From what I've read and been told, it was a way of life. While the deer may not have been their only source of meat at that particular time, there were surely times when it could have been. Aside from being another mouth to feed, animals that were not useful were not tolerated. (I was told that once a dog kills game it never stops & goes on to kill small/newborn livestock...ever hear of a chicken killing dog- once they have a taste of it, they don't stop, some will kill the whole flock.)

In those days, life was harder than people in today's world could ever imagine...a time when near starvation was a reality.
Suzi

Life was hard. I remember WW2 and its impact on farm folks. I did not live in Appalachia, but my parents were only one generation away from the 'frontier' and it was rough. One of my grandfathers was born in Missouri in the middle of the Civil War. We had very little money in our pockets. My father was an excellent marksman but did very little hunting. I guess it reminded him too much about WW1 in which he served. When WW2 broke out, he began having nightmares filled with warped battlefield scenes.

At the beginning of WW2, many farm folks had not shaken off the proverty of the Great Depression. Some reverted to methods and ways of their ancestors who had settled the country.

It was common for the man (and dometimes the woman)to hunt to put extra meat on the table. In our community, we did not trophy hunt, but shot only animals that were destined for the table. We deemed this necessary and looked down on trophy hunting. To us, hunting was not a sport - It was a necessary part of food gathering, a chore if you will. We took no pleasure in killing. The goal of our hunters was to make a clean kill and reduce animal suffering to as little as possible. Women were more likely to fish and gather mushrooms for dinner. What did we hunt? Squirrels, rabbits, oppossum, raccoon, quail, ducks, and geese. Deer would have been on the menu but there were none in the area in the 1940s. Today, deer are common where I grew up as a boy. The most common gun was a 0.22 rifle. (It was cheap to shoot and lethal.) Those who had a little more money had shotguns and deer rifles as well.

In regard to the grandpaw who shot the boys' dog, this was too harsh in my opinion. First off, it wasn't his dog therefore he had no right, and he had no regard about destroying the boys pet and companion. He had no thought about the impact on the boys, and what he was teaching to them. This man can not be trusted with a gun in my opinion. He should have never allowed an untrained dog to accompany him on his hunt. He must have been fully aware of what an exuberant dog would do once a deer had been flushed.

We had a dog that had to be put down. This was the dog that helped raise me. He was my constant companion and guard when I was a 2yr old in a clothes basket in the yard while mom did the weekly wash. He watched over me like I was his pup. Whenever I left the house and yard, this dog automatically tagged along delighting in sniffing his way all over the landscape.

Then he developed a bad habit when he got old (13 years). Mother noticed that when we left the house to attend Sunday School, she would be missing eggs from the hen house. She began to suspect a neighbor whom she did not fully trust. She was almost to the point of confronting him when she caught our dog in the act. Our dog was taking eggs from the hen house when we were away. Sometimes this happens when a dog becomes too old and too feeble to hunt on his own and his teeth may have been failing. But once it began, it would continue. This could not be tolerated. These eggs were a major source of mother's meager income. The old dog was put down and respectfully buried. However, this situation was much different to that of a mean old man firing at his grandsons' dog. We held a family conference to decide who would do the deed and the method. We also explored alternatives. This was survival.

Yes this type of behavior was common. I remember dogs being but down if they ate chickens, eggs etc. Also they never went to a vet if sick just put down. My grandfather would destroy all the female pups in a litter as soon as they were born. It is very upsetting to me as a child.

Same for me, altho' I didn't grow up in Appalachia I was a country kid and sometimes it was pretty lean on the farm. My Mom churned butter and sold eggs for a meager bit of money and anything that jeopardized the well being of the cows or chickens was "dealt with" be it wild animals like a raccoon or mink or a domesticate like someones stray dog. If they were a threat to the animals Dad would take whatever measures were necessary. We had a situation similar to Jems....but ours was an old stray hound that came around (they always seemed to) and for a while he was welcome but he soon developed a taste for eggs and he was put down. It was not something my Dad relished doing, but in those times it was a necessity....times were very hard. Rosemary and Jems stories are a bit different from mine, it actually involved a pet. Jems family handled the situation humanely. Was Rosemarys DH's Grandpa wrong? Yep, in my opinion he was totally off base in many ways... to do it in front of the children was horrible....sad, sad story.

