nick at night using disgusting word....

believer

Just a word of warning for those of you that have children watching the "icarly" tv program on nick. My 10 year old came and asked me what the phrase..."Hob Knocker" meant. I went to ask.com and found out. I suggest that you do the same. The phrase is pronounced by someone with an accent so it sounds a little different than it should .....you'll understand when you go to ask.com why I am not listing the correct pronunciation here.

I wrote to the station and to the FCC about it. I am in shock.

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silversword

Sorry Believer, I can't find what the fuss is about? Perhaps you can post the link?

All I could find is:

Hob:
goblin: (folklore) a small grotesque supernatural creature that makes trouble for human beings

elf: (folklore) fairies that are somewhat mischievous

a hard steel edge tool used to cut gears

a shelf beside an open fire where something can be kept warm

Knocker:

a person or thing that knocks; specif., a small metal ring, hammer, etc. attached by a hinge to a door, for use in knocking for admittance

Slang a breast: usually used in pl.: a somewhat vulgar term

Or,
From the late 1800s to the Great Depression, tramps and hobos would build campfires to stay warm and cook meals. They would stir the fire up for the warmth. Thus, a "hobknocker" came to mean a hobo or tramp or one who roamed around, assuming little responsibility and just getting by.

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stephanie_in_ga

I searched ask.com and found nothing. So I googled and found no definition. So I googled "hob knocker on icarly" and found some discussion. Found and watched the icarly clip. It's confusing at worst, nothing explicit in the actually clip. From the context, for the most part, I conclude it's along the lines of "jerk" or maybe "poser" (pretending to be someone/thing you're not). Something you call someone who annoys you. The confusing part is that Carly whispers the meaning to David, and Sam says it's illegal. Not really sure how to take that. So I ended up following a link to David Archuletta's fan site (b/c that is who said it on icarly, said that he was called hob knocker). Somewhere in all my link following, the most common thing I found was that hob knocker is a person who is cool in a geeky kind of way.

To me, the pronunciation on the icarly clip (which is repeated a few times in a british accent by some impersonation of a celebrity I don't know... not hip enough) is CLEARLY hob knocker (with a K), and sounds like nothing else to me. Spoken by David A or the british accent, it sounds the same to me.

I did end up searching on Urban Dictionary and (b/c believer said it sounds like something else, I made some guesses) search for a different spelling/pronunciation... I had to go that far to get something inappropriate. To me, just from the clip's context, I would not assume they meant something explicit.

So, from what I found, my conclusion is the intent was a vague word without real meaning, but meant to be humorous and probably made by some script writer who had no idea that it was close to something inappropriate. Honestly, people have used the inappropriate spelling to mean hanging out with famous people, so I don't know how it became something entirely different for some ... fringe group.

Unfortunately, it could now cause a lot of "oooo-ing" and inuendo. If my kid asked me what it meant, I'd tell them them "cool in a geeky kind of way" (cuz, honestly, that does describe David Archulet, sorry). If they said someone else told them it was a bad thing, I'd say someone else is twisting it and ignore them. Just to be safe, though, don't repeat it since it is causing contraversy.

I did ask my 12 y/o if he's heard of this icarly/hob knocker thing... and he said no, not a word. Maybe something will come out tomorrow at school.

Meanwhile, I will still watch icarly, I think Sam is hilarious! Wouldn't be as funny if she were my kid, but she's a hoot! I am slow to jump to conclusions, and would like to hear a response from Nickolodeon.

FYI, I ended up watching the actual clip on youtube, if you're curious.

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believer

Ladies.....does the clip not have the character asking what the word means and then have another character whisper in her ear, with her gasping and saying something like....."That is gross!" and then another one says...."And I think it's illegal.".....The phrase is "hob knobber" and with the definition that the urban dictionary gives I do not feel in any way the I am jumping to conclusions. It is in black and white. It is defined very explicitly. I did not tell my SD10 what it said, of course. I told her not to repeat the word and not to discuss it at school with her friends. She and her girlfriend had already been on the phone, before she came to me, asking each other what it meant. I asked my DS16 if he knew what it meant and he had not heard of it. The fact remains that the show has introduced the phrase into the vocabulary of young children which I feel is inappropriate. My DH agrees. A matter of individual opinion.

