Here's a quote from the original poster: "... I remember, earlier this year, breaking down on the phone to her, sobbing uncontrollably, because of the way both her and her sister completely ignored me, and went out shopping leaving me in a big house on my own, not caring if I lived or died, and all she could say was that she had no time for this (me crying about being left alone,) the girl has no soul..."

Um, if you are crying because your daughters are going shopping without you, YOU are the problem, not them.

If being in a house by yourself causes you to 'break down', again, YOU are the problem, not them.

If being alone in the house while your daughters go shopping is evidence that they don't care if you 'live or die', YOU are the problem, not them.

This is neurotic behavior on your part. It's not normal. Grown women do not break down into crying fits because they are alone in a 'big' house while other family members go shopping. And to see it as evidence that they do not care if you live or die is and evidence that they have no soul, is actually evidence that you are emotionally ill and have very poor adult coping skills.

And your daughter's response that she doesn't have time for this nonsense is a healthy response. Your breakdown is not.

You said you were going to start going to therapy. I hope you do. You'll be happier for it.

Here's the thing about estrangement: If you have more than one child estranged from you--it IS you.

And this business of: "I don't know what I/we did" is nonsense. At some point you were told. If you didn't listen, or you waved it off with "that's not justification for cutting me off" (which is not your decision), then you can't say you weren't told and don't know. Your agreement or approval is not necessary. You may think it's not important or significant, but if they are cutting you off, you are wrong: it IS important. Deciding which issues are important enough to cut you off is THEIR right, not yours, and it's best to respect their decision and LISTEN.

A lot of you parents who get cut off say things like: we had an argument... Why the heck are you arguing with adult children? There's nothing to argue about, they are adults. Do you also argue with your neighbors, coworkers, cousins, etc...? Are you an argumentative person. Well, perhaps that's the reason. And unless you are 6 years old, don't even try the "...well, my daughter started it..." Yes, and you jumped right in.

I have read here a lot: I was an alcoholic, I had depression, I had to work all the time, I had a bad divorce from my ex, etc... But that was a long time ago, and they need to get over it. I did the best I could.

Well guess what? Your best wasn't good enough. Your drinking problem, depression, absence, divorce drama, whatever HURT them, being defensive about it is not going to solve anything. Asking your children to see you as a victim of something whether your addiction, illness, depression, ex, financial woes, whatever, is wrong. Your children will resent it.

Another thing I read here a lot is: I gave them everything, love, security, blah, blah, blah. I raised them right. I dedicated my life to them, maybe I shouldn't have, they turned out to be selfish brats. Umm...no, if they turned out to be selfish brats, you did not raise them right and didn't give them everything.

And then there's enmeshment. If you are a parent who needs to be enmeshed to feel loved and safe, you are very likely to have problems with your adult children. To you enmeshment and 'closeness' (we are very close, we are a close knit family) is the 'right' way. Anything else is unkind, cruel, selfish, unloving, narcissistic, mentally ill. But to adult children, enmeshment does not feel warm and loving, it feels controlling and smothering. And they will fight to get free of you. Autonomy is a compelling developmental milestone in a human being's life just as much as going through the terrible twos is. If you've been damaged by life and fear it and have retreated into enmeshment (and codependency, etc), you may be surprised and hurt and panicked when your child hits that miles and surpasses it. His/her autonomy feels like abandonment and rejection to you. And you explain it to yourself that there's something wrong with your child--but the truth is, there's something wrong with you. Enmeshment problems can only be dealt with professional help. A lot of times, especially with boys enmeshment problems don't show up until your child gets married. Which brings me to...

No, it's not the fault of your child's spouse. Nobody can poison your child against you. No matter how horrible your child's spouse is, (abusive, controling, a ex-con, addict, manipulative, whatever), they STILL can't 'poison' your child against you. Your child's relationship started with you long before the spouse came along, and your child is making his/her own judgments about it. I know that it's soothing to pretend it's someone poisoning your weak-minded little lovebug, but that's not what's happening. Even if the spouse IS bad talking you, your child is matching his/her words against what he/she knows to be true about you in his/her experience. If what the spouse says matches what your child already knows, guess what...it's not the spouse, it's YOU.

Defensiveness on your part, minimizing their complaints, blaming others, focusing on how your child tells you rather than the content of what he tells you are all games you are playing to avoid taking responsibility for your part. NO estrangement, and that is NO without ANY exceptions, is the fault of just one side. If you are estranged from your child, YOU are at least partially to blame, and you need to change some things about yourself.

In the OP, where the poster goes into hyper drama mode of emotional breakdown and wailing about how her children don't care if she lives or dies because they go shopping without her leaving her alone in her own house, she is clearly mostly to blame for the estrangement. She's obviously histrionic and neurotic--but even the daughters have some blame: they aren't handling her well. They shouldn't have to, but fate gave them a drama queen for a mother and they need better interaction skills. However, they weren't here writing for advice, and the mother was.

judy1940-"I am 72 years old and lost my husband Aug 27th of this year and moved from Las Vegas to the Northwest because my 44 yo daughter wanted me to be around her and her 3 sons, I have an adult 43 yo son also living here, He has not spoken to us for years, both have mental illness in their bio families"

I'm sorry for your loss. I know a friend who has two adopted children. Boy and girl. She lost her husband and the son took advantage of her and got control of her estate. Please be careful dealing with these kids, they don't sound like they have your best interests in mind.

Can you move back to Las Vegas? Are there friends you could look up again? At least it would be warmer and there are more resources for retirees there.

Best wishes going forward.

After 2 years of my 36 year old daughter accusing me of not protecting her from her brother 30 years ago, I have disowned her. She told me 2 years ago her brother, 4 yrs older, had sexually abused her when she was 8. They were close as adults until this came out. Since then she has moved away and treated me terrible, calked me names and blamed me. She is bi-polar and refuses to take medication or see a dr. I have told her repeatedly I love her and would help her work through this but felt she needed professional help to overcome the past. Her brother after begging for forgiveness time and again reminding her he was a kid also gave up and wants nothing to do with her. I no longer know what to do and because it hurts each time I try to phone her or when she leaves ugly voice mails ony phone, I've blocked her number. I'm hurting but I just don't feel the same. Somehow I know it will never change and I've decided I need to let her go.

OMG, what cruel people you and your son are: You all acknowledge that your daughter was sexually molested by your son and yet you disown HER not your SON? What are you thinking? Of course she has emotional problems--that's what happens when you suffer from incestuous rape as a small child and your parents don't protect you.

You want this all just to go away and make it easy for you to pretend happy families. Your son raped his sister. You cannot be happy families.

I don't blame your daughter for being angry with you; she's right: You did not protect her from her brother, and you blame her now, and call HER mentally ill (not the rapist) and you disown HER rather than the one who really should be disowned.

And you think YOU are the victim.

It just amazes me how clueless bad parents are.

Please disown your son and be patient, kind and loving with your daughter. And take some responsibility for not protecting your daughter from your son and for not raising your son right. This is a terrible story, you really need to make amends to your daughter and step up to the plate.

rcrjr--

Your son is your child, an adult child, NOT your best friend. He got married and is now centering his life on his wife, not on you. You need to find friends among your peers and stop relying on him.

Your complaints are petty. He didn't have a long enough engagement? He went out of town to his future FIL on Father's Day instead of you? He didn't involve you in the wedding planning? He didn't make time for you before the wedding? He doesn't stop at the house any more? He doesn't want you opening his mail?

This is all petty stuff based on you being hurt that you are no longer the center of your son's life. You need to get a life of your own. Find friends your own generation and stop relying on your son to provide you with validation and entertainment.

He keeps telling you he's busy. Well, he is. He's a husband now and busy creating a life with his wife. He isn't going to be your sidekick anymore.

BananaBread.

I didn�t ask you for your advice. Why don�t you spend your time working on whatever brought you to this forum instead of spewing your nonsense after every post in this forum. It is very clear that you are emotionally bankrupt and I for one don�t care why you�re here. Everyone here has posted their circumstanses except YOU which makes me think you are a fraud and probably someone underage. Get yourself some help!! You need it!!

I am so grateful I found this forum. I am a mother of two adult children. A 32 yr old son who's a police office & a 28 yr old daughter. My daughter stopped talking to me about 5 years ago for no reason. My son stopped talking to me about a year ago. I thought I was alone. I feel like I can't ever get over this anguish & heartbreak. Some days I feel like I'm slowly dying of a broken heart. It truly feels like a death. But I pray every night that God keeps them safe, healthy & happy. Even if its not with me in their lives. After reading some of these posts I have to say we all have a common bond through our pain. We don't know what we did wrong. Some of us do. I feel now after reading these posts I was emotional baggage to my kids. I saw them as an extension of my existence and maybe they owed me for their very lives. But that's not true. It must have hurt them to hear me complain about all the dysfunction in my life and they must have felt helpless and exhausted by my turmoil. Turmoil that was mine to own up to and fix on my own!!! It's not their job to carry the weight of my happiness or lack thereof on their shoulders. It is what it is.... I'm tired of crying & thinking & dreaming of them constantly. Yes... They ripped my heart out but I have a lot more of life to live and a wonderful husband and friends & I've been unfair to these people who want me in their lives and care about me. Today I found this forum and I'm going to continue reading your posts because I know I'm not alone anymore and I'll be okay and maybe even happy with or without my adult children. I wish them love, health and happiness and deep down inside I know they wish the same for me. There's nothing we can do about it. They are adults now and not our babies. We did our jobs and raised them and now they belong to the world and they're adults. You've all helped me. I hope I've helped you too. Thank you :)

Janine407, it does get a bit easier over time from my personal experience and it seems as though you're on your way to becoming whole again. Be well!

