I think it'll be fine. I have 33" between the end of a peninsula and the counter I use as a bake center. It spans 29" so it's more and a pinch point. I can stand there all day and people can still get by me. I like the symmetrical look better.

I can't speak to the space, but I can tell you my 1st thought on the original layout was, "that's silly". I just couldn't figure it out. Such a huge hood over a counter? Then I noticed the attempt at symmetry.

I think you nailed on on your new layout. I am anal about symmetry, so take that into consideration.

Boy, though. It looks like you're going to have an amazing kitchen!

You could still center the range but place the base cabinet cut-back closer to it to maintain the larger opening.

However, the 33" spot in the kitchen is going to be analogous to walking through a doorway within the kitchen plan, kind of like if the ovens were in a separate pantry area. Not a big deal, especially since the space is a dead end and not in a traffic pattern.

I think either plan will work. The symmetrical plan at least gives you full depth set-down on each side of the range rather than having that reduced-depth off to it's right, which could be a little odd in use.

I think the large hood could provide a certain function in addition to giving the wall symmetry, so I like that solution--it also looks a bit more European or commercial-kitchen to me--which would have been fine, since you were going with a very substantial looking hood. (This coming from someone whose last three kitchen designs had completely invisible ventilation over the range.)

Don't know if this is dredging up old dogs but do you need a prep sink? Your main one would be right behind you at the range and that prep sink is so inconveniently placed right at a turn in the counter. Sinks and water will always get used but I can't help but think that if you're talking about preserving counterspace, that that second sink is a huge compromise.

I really like your "symmetrical" plan but personally would nix the prep sink. (Or else put a smaller fellow in at the 90deg stretch.

I personally much prefer the asymmetrical layout with its welcoming broad counterspace and the fact that YOU the cook will be centered in the room.

The 'symmetrical' plan still looks asymmetrical because the windows are not centered in the room to begin with; to me it looks like symmetry that's horned in on the left of the run for the sake of design not function. Counter space is crucial, do you really want to give that up to look like every other standard kitchen?

Have you considered turning the washer and dryer so that they are against the outside wall and putting in a pocket door between the desk area and the laundry area so that it is not such a claustrophobic area? I know that you have had a hard time dealing with the trickiness of working around the chimney and I know that you have had experience with remodeling space, I admire your last kitchen, but this layout seems like a huge compromise trying to fit in too much. The deadend would be very hard to work with especially if you have children and trying to fit in a peninsula that seats four plus sink and dishwasher overwhelms the space. Just my opinion, it is just so much money to end up with a space that may not work well.

With either plan, what is the drop down clearances for the dishwasher and for the range oven? I'd feel better if they were staggered and granted, they might not be down at the same time frequently, much space is left if they are?

I don't care for the 44" aisle and less for the 40" & 33" though it depends on how many are using the kitchen.

It looks to be a beauty and some say they are fine with narrower aisles but there are only 2 of us but having a choke point with a fridge on a 48" aisle and knowing how often we must get out of each others way, I would not ever do that again and wave anyone else off it as well.

Having now seen your elevation drawings I much prefer the symmetrical plan. I think the spacings will be alright.

I too wonder about the need for the prep sink and the cleanup sink on the peninsula -- primarily because your dishwasher is there too. Your prep sink looks like it is now placed where you will have storage for dishes and it would be so nice to have the dishwasher and therefore the cleanup sink in that position. I load and unload dishes from the dishwasher daily and would not have to carry them one inch further than necessary to get them into the cupboard. Somehow this is major for me and dwarfs some of the other concerns.

Do you really need a prep sink plus a cleanup sink? Did you feel the need for that in your prior kitchen? I thought a long time about the prep sink when we did the kitchen (along with a pot filler) and concluded I really did not need either. And have not regretted that decision.

But symmetry -- I think you would regret giving up on that.

I definitely prefer the symmetrical layout. I too think the prep sink could be smaller if you did not want to eliminate it and maybe moved to fridge wall. I think it is nice to have a sink in the same run as your prep area rather than dripping things across the aisle to the island. However, you could go from fridge to island and prep there and then pan to range also and have only the one sink. I also like the symmetrical because it gives you more counter space on the right side of the range May I ask what design program you use? It gives nice renditions.

I like the symmetrical look, but if you're going to move the clean up sink to the island...what if you slid the prep sink over, by the double trash? You wouldn't be looking out the window, but you also wouldn't have your back to the peninsula...and you'd be closer to the fridge for grabbing fruits and veggies. It would also give you more prep space, between the cooktop and the prep sink.

As for the narrow area, I don't think it will be a problem. Who is going to go back to the ovens besides you? Maybe one of the kids, while you take a break and drink coffee at the peninsula? No problem, then :)

The more I look at this the more I think it is going to look asymmetrical from some aspect no matter what.

The right hand pair of windows is half behind the fireplace, so neither the windows nor the range will be symmetrical within the primary kitchen space no matter what.

The fourth window, the ovens and the desk are essentially in a different "room" and the symmetry of the back elevation becomes academic.

