I think that whetever he says, something IS going on. Awfully defensive, isn't he? Trust in a marriage means trusting your partner to know all the truth about you, not expecting your partner to blindly accept any suspicious behaviour on your part.

None of that is even close to normal. Decide what you would do if you found out he was cheating. Be honest with yourself. Would you stay or go?

It probably won't get you anywhere but more frustrated... but have you thought of calling his mother? I'd ask her what she thinks is going on and quite honestly I tell her to bud out of your marriage and not allow him to forward his stuff there...

It's not in your head...something is going on and I'd be prepared. It sounds like not only is he having an affair but he may be planning on leaving you. Make sure he doesn't have access to drain both accounts. Put one account in your name, if he wants separate accounts. Don't mention the PI again, because it will give him heads up.. but I'd get one. Another thing to consider... Maybe it's not another woman.. could he have a gambling (or even drug) problem?

He's definitely laid some plans to leave, & to take assets with him.

& he's recruited his mother to help him.

One thing that comes to mind is to get a post office box & fill in a change of address form for the "household", changing it from his mother's house.

He'll find out pretty quickly, but all you need is for a bank statement or so to come in.

I'd get an attorney pronto & start salvaging all the assets I could find.

Forget about taking "half" the money in the joint account.
Take it all, to offset the assets he's hidden that you'll never recover.

I wish you the best.

Sorry to disagree with sylvia.. but "household" change or not, what she'd be doing with the mail may still be considered mail tampering and that's a federal offense! I would think he does legally have a right to his personal mail, and to have it sent wherever he chooses. At least run that mail idea by a lawyer first. No need to get yourself in big trouble... I doubt he'd be nice about it.

Sounds so identical to my XH's actions!

Shortly before leaving me my XH started to get some of his mail at his parents house, had some other stuff separated, did some financial tossing around, got a second job late at night, bunch of stuff...

What your H does is most likely he is planning on leaving some way or the other or is having some kind of other serious issues that need to be addressed

He did the same things planning to leave his second wife. And a month ago he did leave her too so someting fishy is going on.

If the way you describe his responses is accurate, he is being WAY out of line...and I'm not even talking about his actions. It's his WORDS...telling you "eat" your accusations and name-calling. That's out of line in any situation, for any reason. As for his actions, you need more information, I think - so it's not yet time for accusations. But you do deserve an explanation - delivered in a kind and compassionate way. Trust goes both ways.

I think she can change the "household" mailing address, but you're right, she might do well do ask the attorney, or maybe the post office.

Please listen to the wise posters here, a lot of whom have been through something like this:

You need to act now to protect yourself.

Wait for "proof", & you'll find yourself high & dry, no money in the bank, no way to find assets, house in foreclosure.

This behavior is whacked. Looks to me like he's getting ready to bail. Strongly advise getting your own affairs in order. Something's going to happen.

If you can't get to the bottom of this, I would advise considering leaving on your own rather than living with this weirdness.

Thank you! He is telling me I am crazy and that I don't need to see any of his stuff because he doesn't want me to call clients, etc. I told him that if he doesn't have anything to hide it should not be a problem. So, I told him this morning that I am getting a lawyer. We have a 4 year old son and he tells me he wants to work out everything on our own. I have stayed home with my son since birth, working occasionally because we had our son in daycare and he stopped paying for his part of daycare and it was so much for me to handle on my own that I just took my son out and said I will just home. He wants me to leave my son with his 81 year old mother while we work and I say NO!
He does not want a lawyer involved at all, but I say I need to protect my rights. The major thing is with my house. THe downpayment was given to me as a gift from a relative and it is only in my name as sole and seperate property. This was the agreement between everyone. Now he says that he will take half of my house in a threat to not get the courts involved. I told him that since I have stayed home with our son that I deserve to have some type of support from him to offset what he pays for bills. He says NO he will never pay me a penny. THrough this journey, I am learning that he has no respect for me, doesn't trust me either and does not care for my well being and is only looking out for himself.
So, he is moving out today and I am going to take off with the kids while he goes. Any more advice?

get a lawyer quickly and take care of your finances and make sure you are pushing for alimony, not only child support.

We were right, he was onto something fishy.

I am sorry, you must be very upset, but you are better off without him. Just make sure you get all the money and property you deserve.

My SO's wife moved out while he was not home and she did the same thing as your DH for 3 months before moving (he had no clue)like withdrew large amounts of money and also hid her income from him, it turned out she was making way more than she told him. She also took all the furniture with her and left the hosue empty.

When your DH is moving out you better stay home and watch what he takes, he might take everything because supposedly he was the one who worked and earned wages. Ask somebody to babysit the kids and be home to watch. Good luck. let us know how it goes

"When your DH is moving out you better stay home and watch what he takes, he might take everything because supposedly he was the one who worked and earned wages. Ask somebody to babysit the kids and be home to watch."

Ditto!!!

Yikes... I would prefer NOT to be there when he is moving out... or maybe you can ask to have a policeman present... otherwise I highly recommend you have 911 on speed dial and stay out of his way. Arguing over what he can or can't take could be a nightmare and probably isn't worth it!