Thank you rcrjr. :)
It does hurt like nothing I've ever felt & I've tried everything to get my kids to respond to my emails, phone calls & texts. I've never tried just being happy and letting it all go. Let it Be. I think I'll try being happy one day at a time without my adult children in my life :). If they ever want to reach out to me they know how to find me. If they don't (yes, I perish the thought) I need to take responsibility for my own happiness. They left my womb a very long time ago. I made sacrifices for them as every mother does. Now it's "me" time.

FlowerGardenMuse sounds like a robot. All intellect and no heart. She doesn't seem to get it that everyone doesn't need to go to therapy! Don't we all have a relative like that? How annoying.

Wife left, took everything,( to cause sabotage) inc kids. Two years of struggle to get access; court gave me custody. We now lived in real poverty, but set about having a lot of adventures, and fun. Slowly recovered. Our family was very popular with kids from conventional homes. In fact, one extra girl came to live, with her parents gratitude! Now kids are M40, M38, F36. No contact whatsoever from M40, F36. (but M38 is my best mate!) The other two seem pointedly unkind, but for no apparent reason. Independent opinion is that Mother probably exerts influence, and this is very difficult to contend with. I am seeking constructive ideas, even to the point of a way to confront the mother with a positive opportunity to discuss the past. I am sure I will only get one chance to do this effectively, so I need a good plan. I am inclined towards kindness and civilised ideas.
The struggle to give them all a good life deserves a better outcome than this. Wise thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I feel like an Eskimo left out on the ice!

Dadofthree, I am sorry. I understand exactly how you feel. If you will allow time to become your friend it will get easier. Try not to allow yourself to accept too many indignities thinking that allowing them to treat you poorly will eventually cause them to see the light.

I stood my ground with my son in a similar manner and wouldn't allow him to be disrespectful by not replying to him when he was. He is finally coming around slowly without his wife for now. He is a police officer and is getting promoted soon and just yesterday he asked if I would attend the ceremony so things do change for the better.

You did the best you could for them and that counts for a lot. Enjoy the one child that is still close to you. Many of us here didn't have that option. Be well!

hello.. i am very thankful to have a place to see and share my story, just like many others. I was a single mother of 2( i am now married), raise my kids alone, and did my best to raise them with manors, respect, and i thought i did a pretty good job for the most part. I had issues with my daughter as an early teen, shortly after my commomlaw long term boyfriend passed away from drug issues. although he was great with my kids, he had his own addictions that took his life, and forever changed mine through events that occured after. My daughter became very upset with me after he passed when i decided to get on with my life and move on with the man i eventually married. there were many years of heartache from her rebellious behavior that followed for almost 5 years. I assumed for the most part this was a way of coping with his death. but through coucelling that came after, i found i was not alone in dealing with a behavioral teenage daughter and found most of it others had gone through as well. without getting into too much detail, i will try to explain where/how i got to where i am today. Alone( of course i am still married, but lost and disowned by my children). after the teenage years of disrepect, constant disregard for any rules and her knowing it all, my daughter left my home at age 13. living on the streets , powerless to bring her back from a certain fate of drugs and the lifestyle that comes with it. i had a breakdown from being worried sick and was unable to contiune working, so my now husband, was able to help in me staying home to try to reach my child and stay focused on issues at had. sadly this did not work very well. she was hard to deal with, always knew more than i did of course, and was set on living life her way. after months of pleading and fighting with her and the Ministry to help me, i was able to bring her home for a short while. But she didnt want to stay as there were too many rules. having said that.... time went on.. i convinced her to at least g o into CARE so i could have a shred of a chance to keep a eye on her. I even tried moving out from my house to re interergrate her back into our lives to become a family again. this happened many times, until she was of age..to move on her own. we had at the very least always stayed in contact. i was thankful for that. But she was always a drama queen and somewhat of a manipulator, but i thought i handled this quite well. more years past, our relationship got better, but there was always a strain from her stepdad and her to get along and she was usually the one to sabatoge things. i was in the middle for few years, but worked hard on keeping everyone together. my son and i had no issues and had a great relationship.now..i gave this background on her to show that she is strong willed strong minded, opinionated, but at the same time...usually would come around and realise things werent so bad. then life was a series of visits and fights as she got older, always with the drama.that last 2 years have been the happiest times...but the cause of my worste nightmare. with our realtionship intact, we were all getting along, even if hubby and daughter would sometimes tolerate each other, things were better. then i became a grandmother.Both of my kids had babies with in a year of eeach other. i was elated. life could be better. i work on the road as a truckdriver so i was gone alot at this point in thier lives, but it was new for ua all. we always kept in contact, and even though i havent painted a pretty picture, i had always been able to talk to my kids about an issues and usually through hard work, solve them and move on. but last Nov i was blindsided by my daughters anger and hurtful personality all over again, only this time it rocked my world, and turned it upside down and sideways. forever the drama queen, she sometimes feeds on any drama to make life miserable if she is unhappy. well i made her unhappy yet again. she has treated me with such anger and disrespect, and has involved my son/granddaughter, and as a result, they have had no contact with me Since NOv/12. Now i know i am blame shifting, but i am telling the back side of the story. all my life i tried to give my kids love, and i tried to help them any way i could.Love, money, rides, care, try to be there for them when i could. In the last 2 years while my daughter was creating turmoil, i tried ti ignore what i could and keep the peace because i had grandkids now. i knew things were still unstable but for the most part we were getting along. Then the other drama starting coming from my sons G/f. She had shown a dislike to us from the start. all of a sudden making plans for christmas was an ordeal to include us and things like that because she was unhappy with the relationship i had with my son. he was mereley happy to see us when we came in off the road and would want to spend time with us as we would only be in for a few days at a time, before being gone..for months at a time. so them things got more compicated with the visits, and then he became stuck in the middle becuase she would not want to allow us to visit with our granddaughter. long story short....it was us or her. So he was in a rock and a hard pplace. for the most part he tried for a long time to keep peace. i know it botheres him to not be in my life, si it created stress.This stress was not lost on me either. were made to feel that we were unfit to be arounf HER daughter, but my son would try to take our side, so things were unstable for about a year. then, his g/f got the chance she was looking for. We had made plans to go out with our grnaddaughter one day to the zoo, and i made the mistake of inviting my daughter to come because i thought it would be a happy day for us all to be together. to me that day was wonderful! i finally had both grandkids and my daughter and husband all together and we were enjoying our day. this was in Sept. nothing happened that day except a conversation my husband abd daughter had about my son's g/f. I had been complaining about the way she was treating me and hubby in preventing us from havin time with my granddaughter. it was a grown up conversation, amongest adults. so i was upset and made a couple comments in distaste about her. i was fed up with her behavior and it was getting under my skin. but we ended our day...unknwing that that conversation would later kick me in the ass. weeks later my daughter had been returning to her opinionated self, and rather moody. we had discussed plans for my grandsons Bday and i thought i was not going to be able to make it, due to my job, and i would be out of the province until OCt, this upset her and set her on a path of distruction.but i didnt know it yet. she became angrier with me with every phone call, disrespectful and i was losing strenght to continue to deal with it. So i made arrangments to make sure i would be there. this then brought on the self pity and anger of not wanting me there anyways...but still i came... So on the day of his birthday, we were having fun, regardless of the tension, until i got a text from my son. it turned out she had been so angry with me that she had gone to his G/f and told him things i said about her. which was fine by me, i did not deny it...but then she threw in a couple of adlibs of her own and tried to turn it into my saying things to my granddaughter. when the g/f heard that..she was angry, but then it turned into, well, i must have brainwashed her to mis-behave for her when we dropped her off that night...totally BS. But in turn, this was th ammo she and my daughter created, and she was ready to put my son on gaurde....it was her or me. He was upset that i said it at all, but i explained it was half truths. i tried to plead my case with him on the phone to explain that was not what we did at all. Next thing you know im thrown into this big drama... i argue with my daughter, she yells and says such horrible hateful things to me. My son just stopped talking to me at that point. no one cares that i see what was going on, i know they set me up to fall for comments, and the g/f finally got what she wanted. they said hurtful things, i have gone through much depression, i cry about it all the time. i miss them so much it hurts. And through it all, it seems they dont care. So i try to contact them, i even tried to email to have explainations as to why something so small, would be used to get rid of me. There has to be more to it than that. I have sat up for months thinking of what happened. going throug it in my mind. the hate i felt from my daughter that day, and the feeling of her using me as a tool to get rid of me. I tried to contact them to talk to them after a couple months. My son never did reply, i know for him, its more on his g/f's side than his. I recognise hes doing it to save his relationship, and someday i hope he realises he was wrong, but my forever spiteful daughter has been slandering me all over FB, and to other people, just hateful words that cut like a knife. And i find myself asking, WHat happened?? can they really just be using this as an excuse to rid me from thier lives? I fell that they do not care for me at all. there was more dramas than what i wrote, becasue this would be a book, but at the end of the day...i KNOW what my part in it was, and i cant help but feel set up by my daughter. And when i reached out to talk to her, to open lines of communication, i was met with more distain adn told to stop contacting her. "she was moving on with her life, and going places".. i was shut down. I hurt so incredibly..i dont know who i am sometimes without being a mom. I have a hard time believing my kids would leave me... it makes me sad. and im tryin to continue with my life, because i have too. But somedays, i just think about them non stop...and i miss my grandkids. I know i am missing so much as they are just little. The bonding has been cut off. i continue because i have a wonderful husband who cares for me, and relalises he needs to be there for me. The only thing i can do is wait, and it kills me. the not knowing kills me. i read these stories tonight, and i realise i am not alone. So i thank you for sharing your stories and i look forward to advice on how to cope with my uncertain future without my kids.
Thank you for listening