I also was watching the Miley Cyrus show with SD10 one day. Miley's character used the phrase..."Talk to the booty cuz the hand is off duty." ....I feel that is inappropriate and cocky. Again, just MHO. Just because it is a popular tv show geared towards children does not mean that everything in the show is something that I wish my kids to adopt as their attitude. If my kids would tell me to talk to their butt I would be ticked off. If someone else doesn't mind that is their choice but I have issues with a lot of what the kids watch.

Again, I don't feel that I have jumped to the wrong conclusion. If my SD10 used the definition of the word that was given in the urban dictionary I would have assumed that she had been exposed to pornography.

It caused my SD10 to ask me what it meant....I looked it up and found a vulgar definition for it. Sounds plan ans simple to me.

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silversword

Believer, I was having the hardest time with this. I grew up with "hobnobber"... we'd say, ohhh, she's out hob-nobbing... I could not figure out what you meant. I looked it up in the Urban Dictionary:

From the Urban Dictionary: hobnobber: People who are frickin' awesome but most of the time, nerdy.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hobnobber

From an actual dictionary:
(1595-1605) From Old English habban and nabban which means "have or have not."

1. An informal chat. The three friends had a hobnob outside the bar.

2. To associate in a friendly manner with. Generally has a connotation of associating with people of a higher class or status.The ambitious young student hobnobbed with the faculty at the prestigious college he hoped to attend.

3. To drink together.His favorite spot in the club was the bar, where he could hobnob with the big-wigs.

Related terms: hobnobber

After going through all of that, I typed in Hob Knobber. And I finally found exactly what you were referring to on Urban Dictionary. Yes, it is inappropriate for a childrens show. But, out of sixty "votes" on that site 42 people gave it "thumbs down" which indicates to me it is not a popular "alternative" definition.

I did not see the link, so I don't know the context in which it was said. But, from what you say, the "ewww... gross and isn't that illegal..." It sounds like they have some explaining to do re: just what they mean. I would tell your dd what the true definition of the word is and ask her what she and her friends take it to mean.

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pseudo_mom

I wish they would give miley a SM :)

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silversword

Pseudo, what's a SM?

Believer "I also was watching the Miley Cyrus show with SD10 one day. Miley's character used the phrase..."Talk to the booty cuz the hand is off duty." ....I feel that is inappropriate and cocky. Again, just MHO. Just because it is a popular tv show geared towards children does not mean that everything in the show is something that I wish my kids to adopt as their attitude. If my kids would tell me to talk to their butt I would be ticked off. If someone else doesn't mind that is their choice but I have issues with a lot of what the kids watch..

I agree with you there. My dd age six was talking about "hannah bontana (sic)" when she came home from school one day. I finally watched the show with my dh the other day... man that show is idiotic. I would never let my dd watch it- not for another 4-6 years anyway. Very shallow, inappropriate behavior. I can't believe kids in her 1st grade class watch it regularly.

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stephanie_in_ga

I watched the clib, "hob knobber" is NOT the procunciation I hear. It sounds clearly like "hob knocker" to me, both from an American accent and from the British accented character. I tried to listen hard for variation, but it just keeps sounding like knocker to me.

Either way, I am still not offended b/c I am still giving them the benefit of the doubt that any explicit connotation was unintentional. I agree it was a strange script, but I just don't think the show would have intentionally gone that far over the line. Though they probably should be more careful about ambiguous words in their scripts. Better safe than sorry. I could comfortably tell my children that hob knocker is a cool but geeky person, and a hob knobber is someone who tries to hang with celebrities. That is how I've heard "hob knobbing" used all my life. Hob knocker defined as a cool but geeky person came up often enough on my searches to assume that is a common enough trendy new phrase. If my kids had any interest in the situation and asked questions (I asked, they had no idea what I was talking about) I would just use it as an example of words meaning different things to different people, and that miscommunications happes, so both be careful what you say, and don't hold someone else's slip up against them.