~Kathy~

We used to have a vacation home on the Cheat River in West Virginia and later we had one in Deep Creek, Maryland which is just across the state line. There are some really, really poor communities there and many families live well below the poverty line. We would drive through the countryside and stop at farm stands and visit little backwoods towns.

I can't tell you how many times we would remark that it seemed like a scene from "Deliverance" - remember the dueling banjos segment? We were friendly with the realtor who told us that it wasn't unusual for cousins to marry each other. It was certainly a way of life that was quite different from what we lived. And this was in 1960's.

It is true that you don't want a deer to run hard when you shoot it - it will have a more gamey tast. It has something to do with the release of lactic acid in the muscles. It was a harsh thing to do but it doesn't surprise me. I cannot imagine how hard life was for these people.

Shooting the dog right in front of the boys does seem harsh.
That being said, I agree with the above posters hunting to eat was common. My parents grew up in the Depression. When my Dad was a teenager he'd go out after school with his 22. If he could kill something to eat (rabbitt, squirrel, raccoon) they'd have meat that evening. If not, they'd go without.
Mom raised chickens on the farm when I was little. When it was time to butcher them she would have me stand and hold 2 or 3 in each hand while she'd take them from me one at a time and chop their heads off with an axe. I hated that job, but, it had to be done. And, I've done it myself when we butcher, but I still don't like it.

Ron

I agree it seems harsh...but I would probably shoot my own dog if he chased deer.

It was a hard lesson to learn. But, I bet they didn't take another dog hunting.

I know in Florida you can use dogs to hunt deer...or at least they used to do that. However, I have been told by someone who has a husband that hunts a lot, that if you see a dog chasing deer, you have a right to shoot the dog.

Think of it this way...they needed the deer for food. The dog was running it away. I sincerely doubt they could have called the dog back...once it got caught up in the excitement.

As teens they should have been aware of keeping the dogs under control. Yes it is hard to see a pet killed in front of you, but the grandfather did what he thought best. Should he have done it? Only he could answer it.
I know years ago my grandpa made his dog either stay in the pick up or stay home. Would he have killed his dog? I suspect he would at least fire over it's head. Life in different parts of the country is what makes this country a great place to live.

Survival Brings out a different side of a person doesn't it?

I hope I never have to face the hardships my Ancestors had to face.

If my Dad's Father saw how I treat my dogs he would be horrified to know they even sleep with me. Dogs were only good for watch dogs and herding. Cat's were kept in the barn.

Gayle

My parents lived in very rural Massachusetts from the 1940's to 1961, and I grew up there from 1951 on. We lived on a 40 acre farm. We sold eggs and chickens and every Sunday we would butcher one. I remember holding it down on the chopping block when my dad chopped its head off. I was less than 5 years old. You learned about the reality of life and death early. No sugar coating.

It was a totally different life there than anywhere else I have lived. Very much like all the stories here. We got our first dog from a farmer who was going to shoot her because she killed chickens. My dad took her home and when she killed a chicken he beat her with it. Harsh yes, but she never killed another chicken ever again. And turned out to be one of the best dogs we ever had.

Animals were animals, not pets. They slept outside even in freezing weather, usually in the barn. They never went to the vet. If they were sick they were put down. All our cats except one house cat, to kill mice, were feral barn cats. A dog was a guard dog to alert you when strangers came around and to keep animals away from the chickens. They had jobs to do and bad behavior would not be tolerated.

I know people in that area who wouldn't have hesitated to shoot their dog or even a neighbors dog if they thought it was doing wrong. There was some really bad blood between neighbors because of that.

It wasn't a joke that you didn't cross certain neighbor's property. They would take a shot at you, even if you were a kid. It happened to me and my siblings. And what did our parents say, "Don't go on his property again." And we were punished, got a real hard spanking. He wasn't reported and no one would have even tried to talk to him.
Clare

Dogs didn't have the same place in life back them that they do now. Now they are our furbabies. Part of our family and cherished friend. Back then they were just sort of there. Take 'em or leave 'em.