Tonight I was just watching a bit of youtube. Feeling somewhat helpless and sad. I then googled Estranged adult children and found this thread. I am so sad for all of you. For all of us. I thought I did all the things right. As did her father. We took the things that were wrong in our families and did our best to "right them". Our daughter was given everything, status. Her father is a professional with a doctorate. I too am a retired science teacher. I took early retirement as I am ill. I have SLE. We moved to a nice town to give her a better education (of course for sister too.). Garth Brooks lives here and his kids go to the same school as mine. The girls know his kids too. This is a very fine public education system in the wealthy small town. She lives in a beautiful home. While it is pretty, we don't live beyond our means and it is very modest to how.....we could live....if we had borrowed up to our eye balls. We taught her about money and gave her an allowance. We had her do chores (about 15 to 20 min a day with Sundays off.) We went to church and did the VBS things, with me helping and dad too every summer. She went to camp. She went on a couple of mission trips. She has a beautiful room that I was about to remodel for her when her dad and I realized that things were never going to change and perhaps she needed to move out. She grew up with friends she knew her whole life (My BFs I have known since I was 12, that was over 30 years ago.) I have stable relationships in my life as does my husband. She grew up with the same kids. Good kids who stayed out of trouble (for the most part.) I did projects with her in school. We took nice family vacations together. I gave her wonderful birthday parties and other parties with her friends and with church youth. She had an acre to play as a kid. We bought all the gaming systems, we have a pool table and playroom just for "playing". We did play with our kids and spent time with them. We live in a nice neighborhood. She went trick or treating and did all the childhood things children should do. We bought her all the latest electronics and did keep the computer in the kitchen until she was 16. My daughter began having her issues early in childhood. We tried everything to make her happy. Nothing did. Not guitar lessons, dance lessons, pom squad, soccer, you name it we tried it. We told her she was beautiful. While not gifted in school (partly because of her behavior she was tracked and not given the best of teachers.) we still told her she was so very valuable. She has this amazing talent in art. We sent her to college for two years...she lied to us about classes. Now after nearly five thousand dollars....of our money....she hardly has anything to show for it. She got into this fantasy life of vampires and wolves at about 15. What I thought was a phase.....never left her. While her father and I have had some problems.....we worked them out and stayed together. While we have had some drama in our family, mostly we shielded the girls. While it wasn't a perfect life....it was pretty close to it. I'd give it a B plus. She has a younger sister by 3 years. Her father was very devoted and worked hard. We did buy her a car, but we made her pay $4,000 for a $10,000 car. She had no less than 5 wrecks. She stole from my credit card $1,200 (in total) she stole a lot of coins from her dads collection. We removed the rest of the college money and put it up in the bank at the lock box as I wanted to save this for her to go to school for some kind of vocation. She kept her room so dirty (I keep a very clean house.) that twice I had to kill mice. Whatever rule we made and tried to enforce she just broke. No matter how much we loved or gave....it was never enough. We found out that last year, while we were on vacation, she got some pot so her and 15yr old sister could smoke it. It isn't just us. The things she does on Facebook is shocking. She made a movie with her and her boyfriend basically having sex. Her own Grandma and Grandpa saw this. Everyone in the family did. She doesn't care. However at 20 yrs, Last November....her and I had an argument and she slapped me. Her father told her that she needed to save her money. He also told her that if she ever slapped me again, we would have her arrested and press charges. Whenever she was confronted with her behavior, she always glared at us....like we did something wrong. We tried everything with her. I talked to counselors. I asked her if she wanted to talk to someone. She didn't. But that slap did change things. Now she was an adult and we didn't have to put up with this behavior. We did discuss this with a few of our dearest friends and they suggested we move her out. So we did. She had her last Temper Tantrum on Jan.30th of this year.....and in 5 hours I packed up her things (Where we found she had taken many of our things. including a wallet with $ and gift cards given to her sister...who thought she lost it. This was her sisters holiday money and gifts. Her sister found out that big sis stole the wallet and the gift cards and money.) We are like???? Who does that??? She was given the same amount. Given the same gifts. Her reasoning when her sister asked why she stole?? "I was mad at you." As a family we were dumbfounded. I did realize too...that I have another daughter and the behavior was beginning to take its toll on my younger. So when we asked her to move out. She stayed with friends. She then moved into a house on her own. I tried to buy her some things....like food, things for her room. I tried to set it up for us to have breakfast at least every couple of weeks. We invited her to the house. Then her sister and I went on a road trip to visit friends who had moved "east". Younger sister and I reconnected. It was wonderful. The minute we got back to town....big sis wanted to come to the house and see her. I was like great. So she spent the afternoon. She wanted to see a movie that night, but little Sis was tired (and really didn't want to go.) I told older sister that they could see a movie some other time. My husband supported this too. Our daughter became so angry. Just seething that we had said "no". She hasn't spoken to us in two months. She recently moved to a bad part of town.....she has dropped what little friends she had and is living with some guy who is described as a scary dude. That description comes from "her peers." Then we found out that she dropped out of college and didn't bother to withdraw. So we foot the bill and consequently it has damaged her gpa beyond repair. (She told us she wanted to go into nursing school.) She lied to us for 5 months while collecting $ from us and her grandparents (Who were giving her an allowance....our money was for college...we put into a 529 plan monthly.) Her grandmother cant believe she just lets the lies roll off her tongue like spit. Her little sister wants nothing to do with her. she misses her but not the behavior. Our home has been quiet and stable. However, we love and miss her. We never dreamed this is how our daughter would turn out. I know we are not alone. We have been told by many people, who have confided in us....no knowing what we are going through,,,,that this generation feels "entitled". They take, bum borrow or steal whatever they think they "should have". Without regard for anyone's feelings. Without regard for "how it will look" without regard for "reputation". I know it has to be pretty bad when her boyfriend (Who was dating her for over a year.) contacted me to talk. She became so angry with him, when she didn't get her way. She became physically violent with him too. I don't know where she learned this. Her father and I are not physically violent people. Mind you, we don't let folks walk all over us, but we certainly don't go around hitting people. We never spanked the girls out of anger. Even when they did get a spanking it was never more than three swats at a time....that was so rare. Usually we opted for punishments...not long drawn out ones. We read books, we visited with our friends. So here we are.....she isn't talking to us. I feel like a hostage. I am on chemo therapy. Currently I have a nasty blood infection. The more time goes by, the more I think I wont have to spend with her....as my illness progresses. My husband is upset too. She withholds her affections and it hurts him too. Now I am starting on a slow burn. I told him, that if she tries to warm up to us....for her "Christmas Bonus", I will include her in everything we do as a family, however I am not going to shower her with gifts. I don't even want her over until we get our safe fixed. IF you have advice. Id love to hear. If you have admonishments, keep them to yourself.....nobody beats themselves up harder than her father and I. Thanks!