Admittedly, I am generally liberal in my opinions and it takes a lot to offend me. But I really do try to do my own checking, take in all the info that I can, and make my own conclusions. My opinion on the matter is not my opinion of YOU, let me be clear. You have every right to draw your own conclusions. This is my opinion of the situation, nothing personal just because it isn't the same as yours.

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believer

I am suspicious by nature. Admittedly so. Not liberal in many cases, at least from my opinion but could be by others I suppose.....I am curious as to what responses I get, if any, from the show itself. I would think that I would not be the only one that came to that conclusion but we will see if I hear anything. Perhaps I should have stated the original post as a question instead of statement of fact. Life as I see it is usually black and white......A trait of mine....sigh.

I appreciate the responses. Thank you.

I probably allow my kids to be exposed to things that other people would not and so goes parenting....:0 )

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stephanie_in_ga

And I see mostly shades of gray. ;o)

But here's to respectful discussion! Cheers!

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sweeby

Glad you posted this Believer -- Because I was 100% ready when my son asked my what a Hob Knocker was!

I was able to tell him that it was someone who was sorta cool in a geeky way, but that it was a term he shouldn't use because lots of people thought it meant something bad. He said he thought it was illegal, and I was able to laugh and say that's why he shouldn't use those words -- because some people think the word is that bad.

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stephanie_in_ga

LOL! Sweeby, that's great! THAT is what the forums are for!

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believer

Sweeby,

Glad my hot tempered personality could be of some use! LOL

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sweeby

Nice to be ahead of the game for a change! ;-)

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pjb999

I have a hot flash for you all, (just kidding) - language amongst peers is how children work out who they are, what group dynamics are etc - they develop their own slang and delight in silly words, and eventually, learn or 'discover' some rude ones. From what I read about the offending phrase it's kind of a nonsense one that was more about people imagining what it was....whatever.

Kids will learn swear words. Many will swear. It has not been proven to cause cancer, delinquency, global warming or whatever....

My kids never had an issue with swearing nor did they swear excessively (or really at all, til they were adults) yet both developed excellent language skills and an ability to converse well and develop the tools they need to be successful adults. I credit stimulating discussion, encouraging the love of language and avoiding 'dumbing things down' - which included swear words, what they were, and other things a broadminded pursuit of literature brought.

I had been known to accidentally swear when the kids were older. I took them aside and told them I was not going to be a hypocrite and explained what swear words were (as the context came up, they learned most of them at school anyway) and that what was important in life, was to learn when such words were appropriate or inappropriate, and how they must never use them in places where it was inappropriate, or in front of people who would be offended by it. In other words, I/we taught them manners. Swearing was not an issue for them after that, and once it was all out in the open there was no 'forbidden/titillation' factor.

Just out of curiousity, what is the attitude to violence on tv? I am much more concerned about the depiction of violence than swearing, or even sexuality. It is a twisted world when violence is deemed more acceptable.

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silversword

I'm not sure how the word was intended. I didn't see the clip. But the comment about it being "illegal" and "gross" tells me that it's not an innocent word. And the definition of the word is truly not something I want my pre-teen (usually the age of nick at night viewers) to be learning about.

I have used bad language around my six year old. I have said sh*t, etc. And then I apologize and we've talked about bad language before as well. That doesn't mean I want her to know what tea-ba**ing is, regardless of how "innocent" it may sound or that it may sound like nonsense.

