or that, she said this to me..and I'd be angry for days. Even when she came back, I'd think of those things in the back of my mind, although I never brought them up. Even this time, I think 'how could she say that?' You've given me something to mull over. Thanks

The posts I have read here are incredibly thoughtful and articulate. But the posting frequency is not great. I wonder why.

Anyway, I have made strides in letting go of the extreme pain I felt, initially, when my daughter lashed out at me. I realize that part of what she is lashing out at doesn't even exist - it actually has no relationship to me - I don't feel seen or appreciated, and in fact, I am not. So by the same token, I don't have to take it personally when she lashes out at me and says horrible things to me (that I would never dream of saying to another human being).

One thing people sometimes say, is: They love you but they don't like you. I don't understand that and I don't agree with it. I think love is a verb. If you love someone, you treat them lovingly. I have been told this is very idealistic, but I don't understand love any other way.

Someone told me that my daughter probably does love me deep down, but that she can't access that part of herself - fear of vulnerability and all of that. That sounds reasonable, but the only good it does me is helping my self esteem just a little bit.

I am not telling lies anymore that I have the perfect family. I just told someone today who asked about my kids that I struggle in my relationship to my youngest two and that we are going through a difficult time at the moment. That way you don't have to lie and you also don't have to go into the gory details.

I guess I will wait to see if this thread is completely dead. Maybe everyone made up and lived happily ever after.

Regarding infrequency of posting, I think it's because those who need support and to vent come here, participate for a while and then leave because it becomes a lot of "same old, same old." That's not to say that new participants issues are not valid because they certainly are. Rather it's because eventually we realize that all the stories are the same and it is just too depressing to read any longer.

I'm sure some estrangements end successfully; I've been told it takes 2 to 3 years to begin to repair a relationship. However, I don't think that relationship can ever become what it was before. Further, I know of very few repairs when there is a significant other calling the shots. He/she is calling the shots for a purpose - to separate the spouse from the family of origin - and unless there's a divorce, that doesn't change.

Seek, I do believe you can love someone but not like what they are doing. We don't like our child's behavior but we still do love them.

Good news for a change, the grandkids will be here next weekend. I predicted wrong when I thought they'd be withheld for us, like happened in the past. Haven't seen them for close to 6 weeks.
I had some words of wisdom from my son last night. Bless him, he's a loving son-26 yrs old. He told me he felt my daughter lashes out at me because 1. She was/is closest to me, & 2. She thinks I'll never turn my back on her, & 3. I don't lash back at her. (Like he or his father would)
Also, he feels the sil dumps on me, even though I have nothing at all to do with the last rift, because I am the weakest link. Do I need to be stronger??
Fuzzy, I agree with you that after an estrangement things are never how they were before. Even after everything was fine, I never felt the same about my daughter. I love her, and would do anything for her, but I didn't look at her the same.

I, too, am the mother of an estranged adult daughter. I am writing a book presently, to help parents who are in this heartwrenching situation, to once again be able to get on with their lives and move forward. If you would like to help me (and others), and have the time to share your story (of course I will change all identifying factors), please drop a line to me at radm@att.net and I will send you a few questions to which you can respond. Thank you!