I stumbled onto this thread/website this morning, at 7:49 a.m. because this morning like every other morning, I wake up and my daughter is immediately in my thoughts. I am looking for answers I don't really believe I'll find. I'm not sure how much longer I can do this. I really think this will be the thing that will break me...and I have always been very proud of my strength. I can physically feel the changes in my heart and my emotions. I can't move forward in anything right now in my life until it is resolved. And I see no hope of that. My situation has it's own uniqueness I guess in that I have nothing really to go on...no explanation...just theories. And I have a new theory ever 10 seconds. That has become my life now...evaluating every scenario in my mind over and over, trying to find peace.
I raised two children. A son, now 23...and a daughter now 26. Their father and I divorced when they were small but he and I have maintained a good relationship over the years. There was never a custody battle or a war over belongings. We went our separate ways, I moved not thirty minutes from where he lives so that they could be with him whenever they wanted. I wanted to keep changes to a minimum for them. I was a very involved mom...volunteered at the school so much that they finally put me on the payroll and I worked there 21 years. Was a girl scout and boy scout leader. My daughter was a cheerleader all through school. I went to every game...every function. I mean I could go on with this forever. I didn't have a ton of money, but I gave them all I could. Long story short, she grew up, got married last October into a wealthy family. I felt we were close...minus the typical mother/daughter arguments. You know, the ones where you just feel they are headed for a trainwreck and somebody has to be the bad guy and be point, blank honest with them for their own good. Yes, I've done that over the years. Also, she has pointed out a couple of times that I was too hard on her brother. Now I will be the first to admit that her brother was one I had to push to motivate. There was yelling at times just to get him through school...to do his homework...stay focused..etc. And thank God he did graduate high school. But there were no blood curdling screams or beatings by any means. I hope that someday she has the most perfect, motivated children God could ever bless her with...and that she never ever has to raise her voice to them...because according to her that is the absolute end of the world. Anyhow, I love them both beyond measure. They are my heart and soul. My daughter is seeing a therapist for depression and on depression medication. She has totally cut me out of her life...just like that. I have two text messages that told me that she needed time to heal and when she was ready, she would tell me. Tell me what? She won't speak to me...won't take my calls, my texts are ignored. She posts these quotes on her facebook page that I'm guessing I am supposedt to get some kind of underlying message from...to the point that I have blocked it from my newsfeed simply because it leaves me more confused. I mean, do we really have to communicate on a public forum??? I tried contacting her via text awhile back and I said I missed her and I'm trying to give her space but I was scared that this void would just grow. Her reply: "I need you to try harder....I need more time....that's all I have for you right now." I know this is vague but honestly...that is how it all has come about. No warning, no nothing. That was 4 months ago. My dad has passed away...I have lost my job...18 pounds and the will to live. My son is the only thing I am hanging onto right now. I have prayed without ceasing. I have not seen a therapist because frankly...I think that is part of her problem. I mean if that's where this is coming from...therapy....who tells a person to stop talking to their parent?

Tinashell, please do go see a therapist or counselor. Having a family member with depression is very difficult, and a good counselor will help you sift through the situation and get some perspective.

Some people with depression cut themselves off from friends and family, and sometimes the reasons have absolutely nothing to do with the friends and family and everything to do with the depressed person.

Hi Tinashell
I can feel your pain has I read your heartbreaking words. I can honestly tell you that I am living a similar life. I am missing out on 2 grandchildren because of a daughter who feels I was a bad parent after she turned 15!
I don't think I was a bad parent and possibly her anger could be from another time when she was younger. I was a single mom too and our time is stretched so thin that its hard to wear every hat.
Enough about me, I want you to know I have been in your shoes, felt like throwing in the towel but its pointless.
First of all our economy has changed everyone, I believe it has depressed our country, not sure why it's not called A Depression-it feels that way.
Our youth are very self centered but I guess it was our generation that created it.
When an adult child stops talking to us and keeps us out of their lives it like loosing a limb. I cry sometimes so hard I think I will go insane. She lives 1200 miles away so I can't get there very often. Over the years of her baiting me with the kids then shutting me out for something I didn't do right I have decided to change me. I would surely die if I didn't.
I can hold my head up and decide that my daughter is toxic to me. I've given her all my best has a mom and still love her completely but she is on her path now. I forgive myself and kiss my grandkids in spirit. I pray to see them and to have a better relationship with my daughter but until then I made changes.

You must make some too. No matter how small, find ways to find fun and new interests. I know sometimes that is hard to do especially if your already depressed from the situation. I am moving slow with my changes so its isn't sunshine and rainbows yet but the weight that fell off of me when I drew a line was immense. But the thing is, if you can find anything to get focused on it will connect you to the new focus and continue on until you are busy and realized your days/nights aren't about your daughter, they are only about you.

I hate to have time pass when estranged from family, babies grow up, life goes on, people change or even pass. It's wasted time to not love each other but you can't make anyone love you or care. You can do that for yourself though. I didn't think I could or would even be worth it but it is.
The energy that flows amongst us touches us all so focus your energy into your direction, you will find brighter days and new adventures you never thought of.
I was injured when my kids slowly moved out of the family home, my divorce was final, I lost my home, car, job, family pet, and every piece of furniture even my bed has been sold to survive. I have no parents or family other than my kids. I have recovered from my accident but now looking for work and that is frustrating! My point is - I know your pain, your mornings waking up and hoping its a bad dream.
Be strong-make changes to nurture you and hold your head up! You have already survived this much, see what lies ahead that will inspire you to look forward to the next day!

I hope things improve.

I can relate to these stories this is my story I have three daughters one 28 years old married with 3 kids, one that is 22 years old but, has a mental illness, and my youngest is 16 years old. I was married for 26 years then found out about all my ex husbands lies, deception, so one night I told him I was leaving him to do some thinking left my youngest in his care until I came back went to stay with friends went to Alabama and got much needed rest I needed was emotionally and physically exhausted taking care of my husband at the time, his dad in and out of hospital, taking care of his needs, my girls, my grandkids, prior to our marriage my oldest daughter was raised by my parents for two years and as I had her from a previous marriage my parents spoiled her and as she got older it didnt get better they gave her anything she wanted they control her with money. This past year I got a divorce had enough of my husband at time lies and adultry my oldest daughter has turned against me, my middle daughter is with her father with her mental illness she has to be under his care and he has turned her against me she hates me, I got full custody of my minor daughter she is my trooper has stood beside me and the lies my ex told on me while I was gone I adbandon my daughter when I didnt sent letters found out he told whole community I ran off abandon her, my family including my parents took sides, church members took sides, I been blacklisted as the bad guy he almost lost our home didnt make payments for 8 months so I came back straightened out got him out of the house took possession and hired me a divorce lawyer got everything I wanted he has not had a job over a year every job he gets he quits has had like 7 jobs. My daughters dont like my new boyfriend but, he has helped me save the home did all the repairs has been good to me and my youngest daughter and now my oldest daughter telling me I will never see my grandchildren she is trying to dictate who I can be with with control my parents are no better they dont like my boyfriend when they dont even know him he is a good guy and he makes me happy the bad part is I live next door to my parents so I been just ignoring them to try keep trouble down to put the boundaries the thing is I didnt realize it until I left how much control they had over me always in my business, telling me what I needed to do, I was always at everybody's beacon call, in their eyes they are always right and I am always wrong and they treat my daughter more like their daughter and me the outsider and yes it does hurt they are control freaks by bad mouthing me with my two oldest daughters, my parents other grandkids, and my mom is always calling people on the phone gossiping you may ask how I know this I went to her house few weeks ago heard her telling people my business she was on the phone, my daughters are mad because I divorced their dad and they believe his lies he has told them and everybody else. I am 51 years old and I just wanted some happiness for once my ex husband also agreed to the divorce but, he played the victim card so well. My oldest daughter sent me a ugly text few days ago I am not giving into her by her playing the grandchildren card I love them dearly but, for right now I cant be around them, my two oldest daughters, or my parents, have set boundaries and everybody is mad. My youngest daughter has been supportive as well as my boyfriend she adores him just wish everybody saw what a good guy he is. The weird thing is after all this happened I asked myself how is it I missed it didnt see how controling my parents were want things their way or no way and they raised my oldest daughter like that she is a spoiled brat anything she wants she gets grandma and grandpa make sure of that and now my grandchildren are calling my parents grandma and grandpa instead of great grandparents. My parents have treated each grandchild differently. Maybe someday this will all get better I am truely happy now, paying my bills, self suffient, do things my way not the way others wanted me to do things.

PS: I refuse to give in to their demands they are trying to break me and my boyfriend up and I know it they are mad because they cant find anything out have dropped all communication my daughter asked me in her hateful text what is going on? I laughed message back nothing going on so nobody has nothing to report back to my parents what they dont know they cant tell. My daughter said I quote you abandon SOME of your children I told her she is a grown adult 28 years old and her sister is 22 years old she is mad to because she cant use me as a babysitter anymore. I changed my phone number, and blocked them on FB. I think they are jealous of my relationship with my youngest daughter. I just pray someday can see my grandchildren but, cant be on her terms letting her come to me, and far as my parents goes I blame them also for their part in this. The hurt and pain of this ordeal cant begin to explain to someone how it hurts. I hope with time and boundaries this all will get better.

I'm a mother who is being treated "like dirt' by my adult children. I have been a great mother to my kids and all they can do is make me feel guilty- about thier lives blaming me for where they are now. My oldest daughter (who is 35)makes more money than I've ever even dreamed of but she gives her money to a 22 year old father of 5 - she has no kids he is a jobless,felon who is in and out of jail, she never even has gas mone,rent money or food and thinks I'm supposed to provide this. And my youngest son won't work at all but he is always telling me lies saying he needs money for bus fair to look for a job, work boots etc.I moved far away from them and I'm not giving them any money or talking to them. Reading the posts from the other parents makes me know I'm doing the right thing. Thanks to all of you

MsGertrude, good for you. You are lucky to be able to move away, it will save you a lot of stress. Enjoy your new life.

