You aren't going to get multiple layout bids from multiple KDs. That's a red flag there of someone who isn't really serious is is just going to be a waste of time. No wonder they all want deposits before dealing with you. I would.

If you want a quick way to compare pricing between individual cabinet lines easier without committing to much time or a fee, then pick out 5-6 cabinets that are the same across the line, such as an 18" 3 drawer stack with no finished sided, a 30" regular cabinet base with both sided finished in plain veneer, an 18" single door upper (whatever height you will be using) with unfinished sides and a 30" upper with finished sides and interior and plain glass. Add in a 3" base filler and an 8' stick of tall crown molding and an 8' stick of wood (not vinyl) toekick. Now pick a cabinet line and doorstyle in a medium priced range. Don't know what a medium priced cabinet is in the line? Ask the KD. (Usually a not too fussy raised panel full overlay maple in a standard stain will be a middle of the road in price.) Now you can get a quick quote from a bunch of cabinet makers and compare prices of their lines without wasting their time having them go through 4 designs of which you're unsure of.

To move forward with your project, you need to come up with a single layout rather than being all over the map with that. You can post your layout here to get feedback, but you should also work with a KD once you narrow things down in order to fully utilize the capabilities of your chosen cabinet line.

Most KDs will offer a free rough estimate without a deposit. That's how it works for me. I offer a free 1 hour consultation in which we brainstorm together about your kitchen and go over any layout ideas that you may have had. I can compare very roughly the costs in different cabinet lines if you need to see if one direction would be less expensive.

After that one hour free, if you want to engage my design services and proceed to a hard estimate, you need to pay a $500 deposit. That ensures your commitment to the project. The $500 will cover the roughly 5 hours minimum that it takes to get to a final design. Sometimes it takes a lot more time. It takes two hours to set up the design in my software and figure out what goes where and plug it in. It still will not be a final design because it needs your input on what's been done so far before it's finalized. That's another hour meeting and another 2 hours of design work before a final design. And that's a minimal level. Most people want to make changes and that adds even more time spent before a final design is reached. But at least if someone wants to make changes, they are engaged in the process, not removed from it and just shopping.

You are trying to get to stage E and haven't been through ABC stages yet. You have to pick a design and a KD first if you want to get really close hard numbers. All anyone will do for you at the shopping stage is give you an estimate.

When you choose the cabinet line you want to use, be sure that you look beyond price. Construction is important, but so are install fees. The most important thing is a KD who will bring some creativity to the job and whom you can trust.

live wire oak

Thank you for your advice. I think you have a point. I am not 100% set on my design. I have posted my layout on the forum, http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0200015011733.html where I describe few alternatives that I am considering. But I am not 100% sure on any of them.

This weekend I will open up the ceiling to determine the joist run to ensure that proper venting can be done for the range.

I also have a chase in the way that impedes in the efforts to create a sitting area for 4/5 on my island.

Maybe I need to get an interior designer that will provide some thoughts and ideas on the layout and then I can go shopping on the cabinets and installation (which I may have to do depending on the budget).

Sorry, that link did not come well. Here is the link to my layout discussion

Your question is a good one. I might have had the same question had I not spent hours and hours (maybe over 500) trying out different options for my kitchen and bathrooms.

I had no idea how much time this can take if you really want it done right. I can see how designers wouldn't be quick to agree to submit a design (as representative of their own skill) because having not lived in the space as you have, it will take a lot of their time to become familiar and REALLY do it right.

I am not a designer but after my experience, I have a lot more respect for their job.

But I also think that after you have done your homework, finding a good designer is not easy. Not necessarily a cheap designer but one who isn't going to give me something that takes the least amount of their time using cookie-cutter type solutions after I have signed a contract.

I hope to use this forum shortly as others have. I am amazed at the willingness of strangers to take time and give feedback. Take advantage of that but don't be surprised at the amount of work you will need to contribute to that process as well. Good luck.

You might try Lowe's or Home Depot. Variable quality, but you will walk away with what can work with different cabinet lines, from "custom" to "stock."

Even a box store isn't going to do 5 designs times 4 different cabinet lines, and all for free. That's a completely unrealistic expectation for anyone to have who is still in the preliminary exploration stage. You haven't even really moved into the design phase yet, because you don't know what type of structural limitations you're dealing with. You are at least several months away from even beginning to start the pricing phase. Narrow down your plans and expectations first, and then professionals will be willing to give you the time of day.

I found it very difficult to price cabinetry. If I had to do it again, I would use design software to work up layout drafts myself, get feedback on GW as to which works best, then shop my best design to different cabinet makers / shops. This way, they all price up the same layout. Once you have an idea of pricing, you can get fine tune the design with whomever you decide to go with.

I would recommend that you decide upfront the features you want in cabinetry such as drawers vs. regular base cabinets, roll outs, window valances, tall cabinets for pantry, fridge, etc. because these are the things that really hike up the cost. Also, finalize you appliance decisions so that the design considers correct spacing for your appliances. For example, a wall oven cabinet is very pricey, so if you go with a range instead, you save $ on cabinets.

I found that all the cabinet makers and kitchen shops want to design it themselves and price it based on a specific door style, color, finishes, etc. as well as their unique design. Then you end up with varying designs and there is no way to compare pricing because each design incorporates different features.

Or you could work with a private Kitchen designer (who does not sell cabinets) , get the design and shop it around. Each place will want to change it, but insist they price what you've provided first and after you have that price you can talk improvements.

Good luck. In my area, this was a very difficult process. No one would give me a breakout of costs which made it very hard to prioritize and make cost effective decisions.

dilly

thank you for your thoughts. I have done mostly what you are suggesting. I have been learning a design software so that I can make design changes on the fly.

I agree that pricing cabinets is difficult, but I am not worried about that at the moment. As you said, the main issue is getting a final layout. And to get ideas on layout with somebody who does kitchens is where the problem lies. People would like to receive $150 to $350 to come to your house measure things and get ideas.

I think the best would be for me to print out few layouts, and invite a interior designer. Have her first discuss thoughts on the layout and then show her what we have. Hopefully they will match. DW has a friend that does this work so I might just do that.

If you want to get professional help designing your kitchen, I don't think it's going to happen for free.

We paid $1500 to work with a kitchen designer to come up with a design for our kitchen, as well as an additional $750 to work with another designer on the structural aspects and drawing up plans to submit to the city. You probably want a specialized kitchen designer rather than a generic interior designer.

With all of the talk of moving load bearing walls, the FIRST place you should get information is your local codes office. They will tell you what kind of paperwork and permits you will need to deal with and if they prefer to deal with your contractor or you for the details. The second person you should consult is a structural engineer. He will tell you if what you want is possible, and if possible, how to go about it without the house falling down. Then you need to talk to some contractors. This is BIG job that you are talking about, and will need quite a bit of labor. Get an idea of those costs before proceeding to the accessories like cabinets and counters. The BONES are where the majority of your money will be spent.

I will tell you that based on national average figures, you're up in at least the 100's for all of the work you are proposing, if not more. You're remaking around a third of your house here. You might step back and perform a cost/benefit analysis when compared with taking that 100K together with the price of your house and buying something that already has a more open floor plan with a larger kitchen.