This reminds me of a house plan that I saw that had a round stairhall that was quite beatiful, actually, balanced by a round room in another part of the house. But it was a round dressing room/closet on the second floor that you would not even know was done this way to mirror the stairwell except on plan. You couldn't experience it that way in the house.

I would let function trump the "symmetry" on that elevation, since it really only exists on a flat drawing.

I haven't read the other comments so this may have been suggested - what about shifting the prep sink around the corner. Doing that will give you more prep space by the range and puts your prep sink right beside the trash. You would actually do your chopping etc facing the window.

I'm also wondering about moving the sink around the corner and then putting the double trash beside the range. You would then be in the middle of the two. I'm not sure if that would work or not. Food for thought anyway.

Or even put it IN the corner.

Poor mamadadapaige! Have you received enough conflicting opinions yet? I was one of the people who questioned the asymmetry and yes I prefer the new scheme.

Thoughts. I was most concerned about the range and the range hood being centered between the windows, the rest of the symmetry (the below counter cabinets and the sink) can be willy nilly as far as I'm concerned. I also wondered about the need for an additional prep sink.

That said, this is your kitchen and it should look and function the way YOU want it. Don't let us confuse you, sleep on it and good luck!!!!

I was going to suggest putting it in the corner (it's where mine is) but knew that would be frowned on. But yea, what about in the corner. (Unless bmore you were being facetious?) My prep sink is 16" square and in the corner and works well.

I love symmetry and balance. But I also love good function. As much as I really like great symmetry, every once in a while, I think a curveball of interest is better. Your asymmetrical plan provides both the curveball of interest and better function.

And I think your asymmetrical plan looks well-balanced, so I think you are good to go!

Which do YOU like better?

I've been out all day, just coming back into the loop and so thankful for all your thoughtful responses.

I hear a resounding call for moving the prep sink around the corner (or eliminating it all together - this is what DH wants to do so I mustn't let him read this thread! ;-)

I am going to play with this - I think it is a good idea in that I would probably be spending more time chopping and dicing, etc. than rinsing and thus would have my view out to the yard while working... It really was a major goal of mine to have a decent expanse of prep space.

Related to eliminating the sink or flip flopping the prep back to the peninsula - worth thinking about. I know I don't really NEED it - it is for sure a luxury. It isn't such a big space to justify three sinks - main, prep, butler's pantry (butler's pantry might bite the dust as it is currently illegally vented -- we will be doing a little bit of exploratory surgery next week to figure out a plan for this - if one exists... Thank goodness for the very intelligent plumber favored by my contractors!)

One issue that was really bothering me in the original plan is the issue Palimpsest mentioned - the angled back cabinet to the right of the rangetop. Moving the sink around the corner would remedy this.

I plan to read your responses in more detail after I get the kids to bed but just wanted to thank you for your input -- best to disect this six ways to Sunday now while it is just on paper rather than (hopefully) two weeks from now when the cabinets are ordered.

Mamapaige- I say go for the three sinks! You'll need them and why not put them in, now?

One other question...if you move the cooktop, would it make sense to switch the sink and dishwasher, on the peninsula? I just wondered if it would be easier to use the dishwasher, if it was not exactly lined up with the cooktop.

I think this is going to be a beautiful kitchen and all your planning is going to be well worth it! :)

blfenton,

My thinking is that corners are kinda useless for prepping - that makes them a good candidate for holding a prep sink. It gives back a usable size counter between the sink and the range and gets rid of the one real criticism I'd have of the symmetry plan - many small fragments of counter. I did that to myself in the previous remodel - partly because I didn't understand what it would be like to live without enough counter.

In this particular layout, moving the sink around the corner ruins any landing space for the ref and also might kill the space for the trash cans as it looks like a full size stages sink.

I do understand that with the upper arch, a corner sink could look really crappy. The other layout possibility is a smaller sink (say 15-18" square) right beside the range. Prep occurs between sink and ref.

If this was the only sink, and multiple people lived there, it doesn't work out so great(been there, done that too in the past).

I try to mark wise-cracks with a smiley face.

LL- Oh do I want the three sinks! Currently our sink is perpendicular to the DW. The only space I have for prepping is right in front of DW. I often have 6 yo DS working with me - he stands on a bench -- I clean as I go since I have limited space for dirty pans/cutting boards, etc. - This means moving little DS off his bench to open the DW then reinstalling him! not great. It was all of this wrangling that got me thinking of the prep sink being a nice addition. I realize the new space solves many of these issues (particularly locating the DW in the peninsula even though this means (as Sayde pointed out) more walking to unload), but even so I do think it would be nice.

Bmore and blfenton - I downsized the sink significantly from the Stages. It is a Ticor sink - the bowl is about 18" across (highlighted below on the plan) and the rest of it is a 3" deep drainboard that will still allow the Magic Corner II in the dead corner to be fully functional.

I REALLY like this new idea of the prep sink around the corner... I resisted this - many had pointed this out to me long ago but opening up the counterspace is a BIG win.