Often times it is nothing we have done to make our adult children to become Estranged from us. But we are the continual "Role Models" for our adult kids. It is Healthy for Parents to Create Strong Boundaries when it comes to Respect, Not Over Indulging Them With Material Things, Giving Them Limits and Accountability and Keeping Your Own Household Stable while Taking Care of Our Own Health and Medical Needs. If Our Adult Children are in trouble...it is always good to provide them the "tools" needed for them to make the choice to get help and be accountable for their actions.

Reading the heartbreak that other parents are going thru definitely makes me feel not as alone. I am a single mother of a 38 year-old son. I was 19 when I had him and was separated when he was only 2 months old. I was raised in a Catholic family and was taught values. Unfortunately, I married a man who turned out to be abusive (mentally and physically), he was also a cheater, a stealer, and an compulsive liar. It was probably the best thing for my son to NOT have this man in his life; however, I wish that he could have had a good male role model in his life (other than my wonderful father). Many years after my divorce, I found out that my ex-husband committed suicide in his home (and was found by one of his other children -- my son's step brother). As it turns out, I realized that my ex-husband had a mental illness. I now know this because my son has the same illness. Since my son (Michael) was very young, he had the tendency to lie -- he didn't just lie to cover up for himself ... he lied about anything and everything in life. Then, he would steal money from my family members. He would either do it by forgery, or he would do it in other clever ways). I would also like to add that my son has epilepsy, as well as a brittle bone disease. He was in special ed classes most of his life and, as a result, he did not receive the proper education and has low self esteem. I did "everything" for my son, but - I'm afraid - that I might have done "too" much. Although there have been struggles since Michael was in his early teens, the worst has been the last couple of years when he and his wife separated. Not only did SHE have her own issues (drinking, drugs, etc.), together they had a very volatile relationship, which included lack of respect for each other, as well as domestic violence. His wife has a total of 3 boys (one which her father has raised since he was an infant; one from another father, and one from my son). Because of their issues and abuse, Child Protective Services stepped in and gave temporary custody of the boys to me and my boyfriend for almost a year. During this time, the mother went thru the classes, etc. that she needed to go thru, and my son pretty much gave up. He gave up on everything. Then, he started threatening suicide. I had to call "911" on several occasions, where he was admitted into a psychiatric hospital for up to 3 weeks. During this time, he threatened me, telling me that when he got out, he was going to have a "hit" put on me (he felt that "I" was the one that had the power to get him released from the hospital). He also wished me dead. Once the hospital was no longer able to keep him, he was released. He was living in his van for a period of time and things just continued to go out of control. He would (again) threaten suicide to me but, then he wouldn't answer his cel phone when I tried contacting him. I would be in hysterics, thinking that he was going to kill himself the same way his father did (shot himself in the head). My boyfriend and I would drive everywhere looking for him and would finally go to the police department for help. This went on, time and time again. He would also send me pictures of his hand holding a gun or a knife (on the occasions where he would say that he was going to do it). I spent most of our holidays either crying, thinking that he was going to end his life (even on Mother's Day). It was almost like he was angry at "me" for how his marriage turned out. No matter how much I have tried to help him, he continues to torment me. I don't even know who he is anymore. When he was growing up, we were so close. I would have never guessed that the child that I was so thrilled to have, could be telling me that he wished I were dead. I can't believe that my own flesh and blood could see me so heartbroken, yet he continues to torment me emotionally. I know that he has a mental illness (a doctor at a psychiatric hospital diagnosed him as being "borderline personality" (although it wasn't a concrete diagnosis). What is also very sad is that my son won't really admit that he has a problem. He won't admit that his behavior (when he spirals out of control) can be due to having a chemical imbalance. I have tried everything humanly possible. I can honestly say that the last 2 years have been the worst years of my life. They have been worse than the deaths of my parents, as well as me having cancer when I was 32 years old. It is almost like my son has an incurable disease and I have been grieving every single day for the last couple of years. Although I have an incredibly wonderful supportive boyfriend of over 10 years, and my grandchildren are the highlight of my life, I have never been so sad and have never cried so much. I feel that I will never get peace in my life ... that I will never feel happiness again. I want so badly to be able to have a nice life with my boyfriend, but I just don't know how to get to that place. I am trying to do everything that may help me to get healthy .... I pray, go to counseling, and have taken a course on mental illness.... I'm just looking for a way to accept that my son may never get better. I just don't know how to give up but I am so weak emotionally that I feel like I'm going to have a breakdown. I have finally decided that - if my son sends me text messages or calls me, and starts saying things that affects me emotionally, I am going to tell him that I love him but I can no longer accept the disrespect and cruelty that he is putting me thru. Please - if anyone has any suggestions or input, I would be so grateful to hear it. Thanks so much.

I am sorry that you all have this issue, but then again relived I am not the only one struggling with a child that is so judgmental that it tears out my heart. My son sent me a two and a half page email on why he will not talk to me. He is hiding behind the fact that he dose not approve of the relationship I have with my daughter.who is 24 yrs old. He feels that I should be supporting her, according to him should be paying her part of a mortgage for a house her and he boyfriend bought. I should be paying for her collage,food,medical, etc.. . My daughters boyfriend has been supporting her just fine. She has had a few part time jobs and just recently got a full time job and going to school. And I should be straightening out her boyfriend cause he is going to school to become a teacher. and works as a wielder. My son who is (29 yrs old) is been married for 7 yrs and has been in collage for all but one year when he held a job as a CPA. But has decided to return to school to become a doctor. His wife supports him. They own a home that is currently rented out while he attends medical school in a different state. So he told me that until I meet his expectations he is divorcing me. Well I refuse to explain my actions to my son, nor will I apologize for how I have raised him or his, sister. I owe him no explanations on my relationship with his sister. I will not seek out professional help cause I am mostly happy and have a good life and a great relationship with my daughter. I feel he is the one in need of professional help. Nor will I go back and tell him those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. So maybe one day he will come to realize that he can not manipulate me nor control me. But until then all I can do is love him and tell him that everyday thought his wife, I know she tells him everything I say. All I can do is pray.

My son was worthless, there is no other word to describe him. I don't think he ever did one productive thing in his life. He didn't take care of his babies even after the abusive wife threw a newborn across the room at him because it was crying. Luckily he caught it. He was living on the street, because he was hiding from a warrant for child support. When he became ill a charity set him up in apartment and he died last week alone and unloved. The only sadness I felt was the loss of what should have been between mother and son.

I wondered if he had time to think about his life and what it should have been.

Motherhood is an important part of our lives, but it does not define who we are deep down inside. We are not defined by other people, by their actions, by whether they choose to spend time with us or not.

I do think that many of us have spent so my years looking out for others, sacrificing our time/money for them, that some of us forget to be kind to ourselves.

Being kind means doing things for ourselves. If one is poor, one can manage a little garden, cooking simple dishes and inviting friends, sharing our lives with a rescue puppy (who will be grateful and happy that we are around).

Being kind means that if any person related or not makes us angry or sad, we can choose not to spend time with them.

Every day you wake up, is a new day that gives you opportunity to cherish yourself and be happy.