Raeleen

My husband and I are in the midst of my second daughter's second ousting of us from her life and the life of her family. My children came from my first marriage, an abusive and frightening one, which I fled after 4 long and scary years. I was a single parent for almost 15 years before I met and married my current husband. When this daughter was around 10 she started acting out a bit - I homeschooled her for a semester, signed her up for a charter school which she decided she didn't like and flunked out of after I stayed up after working nights to take her to school and then got up early to get her and bring her home...she stayed in school, probably because she didn't see any choice, until a year after we moved here from the other state we were living in. When she turned 13, she became increasing rebellious. One night she left after I went to work at 11 and didn't get home till almost 4. She went to visit my sister a few hours from us and took off again. I had to go get her early because my sister couldn't handle her. I was hoping that moving here would help her and give her a new start as well as giving her a positive male role model; their dad never did visit or see them once the divorce was final.
We came here to live with my second husband, who lived here when we met. Shortly after we settled in here she started seeing the boy on the property that adjoins ours. His parents had a much different way of life than ours. I'm not trying to be critical, but they never gave their kids chores; they didn't make them go to school; they ate lots and lots of fast, fatty food; they didn't go to church; they are very backwoods country people and not at all what I am used to. A few months later, the first big thing here happened when she told the principal at the high school that I was physically abusing her. As a licensed RN, she put my livelihood on the line with that accusation and once we got to DFS she decided that it wasn't really all that bad and the case was dropped. I grounded her for 6 weeks - she was 17 and I was about out of my mind with what to do with this demon who had been a sweet child, full of laughter and joy. I guess she began even then sneaking clothes over to her boyfriend's house while I was at work, taking a thing or two at a time. Her older sister moved home to finish school and was so excited about getting her diploma after dropping out at 17 - it looked as if they would both graduate the same time. 3 days before my daughter's restriction was due to be over she came home one day, loaded up her backpack, came out of her room, said "I can't live here any more," and walked out the door. I was crushed. Demolished. Devastated. I had no clue. Looking back I'm sure there were signs, but she had made plans to go to culinary school after graduation and I was so naive.... so, in spite of me asking the family next to us not to take her in but to send her home, they took her in and let her live there, good Christians that they claimed to be, letting my 17 year old daughter share a bedroom and a bed with her 17 year old boyfriend. Mom insisted that the kids weren't having sex in her house. I'm not stupid. I know what they were doing. When she left, she stopped talking to me. 4 years later, they got married and didn't tell us. When she had their first baby I only knew because other people told me. All this was going on right next to us. I saw her from the window from time to time. For a while they moved, and then came back. One day, out of the blue, she showed up with her husband and child, and we welcomed her into our home like nothing had happened. She took me places and was all friendly and cuddly and cozy and happy. After a few weeks, the strain was pretty much way in the back corner and things were good again. However, the family habits of slovenliness still prevailed. The parents moved out of one of the trailers leaving my daughter and her family in the other. The second one is absolutely full of black mold, dirt, dust, vermin, and who knows what. The trailer they were living in had over a year's worth of trash in bags in the pantry off the kitchen. It was awful. Finally they got the garbage out after numerous hints from me about the smell. They took it out the back door and put it in a ditch in the yard that runs between the trailers. I could still smell it up here on the hill on windy days and warm ones. The babies ate cold food most of the time, or fast food, in the boxes, eating with their fingers out of a bowl on a table in the living room that they ran to and from during the day. Her daughter was sensitive to parts of disposables and she told me once that the longer she left the baby in the diapers the better the rash got so sometimes she'd leave her in the diaper for 12 to 14 hours. I was alarmed. I was disgusted. I called planning and zoning about the garbage because when I mentioned it she said well hey, it's out of our house; I called DFS out of concern for the children who were still sleeping in the room with Mom and Dad so if they woke up they could wander the little trailer bedroom and not get into trouble. Two days later I got a call saying she hoped I enoyed the visit with my grandkids because I would never see them again. It's been two years now and another baby and she has been true to her word. She has twisted things and accuses me of being a two faced liar, accuses us of calling because of the 14 cars on the property, all unlicensed....not a word about the garbage stinking up the neighborhood in her weblog...and she accused me of trying to take her kids away. They wouldn't let the kids stay here, but they could stay with her husband's mom even though she swore she couldn't stand them and that her father in law had openly gawked at her and made comments about her body. Her husband praises her for cutting off contact with us. All this time, mind you, I can see their house from my windows. I see it every day. I hear my grandchildren several times a week and if they see me and mention my name, she takes them inside and away from me. It's killing me living here. I am now at the point, with hubby being laid off, of looking to sell this house and moving away. If we sold it for what it is worth, we could pay off the loan and move into a senior citizen's community - probably mobile homes - and get a used home for just a little more than what we would profit from this place, if not pay for the whole thing. My other two children have excellent relationships with me. My son wants to pound his sister for what she has said about me and what she has done to me psychologically. I love her, and I would forgive her in a heartbeat, but if she ever got her head out of her backside, I'm not sure I could so easily trust her again. I just don't get it. I did the best I could. My son was in trouble with the law and was a runaway for about 4 years, and he grew up and came around and we have an awesome relationship. My oldest daughter and I are as close as a mother and daughter can be. We're almost like twins. It's crazy. And it's making me crazy.