The more symmetrical plan to me has a HUGE advantage of getting the hood away from the pinch point. I had been thinking that it is one thing to have a base cabinet to avoid, but having the hood out of there will go a long way to easing my worry of feeling penned in.

This new plan allowed me to bring everything down closer to the fridge wall and thus will allow more light from the windows on the right and allow them to play a bigger role in the symmetry equation.

As to which I like better - I would say this new plan with the prep sink around the corner for functional reasons it gets me the MAGIC corner 2 which will store all my small appliances and then some. It also gets me two good sized banks of drawers - keeps the double trash - gets the hood away from the pinch point, increases pinch point to 37" from 33", allows room for an upper next to the wall ovens (i was thinking the little drawer could hold my pot holders and toothpicks)...

rococo - before going too much further I plan to mock up the clearances with tape on the floor. I, like you, don't enjoy a crowded feeling. We had originally planned for a drop in cooktop for this reason, but DH REALLY wants a griddle since he used it often in the old house and he wasn't sure he would like the removable ones as well. Because of how much I am trying to fit into this, there willing obviously be some compromises but this is where some people can live with some of those and others can't - gets to the individual. For me, the one thing I won't give up on is seating for four.

Still thinking through issue of flipping DW and main sink. I think the DW is already so far away from the uppers... this is an issue. Maybe one of those things we'll have to accept. Silverware will be easy to unload, as well as tupperware and pots and pans. but glasses and dishes are a bit far for comfort.

mama, can you steal some inches by scooching the seating area back away from the range? Looks like there are a few inches on that wall -- that might help with the clearances issue.

Apart from that I go by Roc's rule that symmetrical is always best (with due respect to those with other opinions).

If what they're saying is to move the prep sink into the Magic Corner 2 space, that would be smart. Looks like you have 24" then between the sink and range. Or downsize the sink slightly to make it fit. Otherwise you're jammed up against that corner -- not enough body clearance to work comfortably there.

I was also going to say push the seating back a couple of inches. Changing the doorswing to the basement would help with this.

Pal, that basement door is just the worst - the headspace for the basement stairwell that we are working around in the butler's pantry is also terrible!. If we can reverse the swing, we will - depends on what happens with the wall it is perpendicular to (by the laundry) - the carpenters are coming back on wednesday to figure out load bearing issues as well as sink/laundry venting issues.

I am open to scootching!! just want to be sure you don't have the laundry area in your peripheral view while sitting.

rococo - i can get the sink pushed over toward the left by about 3". I drew the fridge elevation quickly and didn't make the trash cabinet 21" wide (it is more like 24" in the drawing). I guess every little bit will help.

This isn't in regard to your questions about symmetry but it looks like you only have 30" allocated for the width of your refrigerator. Is this what you intended? Considering it's typical to have 36"+ area for a refrigerator, that's really decreasing your options for a replacement in the future.

I like the last layout shown, but think the prep sink could go a little smaller than is shown. I'd rather it be more petite to blend in better than to look like a second cleanup sink. I'd make it more front to back and get a wall mount faucet for it.
I'd also go less wide for your cleanup sink because you need a little space on the left side of it as well. I would hate to have a sink with only 1 side for putting things down.

I might even consider putting the dw next to the fridge and have the cleanup sink next to that. Then, the dirty dishes would not be near someone who is dining and you could prep on the peninsula if you want, with or without a small prep sink. The double trash could be below the peninsula instead and near where you want to throw out trimmings and packaging.

Unless you need to lock the basement door, perhaps it could be replaced with paired doors.

I did a project with a basement door that swung into the room and had no wall to "rest" flat against when open. There was not enough head room to swing a single door in.

By converting it to paired doors we were able to swing them in and there was enough clearance to do so.

You could also do a bifold door that was only attached at the hinge side and not on a track that opened out and folded.

Is it possible to do tall 15-18" single trash, sink cab, corner cabinet? If you need a second receptacle - maybe the slanty cabinet? Or can one half of the farm sink cabinet be a pull out?

Mamapaige- I see what you mean, about unloading the dishes. One other possibility...if you need to make the fridge space a little bigger...could you have one trash there and maybe one on the left side of the peninsula sink? That would be great for clean up, with trash and dishwasher close to the main sink. And, the trash would be close to the cooktop, too :)

Thank you all for these suggestions! I do think the peninsula needs work for optimization. right now the interior width of the bowl is 30". I can probably get away with less but i am sort of commmitted to Ticor only for budgetary reasons - I definitely go for the very square streamlined look and their prices for this are amazing ... My last sink was only 21" wide and I would never do that again (live and learn).

pal, THANK YOU for the suggestion of door options for the basement. this is a great idea. were these made custom? is their a resource you could recommend to look into this?

mama, my trash pullout is 19-1/2" (custom) with front and back compartments. You might be able to downsize. Tis a game of inches for sure.

No, they were not made custom. The contractor got a bifold door that fit the opening and took it apart and hinged it like conventional doors.

I replaced my pantry door with double doors. They were not custom made or made from bifolds; my contractor ordered them through his building supply company. Building code may prohibit double doors at the top of stairs.