Linda (who was born in WV and has seen lots of thing you wouldn't believe when I was a small child.)

For the OP: Appalachia, an area surrounding the Appalachian Mountains from New York to Mississippi, encompasses all of West Virginia and portions of 12 other states.

I grew up in Western New York. We used to visit my uncle's farm. They had a well with a pump outside for water and an honest-to-goodness Outhouse, complete with a moon cutout on the door. My Grandmother kenew how to clean and cook fish, squirrel, pheasant, rabbit,deer, just about anything my Dad would hunt and bring back to her.

Duluth, thanks for the clarification. My knowledge of Appalachia is sorely lacking, which also explains this whole post. I'm relieved to hear these stories and feel better knowing that my DH wasn't raised in some dog-hating, animal-abusing culture.

Mcmann, he's from an area in the WV mountains that's not too far from the Cheat River and his grandparents were still using an outhouse in the 1960s. He also told me about eating "ramps" and how bad they smelled. It was a radically different lifestyle from anything I'd ever heard about.

I usually love listening to his amazing stories about life on the mountain but this thing with the dog really, really upset me.

Thanks for the posts and the information. I am greatly comforted to know this was not uncommon in the very rural areas of this country.

Rose

Please don't misunderstand - the farm people valued their animals and cared for them well. On the other hand - the cattle provided milk and meat, and local dogs that got together and travelled in packs, chasing cattle, would be dealt with severely (read, "shot").

They tried to train the dogs to herd cattle - some would go to the pasture at milking time and bring the cows to the barn for milking.

It could well have been that the Grandfather felt a deep sense of love for the young lads.

I thought that the Grandfather's act was a bit severe - but he had a reason that was logical to him, and his reply to the boys likely would have been, "Get over it!".

As several have said, life was hard for such people and there was little margin for soft-heartedness. Would you be willing to have soft-heartedness and hunger co-exist?

Quite likely the Grandfather was marksman enough that he could have shot the dirt beside the dog to have been thrown up and both stung and frightened the dog, but he took more direct action, as many did. Life didn't have the nuances for them that it does for many of us.

The idea of someone shooting over the heads of kids invading their land was quite foreign to me.

I have four barn cats, one of which loves to be scratched and petted - but if I pick her up, she jumps down. Another cat lets me pet him, and enjoys it some, but is a bit reluctant. Drat him, he's a bit of a scairdey cat, but when I pour feed into each of three or four dishes in turn ... he has to be there to eat immediately from all four dishes in turn! A half-grown kitten that I didn't see until it could run pretty well has got to where it'll let me pet it when it's looking for feed, but not at other times. Its mother will follow me around, even quite closely ... but if my hand gets a bit too close ... she draws blood.

It is nigh impossible for modern, city-raised people to understand what life was like for such impoverished people who, as several have said, hunted for meat in the woods and fields.

I'm glad that you felt comfortable enough with this place to have come to share your question.

By extension ... many people who live in other parts of the world look at life very differently than we, and I think that at times it would be well if we were to sit down with them to learn of their ways - and to share our viewpoints.

It seems to me quite likely that we would find that we had more in common than appeared at first, as I think we came to realize regarding this situation.

When I was a kid, some folks in town had a metal-lined wooden box that looked something like modern fridges and men drove horse-drawn boxy wagons with tons of ice in them down the street, carrying a block into many houses to put into the top compartment. We on the farm pumped cold water by hand from the well in the yard to put into a pan in the basement, where we stored butter, meat and other perishables in bowls floating in the water, changing it as it warmed.

Within a few years, they built refrigerators. Within a few years after that, they were building them to last for 40 years ... now they build them to last for 10 years.

I've heard that for the world's people to live in the fashion to which we've become accustomed (in about 3 generations) ... we'd need the resources of four planets similar to that on which we live.

We are hugely wasteful. We have a lot to learn from those people who lived more simply. And as more jobs are shifting overseas, our descendants are going to be learning them.

Several areas of the seas that used to teem with fish are now almost barren - we didn't practise conservation. Our kids and grandkids will suffer the consequences. We still have about the cheapest food in the world ... but one doubts whether that will last much longer.