I feel for all those that are in pain caused by their children. I am writing about my eldest child, whom I had to fight tooth and nail to keep because I was nearly 16 when I gave birth to him. Against everyone's wishes and demands, I decided to not abort or give him up for adoption. I loved this child more than I could have ever imagined and I did "thought" I great job providing him with lots of love and attention. I confess I might have given him too many material things but he had to earn these things.

He has grown up to be very selfish, self-centered and is very mean-spirited towards me in spite of all the wrong-doings he has done to me and his step-father. His step-father is still in contact with him but I have severed all ties because I cannot bare being hurt by him any further.

Even though some will think I am wrong for doing this but from now on, I will now tell anyone who asks me how many children I have, I will say that I only have one child. This is my coping mechanism, so this is what I am doing. I do not feel bad about doing this, nor do I feel bad about removing all traces of him from my home. He stated straight out that he will never apologize for what he has done, so I he can stay to himself. I am very ill, permanently disabled and I cannot let him abuse my valuable resources by having to nurture hurt feelings and broken hearts...Precious resources that I need in order to live each day. I am done with him. I am now the parent of one child.

I've recently accepted that my adult daughter suffers from depression and perhaps is mentally ill. She suffers from social anxiety, doesn't work, even though my husband has offered to hire her. She has made horrible accusations about my husband, I know they are not true. She has stormed out of our home and left suicide notes about how she will kill herself if she stays with us. But her attempts to leave us on good terms have failed because she is trying to go live with people who won't charge her for anything. I live in the shadow of a suicidal daughter who at this moment refuses to speak to me, and i don't know if it would be worse if i told her to pack up and get out of my home and worry about what she will do next, or if i should call an ambulance and have her taken in for evaluation. She has completely cut me off from conversations of any kind. i need help and advice, as i don't want her to hurt herself.

Christine,

I can totally relate to your pain and fear. Coming from a mother who is in a similar situation, I wish that I could tell you what to do. I know that I really needed someone to tell me - no one would/could.

My adult daughter went from very successful to completely distraught in less than 6 months. She used to tell me everything and now I cant get a word out of her. I too think that she is depressed and empty if that makes sense.

She decided a week after her 18th birthday to move out, lied to her boyfriends mother and said that I threw her out. The boyfriends mother came to see me about a month and a half later to tell me that she is not prepared to be on her own but she could no longer live there. Duh!

After being so painfully betrayed, I did allow her to come home. The rules were: Go to school everyday, clean your room and take care of your pets. None of which were followed. After 5 weeks of the same conversation, I finally told her that she is an adult and that when living arrangements dont work out.. adults make other arrangments.

I have to admit that I thought it would be a wake up call but instead on the 6th week, I asked her to make other arrangements at the first of the month. (the 18th) She was gone the 19th & 20th so I texted to see if she was alive or if I needed to file a missing persons report.

She replied that she was fine and making other arrangements and set a time to get her things. Even as she was moving out I couldn't get the one answer that I wanted - why were we here? Why had her life changed so dramatically in such a short time? Why had she suddenly cut me out - for no reason that I am aware of. My answer - because this is the way it has to be.

I cant fully tell you how frightened I was and still am for her. What I can tell you is that in her first departure (no notice - just a note and no contact) I learned that I cannot be held hostage by my childs will to live her life as she pleases. Our family shouldnt be in a constant source of turmoil because of her action/in-action. I learned that I have given her everything she needs to be successful, she just needs to listen within and hear it again.

As she took her belongings that I night, I told her that I loved her more than anything else in this world and that if God should take one of us away before I saw her again that I wanted her to know that. And I let her go.