I'm new to this, not even sure that its still an active forum but want to tell my story. I am dealing with both narcissistic parents and narcissistic daughter. I was born handicapped, 4 fingers on each hand, right arm way shorter than the left and was at a right angle and fingers are mixed up. My head is flattened on the right side, eyes protrude, very small nose, mouth and jaw. My parents NEVER told me why this happened. They told that it "just happened". I went through three pregnancies and was afraid with all three that I would have the same problems with my babies. I never did. When I was 30, my father told me that he made my mother take two "little yellow pills" which they assumed was thalidomyde. They never even attempted to find out what it actually was. This was AFTER my giving birth and worrying about my children. After doing research I found out it was Metholtrexate. A drug frequently used by midwives in the 60's to cause abortions and used now to abort tubal pregnancies as well as immunity problems. I also found out that it decreases folic acid. If my mother had told a doctor what she had done, with folic acid suppliments she could have stopped many of my malformations. She "didn't want the doctor to know what she did". She was never concerned about her baby, she was always concerned about herself. I suspect the reason I did not spontaneously abort was because my mother did not take the required dosage. She wanted to trap my father into marriage. He was engaged to someone else at the time. My parents have done unbelievably mean things to me during my life. Thankfully, up until the time I was 5 and HAD to go to school, I was mainly living with my paternal grandparents. My brother never visited them. I asked my mother why I was always with my grandparents. She said, "because they wanted you". What wasn't said, "my parents did NOT want me". My father told me many times, the first time he saw me in the crib he wanted to smother me with a pillow but his mother stopped him. I was the shrine queen when I was 17, at the Packer game. Instead of praising me, my father called me, "the queen of the cripples"! I was frequently slapped in the face for just disagreeing with my father, and he would just laugh, like it gave him pleasure. I was taught I was NEVER to question my parents in anything, because there would be extreme enjoyment in slapping me in the mouth. When I confronted my mother about it just recently, (I am now 53 years old) I was told, "lots of people have been hit, get over it!" I was a meek girl, having been made fun off all my life by bullies at school, I was in no way a rebellious girl. My mother told me, "I never have to come to your teacher conferences, cause the teachers only have good things to say, its a waste of my time". And she didn't come to my school things. I was a pom pon girl and not once did she come to see me cheer. (when both of my daughters were cheering I was at every game and competition). My parents didn't feel it was necessary for me to receive anesthesia when my teeth were getting drilled with cavities, because of my fetal metholtrexate syndrome my mouth was very small and my teeth were very apt to be cavity filled. I was expected to just endure the pain of a dentist drill drilling my cavity filled teeth. My parents never were without anesthesia, my brother was never without anesthesia, just me, "I was special so I didn't need it"!!! I was relatively an outcase socially so the first boyfriend I got at age 13 I stuck with for two years. At age 15, my family went to Disney World and Daytona Beach, (The first and ONLY vacation w had ever gone on) And was feeling confident because other guys were flirting with me. I was going to break up with my boyfriend. My parents told me, "you'd better not, you are sooo lucky that ANYONE likes you with the way you look!" I married this man that I was so lucky to get. I played by all the rules given by my parents. Do not go to college, do not get a job, have children, stay home with them. I was the most wonderful mother. I was the boy scout and daisy coach and girl scout leader. I got all the kids in the neighborhood always by my house playing in our pool, making haunted houses, doing talent shows, etc. etc. etc. I worked incredibly hard to help my middle daughter with her school work as she had a very hard time. My mother only made art projects in which she received the credit, as she was arty. She made me clothes when she started sewing, all kudo's for her. My parents never offered to take the kids when I was having trouble, like after the births etc. My mother in law did offer though. My parents visited for an hour and then went home. My mother never worked outside the home, she made little crafty dollies, like a little girl who never grew up. SHe never paid a bill, never even put gas in her car. After 20 years of marriage the "perfect man" decided to have an affair with his second cousin and we got a divorce. I had to get a job. My father offered me a job at his insurance office. 10.00 an hour, no vacation, no health care, no sick days. I took it. I began to look for jobs with benefits. I found one that paid 12.00 per hour with vacation, 401K, sick days, health insurance etc. It was 60 miles away. My middle daughter was in her last year of high school. I didn't want to uproot her as she had her friends and her pom pons etc. I asked if my parents could take her in. They said yes, but required me to pay 600.00 a month for her upkeep. I was only getting 222.00 a month child support for her. At my father suggestion I also gave her my 12,000 convertible for 6,000 and I aquired a new loan of 15,000.00, (because thats what parents do???? Not MY PARENTS however) I had also taken a loan for my eldest son for 6,000.00 for my sons car a GT3000, that my father found for him. Even though I was paying 600.00 a month to my parents, my daughter still asked me to pay for all school fees, school lunch, gas for her car, insurance, etc. I also paid for my two daughters to take yearly vacations to Disney World because my mother was dying and we would never know how long she had! (In the year 2000, the same year as my divorce, she got breast cancer) I NEVER went to Disney World though, I couldn't afford it for myself. I also had to stay and take care of my fathers office. NEVER did my parents EVER offer to pay for a vacation to Disney World for me. Even though my father made 160,000.00 a YEAR and I made 20,000.00 a year. But they REQUIRED that I pay for my kids to go with them!!!! I believe, now that my eyes are opened, that my father was just pocketing my money. He felt it was his right as I left and he had to actually PAY a secretary a living wage. At about 2 years after my divorce I also met a nice man, with a son who was the same age as my youngest daughter (I have three children) We are still together today. My parents ALWAYS hated him, and they recently actually said so. I asked why? They said, "I don't know, I just do"!
I got took a course to become a paralegal so I could get a higher wage etc. I did get a job as a paralegal with my state. I got good benefits. All this time I was living about 60 miles away. I was not married because it was just me and my youngest daughter, I was not going to marry until she was out of the house. I would take many trips to see my son and daughter, at least once a week or more. I would have my whole family up for Thanksgiving and Christmas and Easter, even though I only had a small place and my parents had a 250,000 home. Everyone would come late, eat, and then leave without even helping me clean up. I was expected to do this, and with my history I NEVER questioned anything. These things were starting to nag at me little by little though. My middle daughter had an opportunity to move to California for an acting career. I fully supported her and encouraged her. We agreed not to tell her grandparents as they were not in agreement. She was close to me at that time. She appreciated my support. She would call and tell me what was going on in her life. She actually made a national film, but before too long, the bottom fell out and she moved back home. She lived with my parents for a short time, until she couldn't take my father anymore. He was treating her very meanly. (probably because he wasn't getting paid to have her in his home) He often told me that my daughter was "fake". He believed she would say "I love you" But she never felt it, she was just using everyone. When my daughter came back from California I did notice a change in her. She was cold. Most of the time I would call her, she wouldn't answer. I finally just gave up and let her call me. She would sometimes, not often. My mother also wanted my girls into pageants (She did a MRS pageant when she was 38, and she always bragged that she won "best body" as a senior in high school. I looked this up and it was not correct, she just had an incredibly high view of herself) My mother expected me to pay for all the entry fees and costumes etc. I was going so deep in debt, but always wanted to be a "good mother". Since I moved away my parents were constantly telling my girls how I deserted them for a man. No matter what I said, or did, they kept telling my girls that. I kept on supporting my daughters. My middle daughter became a dancer for the Milwaukee Bucks. I drove in to go to many of the games just to watch her. I was very proud. At age 45 my knees were starting to hurt incredibly much. I went to the doctor and he took an x-ray twice. He said "either there is something wrong with my x-ray machine or your knees. He told me that my joints, ALL of them were really worse for wear because of my metholtrexate syndrome. He didn't even know how I could walk because he could see there was almost nothing holding my knees together, nothing under the knee cap. He said that he doesn't even think my knees or other joints could even be rebuilt because they are so empty. I worked for another 5 years. I began to have extreme pain in my joints from arthritis. Finally I obtained permanent disability. I found that cold weather, I was originally from the Midwest and it was very painful there. My youngest was finally on her own, and my fiancee was ready to retire so we bought a home together in South Florida, much better for my joints. In 2007 my mother got a bout of Ovarian Cancer. She was fully cured from breast cancer. (During her breast cancer I would make her dinner, clean her house, take care of her and my father) In 2007 my mom did Chemo and Radiation. She was cancer free for two years. In 2009 it came back. This was the year we bought our Florida home. My fiancee needed 6 months before he could officially retire. I wanted to be down in Florida fixing things up, as it was purchased in lieu of foreclosure, a beautiful home, with an inground pool and hot tub, etc....but it needed work. I needed someone to help me move down with all my stuff, I didn't want to drive all by myself. My father said he would only do it if I bought a new car, he wouldn't trust driving in my 2001 car. So, another 12,000.00 loan. I had been trying to get ahead, but with all the drain on me from my kids, my parents, etc., I was back up to oweing 19,000.00!!!! My parents didn't care, nor did they offer any help! During 2009 to 2012 my mother and daughters were at my Florida home about 5 times a year. The last year, 2012, my mother was staying with me for 8 months while I drove her for all he chemo treatments 3 hours away, EVERY WEEK! I was helping her find new treatments like cyberknife, connecting her with cancer boards on line to help her with anxiety. At this time my middle daughter would call ONLY before holidays and birthdays. The rest of the time it was like I wasn't even alive. She had quit dancing for the Milwaukee Bucks and was going for her doctorate in school psychology in Virginia. She was still having me pay for all flights to come to Florida, go to Disney World (SHE WAS 28 YEARS OLD) I thought I could buy her love. NOPE! When she and her sister were here, I would be ignored. I would pay for all food, flights, gas, everything. They wouldn't even lift a hand to help in cooking or cleaning up. They would sneak into my cupboards and try to find alcohol to take into "their" bedroom, close the door and have their own party. THey would go into my mothers "room" and be talking about me, leaving me out of everything. My daughters would go into my closet and steal clothes they liked and NEVER give them back. I was so sad when they visited. I was trying so hard to be a good mother. I never was judgemental. I was afraid to be. My middle daughter has always been tempermental. At 2 years of age, she got a scratch on her face. She saw herself in a mirror and began screaming. She was always a screaming baby. She could never accept criticism. I was trying to get the closeness that we had before she went to California and got the prodding from her grandparents. My daughters and mother had NO problem criticizing me though. They hated my clothes, (except they stole them) my hair, (too long, to light) My lifestyle, (I drink an occassional beer. My pool was too shallow and small, etc. I felt horrible about myself when I was anywhere near my mother and my daughters. I have so many new friends who do NOT treat me like this. I am an outgoing, friendly caring person. I was near the end of my rope. For the 8 months I was doing all this for my mother, my father never came down once. HE could have, but he didn't want to. Finally he came down in order help her back to the Midwest. The last night they were at my home my fiancee was up in the Midwest visiting his son, (they made sure he wasn't there). They sat me down and told me they hated me always, they hated my fiancee, they didn't like my "lifestyle" (my mother had been after my father every since I moved down here for them to move down here. My mother and father were jealous, after all a person like me isn't supposed to have good things, especially better than theirs) And they said I was a beoch. I was very upset, but still took it and said goodbye to them civilly. I stewed for another month and then confronted my mother on the phone. I said, do you really think I'm a beyoch? My mother said, "Yes, you are a beyoch!" I said, "mom, you have never really supported me my entire life, how can you say those things and support my father after all I have done for you and my girls." She went ballistic and shouted "I have always supported you, everyone else HATES you". (They hate me because of my parents) My mother said, "you are out of the family, I hope you die! I couldn't believe it. I tried to talk to my eldest daughter. I also told her that I found out I HAD BREAST CANCER! She said, "Mom, I don't care, go ahead and die. I was just using you to see my grandma and my sister." I tried to reason with all of them and ask them why they thought all of these things were okay to do to me all my life. I have been cut off from my entire family. Even my aunt (mothers sister) who I had in my home many times even though she is a raging drunk who starts drinking as soon as she wakes up, has cut me off! My mother was getting next to death, and for me, I called her and kind of made ammends. She wanted to fight and I said, we both said mean things, lets just be friends, no deep talk, just associate as if we are neighbors. I talked to her right before she died. I went to her funeral. My middle daughter ignored me. My son is fine with me. My youngest is under the thumb of her sister. She is fine if her sister is not around. I found out that my middle daughter is getting married. She tried to hide it from me, but I am a paralegal. I also called her at the time I called my daughter and offered to just be her mother, not a friend, not someone to use. I took responsibility for that. I said, "its my problem that I let you use me." I guess it is. I have done alot of soul searching. I have gone through cancer, and my entire family knows about it, they deny that I have it. ?????? I guess it makes them feel better. I will never speak with my father again. I know he blames me for having to get married somehow. My parents are both narcissists and my daughter is also a narcissist. I do not deserve this! I was the best mother and I still am! I rushed to my middle daughters aide every time she got a new place, scrubbing on my hands and knees so she had a nice place. She graduated college, I came up from Florida and catered the entire party for her. I have done for her all my life and would if I could, but I know she will never LOVE me. She can't, its her "handicap". She's not evil I guess, just sick!