I don't see this as a swear word/not swear word issue. I see this as exposing our children to an aspect of sexuality that is inappropriate for their age. It brings up a myriad of questions. 1. is it ok to have sex with two people at once? 2. is anal sex right for me? 3. is this popular, (since nick at night is a leader in what's cool) ie: are other kids doing this? 4. is this something I should try?

Fine. When a child gets to be an adult, they will learn that people do many many things in the bedroom. Some of them they will want to try. Some they won't. We all need to talk to our children about sex, about only doing things that are comfortable for them and explain the risks involved. But to potentially introduce these types of subjects in a childrens television show is inappropriate.

IMO, this has NOTHING to do with swearing.

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spewey

Disgusting? Only to people who have their minds in the gutter.

I've heard the term in polite society since the 1950s, and it always meant "to associate with" or to "to socialize with," as in "Lucy and I were hobnobbing over some coffee after church." The term "hob" is a British term for the burner on a stove; there's nothing sexual to it. In fact, there is an old Victorian inn on Martha's Vineyard called the "Hob-Knob" Inn, and it's quite upscale.

Some people will take offense at anything, and in their filthy minds come up with all sorts of connotations.

I have never heard the term "hob-knocker."

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pjb999

Spewey, I'm with you. It's more in the mind of the beholder. Kids are innocent, it's mostly adults and adult behaviour that make them not innocent.

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believer

Spewey

My mind was not in the gutter thank you very much. I looked up the word because I didn't know what it meant. The definition was sexual. I do not take offense at everything. I do think that parents should know what their kids are watching and putting trust in a "kids" program isn't as safe as one might think.

pjb

If I was able to come to the definition of the word that was sexual then so could any kid that looked it up. I think you are way off base to blame adults for all of the crab that kids are up to these days. They are quit capable of getting into trouble themselves.

I did not tell my SD10 what I found. If she hears the sexual definition of the term it won't be from me.

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silversword

Believer,
What made you type in hob knobber rather than hob nobber? Just questioning, because that's the big difference here-spelling...

Spewey,
did you see the clip or hear about it? re: the context in which it was said?

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believer

Silver

Are you asking about when I looked it up?

I looked up the icarly episode first and it was spelled with a "k" in reference there. That is where I got the whole thing to begin with. I was referred to the urban dictionary from there. I didn't bother to look it up in any other dictionary. I still believe the show meant it as I stated in the beginning. Why else would they have added the other remarks or have mentioned the urban dictionary on the info about the show and how the word had been mispronounced? They said that because of the guy's accent it sounded like he said "hob knocker" but it was "hob knobber".

I'm not a purv people. Geez.......My daughter asked me what hop knocker meant, I checked it out, that is what I found. I didn't want to find what I did but that is what I found. I did not go looking for a sexual definition. I would rather have not read what I did but in the end ( no pun intended ) it has helped to open up our eyes a bit more.....which is a good thing. SD10 is NOT watching TV tonight..... :o/

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lindac

You can find a "disgusting" connotation to many many words in the English language. If you are looking for disgusting stuff....by gorsh you will find it!! How about queer, or gay or suck or dual, hot just to name a few of the milder ones.
The fact that the term was used to describe David Archuletta should be your first clue that you are looking under rocks trying to find innuendos for innocent kid talk!
I went to about.com to see what you found and had to scroll way down to Urban dictionary to find anything offensive.....and if you bother to read....just about everything listed in the urban dictionary is offensive.
Let it go....you are making a big deal out of nothing.
Linda c

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believer

Gee Linda.....looking under rocks? You assume you know me...you don't. I'm not hanging onto it...just addressing it since it was brought up again. Don't insult me...by the way. You don't know enough about me to have such an opinion. Don't flatter yourself that you have the ins and outs of the "innocent" kid talk. I don't need your advice. Thank you very much.

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pjb999

In the end, though, it's really a storm in a teacup, and it's entirely possible you misconstrued it.