I dont regret it. I let her leave on good terms, at least in my persective. The lies she will tell are hers to own - I know the truth. Sometimes the hardest thing we do as mothers is let them go. Maybe you need to let her go and trust that you have given her all she really needs.

And then, get antidepressants and dogs... lol They are so much better behaved than children! And they never think that they want to be anything but "their mother". Don't worry - she will come around. Just find a way to be there with love. If it's too painful for now... then limit contact as a means of self preservation. As a way to define who you are without the single label of parent, which I am sure you are feeling in spades at the moment!

If you ever need to talk, feel free to email. I noticed that many of the posts are really old but wanted to reach out to let you know that someone heard you and to try to give you some hope. Things I know would have helped me.

Cindy

march of 2010 both my children moved out within a week of each other.It was a total and complete surprise to my husband of 11 years and I. My son was 20 years old and my daughter was 18 years old and at the end of her senior year of High School. From the time my children were small our house was always "the kool aid" house, this continued until the day they moved out. I was informed that they would not come back and to throw their stuff away. I could not stay in that house my life was devestated, I moved and my house foreclosed it didnt matter.July 7th 2010 I was informed they did not want anything to do with me, This is now July of 2011.I dont know what to do, or even how to continue my life plans of family, grandchildren and a happy life.why is this being done? they will not give an answer.

I am so sorry for everyone's pain..and yes, I too am a member of this sad club.
My son's father and I divorced when he was only 1 because of escalating emotional abuse, topped off when I learned of his infidelity. Counseling later told me he was a sociopath. I thought it meant he was a liar...but nothing more. I later remarried, and my son was the only child in the house. We provided him many opportunities, education etc. About 15...it was really obvious that he started being manipulative, telling small lies, and not responding emotionally to anything other than his own needs. After he turned 19...he moved closer to his biological father, and started drinking, drugs and having less and less contact with us unless he needed money. We never received cards, invitations and we were told not to exchange gifts because we had everything we needed, and he didn't like what we bought. Our birthdays came and went, and he wouldnt even call ...the last birthday card I received from him was when he met us at a nice resturant 6 years ago with his wife. My husband bought everyone dinner to celebrate my birthday. They showed up late, and handed me a piece of white paper that was folded. The wife had used a ball point and drew a picture on the front..inside was Happy Birthday! At Christmas we decided to send them a lovely large chocolate basket. They didn't even acknowledge it. When I asked...my son said "Oh, was that from you?"...no apology, no thanks. My son called this spring wanting to borrow money to go to another state for the funeral of a friends brother! I told him I didn't have the money to lend. In April he contacted me and said "we can end this moritorium on gift giving if you buy me a pair of angelfish I want for $125.00. But he said...I called too late, and they had been sold. For his birthday in June we sent him a birthday card. The day before his birthday..he emailed us saying that since we ONLY sent a card (for his 29th birthday), he feels we are SUPPOSED TO BE THE PARENTS, and we have failed miserable...so he would no longer have an emotional responsibility towards us....dont write, dont call, I wont respond. And he hasnt...
I too dedicated my life to my family...and I have seen a counselor, talked to everyone who knew us to see if they have any idea why he would do this...and everyone says he is either a sociopath like his biological father, or the drugs and a narcassistic personality are at fault. They say...run away, and do not let him vicitimize you. How a Mother does that...I think is impossible. All I know now is that no matter how hard I pray, or keep busy, or volenteer my service...as soon as my mind is quiet, my screams of my broken heart have me in a panic. I know it sounds dramatic...but other Mom's out there will know just how loud the pain is. God have mercy on us all.

@christine_brown_live_com

Hint - if your daughter "made horrible accusations about my husband" but you "know they are not true" - maybe, just Maybe, you're wrong. And they are true. And it's why she's depressed and suicidal. Maybe he abused her, and you are in denial about it. Just go look at Cosby's wife, or Sandusky's wife - denial is a powerful force.

I have been estranged from my three children. Just recently my younger daughter told me that when I leave my husband is when I will get everyone back. They have made false accusations about my husband treating them badly and now have laid this ultamatem at my feet. This is from the daughter who moved in with us, pregnant WITH her boyfriend and their dog. She lived with me until my grandaughter was a year old and now is rarely letting me spend time with her. I am beside myself with emotional pain, frustration and disappointment.