Hi:
I read your post and it looks like no one saw it. I wonder if you will even receive this reply. What happened to you is beyond .. beyond. I believe both of your parents are sociopaths and I am so sorry that there are "beings" who live amidst us who are like this. I hope you have no further contact with any of them and I hope you are getting therapy to deal with all of the pain. Yes, a good way to look at it that is less painful to us is to think of them as very very sick. Which they are!
There seems no way for you to contact me. Please know that you are in my prayers and that I hope that you can free yourself of these demons and of these memories.
Thank God that you did not turn out like they did. I would rather live in all my pain rather than for even one day be a person with no concscience.
I am so very very sorry. I know hell. I have been there and back ... well never back really. So I do get it.
Write back. I will look for your response if you wish to do so.
Kate

To Kate, thank you for your reply! It looks as though this forum isn't really active anymore. Since I wrote last I tried to contact my youngest daughter for help. I had a biopsy to check for uterine cancer because of post menopausal bleeding and pain. It came back clear, but I still wish an hysterectomy just cause of my moms problems etc. I asked my daughter if she could help me during recuperation, I would pay her fights, expenses, etc. she said , no, she has to work, last time she was off was thanksgiving and her gams funeral! BTW, thanksgiving was at my fathers house where all were invited, includingy ex-husband, but not me! Basically she can go anywhere anytime except to help me! I'm taboo! My middle daughter has fully indoctrinated my youngest! There is nothing I can do! But, maybe it's for the best! With my health and financial problems, they are actually doing me a favor. By the way my email is sxyblnd2002@yahoo.com

I'm so sorry.

One thing I've learned is that nobody is "the only one" to whom *anything* has happened.

It's all an old old story, as old as the earth, I guess.

& the way the story goes is that the next generation becomes either the next victims of the abuser or the next abusers of the victim.

Some people are just mean devils, narcissists, sociopaths, people who delight in tormenting their 'nearest & dearest'.

The only thing you can do is get away from them.

Years ago, I terminated contact with my mother & my brothers, & I feel just fine.

I wish you the best.

We have had to break away from my son because of his odd behaviour. He is an alcoholic (37 years old) and we think he must be on drugs as well. He and his wife have split many times but this last time was 2 years ago and I think now she will stay away from him. They have 3 children ranging in age- 13, 7 and 5 years old. He always has taken them every second weekend and sometimes more often. He has always paid support until the last couple of months. He is in construction and has had a fairly steady job except for a few weeks here and there. He has not paid rent in 9 months, his hydro was cut off and he has a huge gas bill. The place he lived in was a dump (he did not take care of it) and the fellow who shared the place was just as bad. My son never has any money. He lost shares in 2 rental houses as he went bankrupt. He owes everyone money. He has come to the cottage for years every second weekend with the kids and is good with them during the day but a night gets drunk and does not get up in the morning. so my daughter and I take over to get their breakfast etc. Usually he will sit by the fire with his 13 year old son until at least midnight and then his son would go to bed and he would stay there (half asleep) until 1 or 1:30 come in, eat whatever he could find and leave a mess all over. Food on a plate, food dripping down the cupboards and on the floor. It is disgusting. We took him in about 2 months ago and said he could stay for a couple of months as he was going to AA. He stopped going to meetings right after that. We gave him jobs to do and paid him so that he had money. ($20.00 per hour...which I think is good money).Anyway he got a job up north (close to our cottage) and stayed there for about 1 week, then brought the kids up for the weekend. Got drunk, came in at 1:45 AM and woke my husband up making a noise in the kitchen. The next morning we told him he is no longer welcome to come to the cottage or at our home. He left all kinds of belongings at his old house and his landlord was good enough to have us come and go through some of it. We took some things that we felt were important to the kids. His clothes and other belongings are here. I emailed him that they were cleaning out his house. We have not heard from him and I understand that but he has not been in touch with his kids. His wife told him he could not have them if he is using. He told my daughter, his wife and his step-sister that he is on Meth. I am just so upset, I cry half the time when I am alone. My heart is broken and I am so embarrassed to have raised such a person. I feel so bad for his kids,,,,they miss him. How do you ever get over this?

I'm so sorry.

I don't think anybody ever 'gets over it'.

You just blow your nose & make sure the kids have groceries, a roof over their heads, shoes, clean clothes, & clean sheets on the bed.

Make sure that they get to school, & that someone helps them with their homework when they need/want it, & that they know that you not only love them but like them & want to know that they're busy & happy.

Listen to them.

It has to be done anyway, & a bonus is that it keeps your hands & your mind busy, & it makes you feel good.

I wish you the best.

We are all in the same boat. And to the people who call US narcissists. The definition of a narcissist is love of self. If we were narcissists, by defination, we wouldn't even care about estrangement. The fact that we do care, shows a deep emotional connection to someone other than ourselves. This is why it hurts so much. We have hearts, we have feelings, they do not. There is no pain, no missing us, no caring. No real hearts, no real love. And I believe no real happiness for them either. Whatever caused this, heredity, some mixup in the birthing process, divorce, whatever, it is in their own minds. Another thing I have found is that, a parent can apologize over and over, and it doesn't matter, all they think about is them, and if you ever question, you are out of their lives. Its not normal, its a sickness. Just like my handicap. I know they can't help it, but it hurts just the same.

I just gave up trying after 45 years! Thank God.

I am so sad but comforted in seeing that I am not alone. My adult daughters have decided that I am to be exiled from their lives. I miss my grandchildren terribly. I was never a perfect mom far from it. My daughters have great jobs and are successful. I used to work in a nightclub till 3am five nights a week. I know I could not attend school recitals and programs. With no child support I did what at the time I thought was right. When my father died they distanced them selves from me. I am not allowed to see them or my grandchildren and it hurts terribly.. I have suffered from depression and anxiety most of my adult life and realize mistakes I have made. Saw a therapist for 2 yrs or so nice person but cannot say it helped.

I am thankful for this forum to go to, so that I don't feel alone. I am going through a terrible time right now, and my both adult children are treating me like dirt. Their Father has just been diagnosed with dementia and is in stage 3 kidney disease. He has a badly infected foot and leg, and needs all the love he can get. He had to be transferrred to a Nursing Home an hour from me (the only Medicaid-Pending bed available), which causes me a great deal of stress. I can't be there every day, due to the road closing from rain & flooding (Texas) and they told me the other day I din't CARE about their Father!! OMG! I was in tears on the phone with my Son, who lives in Nebraska, and didn't even bother to call his Dad this year on Father's Day! He had no right to lash out at me, when he isn't here to see how much I do and care for his Dad. I have no partner to lean on, so it is very, very hard to keep composed and remain strong. I was in the hospital myself during this whole ordeal, and my Daughter told me "you just wanted attention!". It is so unbearable at times, the only reason I go on is for my sweet loving husband of 50 years. My Faith in God is what has brought me this far.