I finally went to urbandictionary, and there is no way that was the intended definition. Unfortunately in this day and age people's language skills are deteriorating and that includes script writers - it probably never occurred to them it meant anything like that although it's a funny-sounding word that SOUNDS rude- I seriously doubt they would have intentionally used it.

I've worked with people at Nickelodeon affiliates and their work conduct is pretty wholesome. Something like that would get you fired.

In the end, it's a word. Raising it with the FCC is all well and good but sometimes it leads to political correctness gone mad. I would be far more concerned about violence on tv, kids getting into drugs/gangs/macrame than a word.

As Linda pointed out, many of these words have two meanings. Be resourceful and give them the g-rated definition.

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silversword

Believer "Silver, Are you asking about when I looked it up?"

Yes, that's what I was asking :). I was just wondering what made you spell it that way, because it's the spelling Knobber that changes it from "hanging around" (not gross or illegal) to "hanging" around (which probably is illegal in a few states still and is gross in my opinion). Interestingly enough "Hob-Knobbing" is defined as Messing around, hanging out; especially with snobbish people by the Urban Dictionary. I too read the links of Icarley stating that it was spelled with a "k" and sounded like Knocker but was really Knobber.

Also, for those who say Urban dictionary must have just put the nasty definition up, it's been up since 2003, longer actually than the definition for Hob Knobbing as hanging out.

Linda, Believer looked it up because she was asked what it meant. She typed it in, found the spelling, googled that and, I think, was a little shocked. As I would have been. What separates this word is that they called it gross and illegal. None of the other definitions could have meant this.

Using double entendres is as old as the hills. Shakespeare uses it frequently, as does James Bond (Dr. Polly Goodhead or Honey Rider anyone?) Is it appropriate to use them in childrens television shows in your opinion? Should we as adults just look the other way?

Yes, words can have double meanings. And if a childrens television show used the word "suck" as a double entendre it would be just as inappropriate.

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Ideefixe

Perhaps you should just muffle your children in a closet, away from all harmful influences.

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carla35

The word to me always just meant a weird guy.. nothing more. Considerng the fact when I tried to look it up, I came up with many different things... including stuff related to Hobits, a chair, and something to do with a foreignor... I don't think anyone knows what it means for sure.

And, I'm not really sure that Urban Dictionary should be the place to go for the definition of words... Otherwise, I'm not sure you could say the word "carpet" or "meat" on tv. Seriously, type in any word you know and see what you get. It will shock you. Hopefully no ones asks if anyone wants a "soda" on icarly. Because Urban dictionary's first definition for that is "Injectable cocaine often used in Hispanic communities..."

Come on, if you have to look it up, and no body can even agree on what the word was or what it means, I don't think it's a problem...

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believer

This is the last time that I'm going to comment on the issue. I had let it go and hadn't thought about it again until Silver brought it to the attention of the Hot Topics forum. It lived for a couple of posts here and died. Fine by me. I admitted to having a hot temper about it and then let it go.

For everyone's info.....I had never even heard of the "urban" dictionary before this. I think people that don't pay attention to what their kids are watching should do so. Every household has a different set of standards.

Some of you seem to get great pleasure in being mean and attacking people. As if from one thread you could have any idea what type of mother or person I am.

This is so pointless to argue about. I suggest that you read the first few posts, right after the thread was started and then get over it. Bye.

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ajjohnson398_yahoo_com

. Well, I'm a teenager, and actually ALL of you are wrong. The meaning of Hobknocker is slapping someone in the face with their pen*s...
Most parents would be concerned.

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dreamgarden

Believer is right. Hobknocker is derogatory. All I had to do was google
"Hob Knocker" and the first result was this:

Urban Dictionary: hob-knocker
On ICarly and Friends the runner up to David Archuleta calls everyone Hob- knockers, hob-knocked is to get hit hard in the testicles ergo a hob-knocker. ...

Why was this so difficult for other posters to do?

Thanks to Believer for bringing it to our attention. Sorry they had to be driven away with mean comments....

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