I also stated just those words when my 5 children were small. My oldest was only 14 at the time and I was speaking with a neighbor and she told me she had not had contact with one of her son's for years. I was genuinely shocked. I did not know of such a horrific thing. Could that truly be? Nah, would never happen to me and my kids, NEVER. My eyes teared up as she spoke as I thought of my 3 sons and 2 daughters in a situation like that. I would just stop living and die for sure.
Well, funny thing is life. My oldest son is now 27 in August and I have not had any contact with him since Sept. 26.2009. Almost 6 years. Guess what? I was right, I did die. My youngest son say's that mom must of died when West left. He saw it all, they all did. I did not cope well. I still have days and nights that are endless and unbearable. I can be strong for so long and not even think of him for months then a song on the radio or a tv show he liked, or one of my kids asks for me to cook a recipe that was his favorite and Im shattered like the day he left. I hope people do not judge, but yield to the notion that it can happen to anyone. Any parent.
He was the one I always had time for, the one I watched sleep in his crib for 2 years just to look upon him. So beloved. My favorite person on this Earth. Even today. My good friend.
I was shocked when I stumbled upon this thread. Each post speaks from my mouth, each tear falls from my eye. We are the same broken mommy.
I will say, the one technique that saved me and my other children is Shunning.
It is the only way. I stole or borrowed it I should say from the Jehovah's Witness neighbor that I have few homes down.
It works for me. I feared all these years of my reaction to him coming back, calling , writing, bumping into him in public. I feared that my mommy instinct would be my downfall . I felt vulnerable and I did not want my family put through anymore of my sons psychopathy.
I will never be a victim again. Shunning keeps everyone safe emotionally and physically for it will not allow me to respond to anything in any way. It is the only way.
I worry that my love for him would leave me open to danger and to fall for his smooth ways just to be harmed in some way or my kids.
Just cannot give him the benefit of the doubt ever. SHUNNING. I can sleep at night now. Less and less I think of him and those incredible 21 years I had in his presence. He is fading away now in my mind. We do not speak his name. Removed all photos and items of his. It feels like I never had that one child almost. It feels better this way, so odd but true.
I could give a long story, but this is long enough. Just wanted to say I did not know so many mom's go through this crap too. And this is some crap boy, It rips you in half and you die.
But through shunning, I have a hopeful future ahead, me and my 4 other children who love me and need me and don't want their brother to ever come back. they say "I miss Weston, but I don't miss all the stuff". The stuff, gosh there was A LOT of stuff.
I tell them..."me too".

I think I was 8 when I first realised there was something wrong with my mother compared to other people. She would spend her days going from one obsession to the next as well as practising differential parenting on me and my siblings. At 14 she started becoming abusive towards me and kept trying to undermine my heterosexuality. By the time I had reached 22 the abuse had become extreme and it reached a boiling point. Throughout this time I found myself confused as to why I had no relationship with my father (despite him living with us) as well as why he tolerated and reinforced her behaviour. When I reached my 30s it all fell into place. I realised her behaviour was negative attention-seeking and my father is one of the few guys who didn't run away from her as fast as possible because he has funny ideas over what normal relationships are. Anyway, I have since joined the vast majority of people they have come across in life and abandoned them. I don't want people like that around me or my own children and I'm not foolish enough to let them back in my life. I had even told my kids they died years ago.

mongoose, you lied to your children and told them that your parent's are deceased? Ooookaaay then. My sympathies to your parents.

I assumed it was a male. Umm, who are you anyway? Someone knows you? I shall be silent from this comment forward. Not about to highschool hassle with a self proclaimed hall monitor. It's just so....Ewww! LMAO.

You assumed a lot of things, didn't you?

I don't know if mongoose is male or female, doesn't seem to have anything to do with his/her problem with the parents.

I'm a longtime gardenweb member & a lot of people know me, although I can't imagine why you ask.