Primer over oil base paint - still need to sand/prepare surface?

kimcoco

13 years ago

Asking the professionals --

I'm repainting oil based painted trim in my bath with latex.

I am priming the oil base paint with latex primer, and then applying latex paint.

Do I still need to sand/prep the surface before I apply latex primer?

I've already tested with denatured alcohol to determine that it's oil based paint.

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Comments (5)

4boys2
13 years ago
I'm not a pro so I'll tune in later .......

I thought you had to use an oil based primer over oil based paint.
I've been looking at the new Smart Prime by Zinzer that's water based but acts like an oil based.That probably doesn't count.
jessicaml
13 years ago
Ditto on the oil based primer over oil based paint. And yes, you'll still need to sand before priming, especially on oil base, until the surface is evenly dull.
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I'm glad to know you guys don't like deglossers over sanding. I'm a professional decorative painter and always choose hand sanding on furniture pieces but have been tempted a few times to try a deglosser. I also agree that sanding and thoroughly cleaning trim in preparation is not a fun job, lol. A few years back I had a client who had a paint crew come on and put latex over oil painted trim...absolute disaster....ended in a lawsuit. I have pretty good luck with sanding and a bonding primer like 123 or C2... But a recently repainted a cabinet that had been done in oil and I did have some adhesion issues....I remember wishing I had just repainted the darn thing in oil. I believe one of the companies makes a non smelly oil based primer now, but I tried one and didn't care for the way it laid out...brush strokes. 123 levels out nicely, which is why I use that a lot. I would think using an oil based primer would be another way to eliminate sanding, though. Many of the oil primers say they can be topcoated with latex. Which always seems odd to me too! Maybe because they dry to a flatter sheen, gives the latex something to grip. I agree that the easiest thing is to thoroughly clean and repaint with oil like Ben Moore satin impervo, but aside for the yellowing factor, the op was considering a zero voc paint so oil is not gonna give you that....and the whole hassle of cleanup, of course. Oh, and when you see a primer that says it requires no sanding- ignore that. If you want to ENSURE latex sticks over oil, sand, and clean well. I was lazy painting over my own oil trim with 123 primer, and where I sanded it stuck well, and where I omitted the sanding, it didn't.
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Not sure what you are asking and or what is going on ,but , kilz 2 is NOT the proper primer for going over oil based paint. You need a bonding primer( Zinsser's 123) for that.
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I agree with paintguy. Acrylics increase their adhesion with time. What scraps off after 2 hours may well be adhered after 2 days. As to Behr paints, I have personally made test samples of Behr Ultra, Marquee and WB Alkyd over sections of hard, slick, high gloss oil paint. I hand these to customers and defy them to scratch it off with their fingernails. They are wearing thin with literally hundreds of tries, but they are still intact! Wanting to see the worst case scenario, I did not sand or de-gloss the oil paint. I am an old school painter, raised on oil pains and somewhat of a doubting Thomas. I have become a believer. If someone's paint is "balling up", I would wonder what is on that surface? Was it cleaned of oils from hands or other pollutants?
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When they say don't "cheap out" LISTEN!! Take my advice, I learned the hard way. You can a) paint one coat of cheap-y paint, and then re-paint it year after year, and re-scrape, and get a sunburn and waste weeks on end, or.... b) pay the money up front, and do it right. Expensive lesson, especially when you are painting a huge garage. DON'T use those vinyl spackling buckets that cost 2.79. Get good exterior caulking, whichever one costs the MOST is probably the best one. Be patient, just let it dry all the way. Scrape off EVERY peel, no matter how long it takes. If it's REAL bad? Get the spray on stuff, and get every last bit off. That's what I wish I'd done. And I did scrape to bare wood, but used crummy spackle and crummy paint, and one coat. Saving $50 on paint and materials is now probably going to cost me 16 hours time, and over $150 to fix. If I could afford it, I would spend $2500 to side the thing and never do this again. Spend the money up front, take your time. A GOOD paint job will last 10-20 years. Mine lasted 16 months, and looks worse than when I started. And I had professional help. Who told me to buy the good stuff, and I ignored him, thinking how smart I was. And don't try to paint outside when it's 80 degrees. ACHHHHHGGG!
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kimcoco
Original Author
13 years ago
I have to disagree about the primer. I go to a reputable paint store (not a box store) and also know a pro painter - I've been told that you can prime over oil based paint with a latex primer.

Whether I have to sand before priming with the latex primer is the real question.
Faron79
13 years ago
Hey KimC!

Yes...IDEALLY...do a thorough scuff-sand with 100-grit paper!
It's the BEST way-period.

Also YES...Latex primers are perfect over Oil paints (AFTER SANDING!). It's done all the time. You CAN use an Oil primer as well...AFTER SANDING!
>>> Obviously, Latex topcoats are ideal over either type of primer.

Sanding, in a sense, creates the "broom finish" that you need on sidewalks, so they're not slippery. Why don't you slip on broom-finish sidewalks??
Obviously it's because of the "surface-profile" that's created.

SAME IDEA for scuff-sanding a smooth finish Oil (or ANY glossy) paint. You create a profiled surface that your new Latex primer can grip VERY well. In turn, your paint topcoats bond very well to the new primer.

>>> Result??
* A paint/primer film that's bonded well, BOTH physically (from sanding), AND chemically (the paint-to-primer bond).
* Thus, you have a paintjob that'll stand up to the hard-knocks of real life!
* Make sure you're using at least a Satin-sheen paint!

Faron
jessicaml
13 years ago
As usual, Faron to the rescue.

And from dannylipford.com:

"While it used to be necessary to apply oil-based primers over oil-based paint and latex primers over latex paints, many primers today allow you to switch between them as long as you PREPARE THE SURFACE PROPERLY. When painting over interior oil-based woodwork with latex, be sure to sand or degloss the surface first, then paint with a BONDING PRIMER before topcoating with latex. Painting over multiple layers of oil-based paint on the outside of older homes with latex paint can cause adhesion problems, so in that situation, you're better to continue using oil-based house paint."

We used to tell people you couldn't paint plastic, either...technology changes.

Here is a link that might be useful: Homeownerâs Guide to Paint Primer by Jerri Farris

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Primer over oil base paint - still need to sand/prepare surface?

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4boys2

jessicaml

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Primer over oil base paint - still need to sand/prepare surface?

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4boys2

jessicaml

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kimcocoOriginal Author

Faron79

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kimcoco
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