I'm so sorry.

"You just wanted attention" seems to be the venomous accusation people make when you're getting the attention that they feel like they're entitled to!

My mother (the crazy person/narcissist/sociopath/child beater) used to blow off my younger brother's bawling fits of despair the same way.

If no one was there, she'd point her finger at him & narrow her eyes & say, "Stop that crying or I'll give you something to cry about!"

If someone *was* there, & they were concerned about his obvious distress, she'd frown & shake her head & say, "He just wants *attention*!"

Don't let it get you down;
take care of your husband & be sure the legalities are in order;
when family members treat you badly & leave you to do all the hard work, they always seem to turn up with their hands out.

& change the locks on your doors;
my best friend's mother returned from her husband's funeral to find that her son (my friend's brother) had come into the house during the funeral & stripped it of everything valuable.

He said he knew Dad wanted him to have it.

Never mind that the will left it to Mom or that it was community property & he took Mom's half along with Dad's.

Thank You for understanding what I am going through. It still hurts, even though I know my kids are the ones who need help, not me. My Son called me "evil" in an e-mail the other day, and told me to get some psych help and maybe God would forgive me. For What? Taking care of his Dad the best way I know how? I eat, sleep, and breath about my darling husband, and it kills me to be an hour away when anything happens. The other evening I got a call that they found him on the floor, and thought he was sleepwalking. I went in the next morning, and demanded they take x-rays of his chest where he was bruised. No cracked ribs, but very sore. He fell - why didn't they admit it? If I didn't keep constant watch over his care, no telling what would happen to him. Anyhow, I am here doing the best I can, and if that isn't good enough for my adult kids who act like schoolchildren, they can go to ----. I can't take any more abuse.

Calling someone 'evil' & bringing God in to do their dirty work are popular too!

Take care of your husband, forget about the kids, & protect yourself.

I wish you the best.

i have 4 kids all estranged. in their words "i was a horible father because i asked them to help.
having spent my las few years,working at a juvenile detention facility i learned a lot.
this generation was intentionaly taught not by our will but by mandate from our government, to not be taught respect and fear. spanking worked from the beninning of time we were not allowed to do that. pulling their load around home and inforcing it was not allowed.
these kids will be living in anorchy. maybe they will seethe light, naybe they won't

so it's the government's fault that kids become estranged from their parents, or it's the government's fault that kids end up in juvenile detention?

& it's the government's fault because the government won't let you hit your kids?

I wish to he!! the government, or somebody, anybody, had had the power to stop my mother from hitting us.

'not be taught respect and fear. spanking worked from the beninning of time'

Yes, fear does work, & hitting does reinforce fear, but only for the time the assailant has the power.

I'm not surprised your children are all estranged from you, but I worry about those kids in the facility at which you work.

I can't tell if anyone is still reading/posting on this thread, but I am so confused about how I got where I am now---estranged from all three of my adult children. I know it started with the oldest and youngest getting mad at me for maintaining contact with my middle son who is a chronic alcoholic. Eventually, I became just as angry with them for refusing to let him know that he was still loved as their brother. He never asked anything from them except to keep caring about him even as he became homeless and came close to dying many times. Long story short, he got a year's sobriety under his belt and asked to come live with me until he could get a job and get back on his feet. He's been here two weeks and sleeps during the day and talks to his girlfriend on the phone all night. This morning, I told him he was not holding up his end of our agreement and he went off on me blaming me for his entire life and using language toward me that I've never heard from him before. I told him I had made my home safe after being married to his violent when drunk dad (deceased) and I wasn't going to be treated like that in my home again. So here I am with a son in my home being verbally and emotionally abusive and with no money or car with which to leave. I know I did my very best raising my kids as a single mom but know I must have made mistakes along the way. I also know I did nothing to deserve the way they have disrespected me in the last few years. I feel sick tonight and just want them to all to go away and stay away so I can find the strength to go on. I survived a lot in my lifetime with God's help, but I feel like He has deserted me.

Sandi, I'm so sorry.

Please get some guidance & support, maybe from al-anon.

Alcoholism is a disease, but it's *more* than a disease;
it sucks whole families, whole generations of families, into its whirlpool, spinning them into a nightmare of anger, guilt, co-dependence, abuse, & misery.

A police detective neighbor, who had worked on alcohol & narcotics cases his whole career (doesn't *that* sound like a fun job???), once told me that, no matter who a person is, no matter what their background, intelligence, religion, income, no matter who they are before alcohol enters the picture, once they're addicted, they're all the same person, & that person *is* the addiction*.

That person will lie, cheat, & steal (if he hasn't started stealing from you yet, he will; lock up your valuables, your checkbook, & your credit & debit cards, & have all your mail sent to a post office box).

He'll manipulate, intimidate, threaten, punch, kick...
that person will do anything to keep the addiction fed.

Doing what you're doing for your son won't help him, it'll ensure that your life will be unendingly miserable, & it'll endanger you.

The abuse will not stay at the verbal & emotional;
it'll escalate to physical threats & then to 'pushing' & shoving & then to hitting.

Please please take care of yourself.

I wish you the best.

I have a question, that I'm sure what the answer will be, but I need some input from people who are going through the same thing that I am. I have a verbally abusive daughter who will be turning 37 in a few months. For my birthday, she put my present in a gift bag, crammed it into a postal envelope and mailed it to me. We live approximately 10 miles from each other. Her birthday is coming up as I said, so, what should I do? The same thing that she did? She did not call me on your birthday, however, she sent me an email later in the evening stating that she hoped I had had a good day. My daughter has been verbally abusive to me ever since i divorced her father when she was 8 yrs old. I did not realize what she said to me or the lack of, was verbal abuse at the time until I have read some of your posts. She treats me similar to the way that your abusive adult children treat you. She never calls me unless it's something that she needs. What should I do about the birthday?

Mail her a present, approximate same value/style as what she sent you. Then email a "Happy birthday". Give no more than what you got. If you do less, she'll be taking note. If you do more, you're just wasting your energy. Let her set the tone, and then get on with living your own life.

Besides suhipup's advice, I think you'd find value in seeking a therapist's advice on how to better protect yourself from your daughter's abuse. He/she can offer words of wisdom and/or tools to use to "change the dance" you've been in with your daughter for the last 29 years. At the minimum, you'll feel less victimized and, who knows, maybe your changes will cause your daughter to become more introspective about her (unfair) attitude about you.

Wow! I thought my son was bad but still ... I can relate on some level to these comments and stories. I always say no one can break your heart like your own child. It's a different kind of heartbreak that slices through to your soul.

My son is a good young man but man oh man is he stubborn. Stubborn to the point it's heartbreaking. Just got off the phone with him asking what are his plans for the future. His response was, "You know, I am not going to talk to you because you just disrespected and insulted me." I'm thinking, "How on earth is asking what your future plans are disrespecting and insulting?" He just doesn't want to plan a future, no goal, no college, nothing. Next he'll go on silence for a while. Mind you, he was married a little over a year ago, New Year's Eve 2013. After I told him he's too young at 25. Young in terms of not planning a future. He went and married anyways to prove me wrong. Well, I was right, now he's going through a divorce. His wife is divorcing for the same reason I am questioning him ... no ambition. But he can't see the ocean because of the waves.

My son is an only child who has had the best life. Better than all his cousins by a long shot but he can't see this either. He complains and blames. For what?! I have no idea. I made his life so comfortable. Yes, it is narcissism. He feels he doesn't have to do anything. Both his father and I, who never married are products of education. We both pursued college degrees and entered the workforce. His father was never really a part of his life but he sent monetary support. Me, I was the sole breadwinner with a nice career that I grew tired of and now back in college to make a career change. So I have no idea how to motivate him and at times feel I am at fault.

Thank you oilpainter for your words, " Their actions are THEIRS not yours, and it does not mean you have no value." I was struggling a bit after the phone call till I read your words. Maybe it's me and my expectations.

Well, I'm going to heed the words I've lived with all my life that have served me well - If you don't know what to do then pray. And I'm going to speak with a therapist. I need some counseling. One child, two children, three children ... it doesn't matter. I have one and it's just as hard.

Im afraid that your opinion is more than a bit offensive, to say the least. To not only imply, but to actually come out and say, "that all these problems are a direct result of all the adults (kids) having a mental disorder, more over, they are all NARCISSISTS" says MUCH more about you than about your daughter. How dare you say that all of us, estranged adult children ard narcissists and have mental problems? Has it occurred to you, possibly your daughter, and many others are NOT the problem? Maybe your daughter has a reason she treats you the way she does. Maybe part of the reason is YOUR turning the blame on her....YOUR attitude may have something to do with the estrangement. You say she picks up her little sister every weekend, so she must not be completely self-absorbed. However you were the one throwing a fit over a gift? I'm not going to go any further because I feel, it would be a waste of my time. All I can tell you is look in the mirror while you're pointing fingers.

Kassie - you are responding to a thread that is 4 years old. I am glad the person you are reprimanding is no longer here to read your post. Take your last line and apply it to yourself. People come here for support, not abuse.