Currently, many thousands of U.S. and Canadian families are about half a dozen paycheques from being on the street ... but we've forgotten how to forage for food, as our forebears did, out of necessity.

We are much more brittle, less resourceful and adaptable.

Good wishes for a really fine week ahead.

ole joyful

"I guess West Virginia isn't considered Appalachian..."

Yes, West Virginia is heartland Appalachia.

As defined in 1960, the Appalachia region included 219 counties in 13 states.

"Heartland" Appalachia, what people think about when they think of mining, grinding poverty, and economic repression, is generally parts of Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginina.

In Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty, launched in 1964, led to the Appalachian Regional Commission. Its charter includes services to Appalachian regions from Mississippi to New York.

In the 1970s I grew up & went to school across the river from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. My school district received Federal aid based on the county's status as part of the Appalachian poverty zone.

Just an update on all this: I talked with a relative who was also raised in this part of WV and he gently explained to me that, yes, life was different "on the mountain" and any animal - even a dog - that interfered with hunting would be put down in a hurry. His comment is also supported by the many thoughtful comments above (in these posts).

It's quite an eye-opener to think that we're not that far removed from our ancestor's rudimentary beginnings.

Rose

Even today we will not let Harry out during deer season. There are warped people that will shoot any dog they think is chasing a deer. He stays in the house, or in the fenced yard during deer season.

Still, I can't imagine any man being cruel enough to not only shoot his grandchildren's pet, but to also shoot it in front of them. Those poor children; I can only imagine the pain they must still feel.

We've been warned about a plot of land in the next county. Any dogs allowed to run there will be shot at by the owners. We don't go near there.

Harry is a hunting dog...birds and small game. We never take him on posted or private property, and 99% of his "hunting" is done without guns. Except for fall bird season, his "hunts" are nothing more than wild runs on the prairie.

I can't imagine anyone hurting a dog in any way, but I know it happens. I guard his life like it was mine.

In the late 70s we had a neighbor who owned cattle. Our dog at the time had a habit of "rounding up" the beef cattle and bringing them to his barn. The neighbor was not amused, but he did come and talk to us. He said if it happened again he'd shoot the dog. We were lucky; he warned us. Many people would not do that.

We had to keep him fenced or tied after that.

Caroline,

I'm rather inclined to the view that you were indeed fortunate that your neighbour warned you, though I realize also that many neighbours in a similar situation would have done so.

Rules governing modern living, especially relative to built-up areas, usually are that a dog must be on a leash when off of its owner's property.

If your dog goes to your neighbour's, pisses on that neighbour's flowers and kills some of them, your neighbour will get upset.

I fail to understand any reason that that rule doesn't seem to apply to cats!

But that problem that your neighbour suffered was simply esthetic, relating to his/her loss of the potential enjoyment of viewing their flowers for a time.

If your dog got rambunctious one morning and growled at that neighbour as s/he was going to their car to go to work, resulting in the neighbour returning to the safety of his/her house, also resulting in his/her losing half a day's pay, can you imagine that your neighbour would view that with a shrug of the shoulders and a smile?

When dogs chase cattle, the production of milk goes down, or the speed at which additional pounds of flesh are developed goes down, so there is loss to the farmer's production, even if there is no injury to the animal (apart from stress).

The parallel does break down somewhat here, for if your neighbour who'd been growled at were to have a more venturesome spouse grab the dog and choke it to death (it being illegal to discharge a firearm in the city) ...

... you'd have taken the position that the neighbour had no right to be so harsh as to kill your dog, despite its transgression: that the punishment was too harsh, relative to the crime.

Even in the situation of the person being "threatened" ... not just (living) possessions being threatened.

That said ... I reiterate that you were fortunate that your neighbour warned you - though many rural neighbours, valuing their relationship with their neighbours, and looking upon neighbours as people rather than mere ciphers, as is sometimes the situation in the city, would have done so.

But if your dog is messing with a neighbour's cattle, on their property ... don't be surprised if the dog gets a bullet ... right then, right there.

ole joyful