Your possessions will be worked out with the courts. Don't worry about what he says you will get or not; you're still entitled to your half. Although, the house may be community property now (doesn't matter if you paid downpayment - not sure???). Don't let him convince you that you would get as much because you didn't work outside the home; he's full of it. And, if he does take your stuff... you should be able to get more of something else (more interest in the cars, house, or 401K account, etc). Take some pictures of your stuff and document the items in your house just in case he would take the stuff. Obviously, keep the pictures and list elsewhere.

If he gets physical, file a restraining order right away. That should keep him out of the house.

Generally, if you are a stay at home mother... you should get primary custody or at least split custody and maybe/probably the house if you can make the payments and there's enough money elsewhere for him to take his share. Of course there are exceptions, but generally, everything will be split. Talk to a lawyer ASAP. I think it will settle your nerves; you're not going to be left high and dry unless he has gambling problem and he's eaten up all the savings and raked up tons of bills. You may be able to get copies of credit reports to confirm or deny that; Ask your lawyer about that too. Good luck.

The below link is for California so it may differ for you, but will give you some ideas... check out #9 on community property.

Here is a link that might be useful: Divorce and Custody

My one line above should read...

Don't let him convince you that you WON'T get as much because you didn't work outside the home; he's full of it.

Sorry.

don't know how it is in your state, but in Texas, if the house is your separate property, that's that.

period.

I had a client whose husband raised cain about the house, which she had actually bought a couple of years before the marriage.

threatened to take it away or make her sell, etc, refused to sign the decree unless she paid him a huge sum of money to "allow" her to sell it.

The judge had to rule so that the title wouldn't be clouded by husband's refusal to sign;

the husband was trying to pressure her on other things & used the house as a tool.

Just so you know you're not the first to be lied to & threatened & manipulated, & you don't have to feel like you must defend yourself against whatever he throws out:

This guy also stood up in court one day & shouted, "That's not my son!" & the judge, without batting an eye, ordered DNA testing.

The judge has likely heard it all before.

I wish you the very best.

"The judge has likely heard it all before."

Except among the very wealthy with the highest-paid attorneys this is pretty much universally true. Divorce is quite common. Surely there will be ample precedent in your jurisdiction for whatever your issues may be. An experienced attorney will know this and will advise you of what you may expect.

I suspect your issue won't be as much with the fairness of your courts as it may be with your husband's strange behavior. Contentious litigants invariably result in proceedings that are far more lengthy and expensive than they deserve to be. If you have an adversary that enjoys the fight, your attorneys are going to make a lot of money -- all of which will come from the pot you and husband will be dividing. Sadly, another universal truth.

so very true! if the other half wants to fight over a fork and a spoon, then attorneys will get their pockets full while you will lose your money.

my bf's exW took everything out of the house (without his knowledge) when he was on a business trip: furniture, dishes, utensils, pictures, paintings, books, electronics, movie collection, even Christmas decorations, she only left some bedroom stuff and couple of things in a living room. she also took numerous things that belong to her daughters like their books, pictures etc(that she still refuses to give back to them) lol

he is a push over when it comes to material stuff, he is too emabrassed to fight over mundane things, she knew it, that's why she took it. he did not ask for any of that in court. our state is no fault divorce, so bringing her numerous affairs was uselss too, plus he was too emabrassed to talk about it to attorney. she got a half of everything else, but the fact that she literally emptied the house stayed out of the picture. he did not get anything for that.

my point is do not be a push over and do not let him take yours or your mutual stuff. and if he does, then fight for it.

"...do not be a push over and do not let him take yours or your mutual stuff. and if he does, then fight for it."

OK....just don't spend big time/money "fighting" for small things. If you want to fight for principals and not being a pushover -- or anything else -- just be aware you'll be charged for every syllable.

I am a big pushover myself and always prefer being nice (it does not help me much in life ha) but it is easy to advice others that they should fight for their rights. :)

Hi Chastity -

I read your first post and then second post and am wondering what happened to propel the situation into DH walking out?

I can think of numerous reasons why a person might want to hide the mail from a spouse. If he is staying late at work then that may raise a suspicion that he is seeing someone.

You mention that his aged mother recently moved to where you live. Also, that is where the mail is being forwarded. Is this a coincidence or did DH ask her to move nearby?

The situation appears to be moving rather quickly in such a short span of time.

DH could have been planning this in advance. It shouldn't matter to you now what the reason is. He caught you off guard and has the advantage as he planned ahead.

Now, your primary goal should be to protect your interests. If you are confused, get unconfused real quick. Your future is depending on it.

It looks to me like he has done the work in his head already and you didn't know it. He made his decision before he told you his plan.

Beware, Chastity. Don't play into his hands.

Get a woman lawyer if you can.

Good Luck!

Get a lawyer. Depending on which state you live in could depend on if it matters or not that it is just your name on the house, you need to get whatever money you have in your account and get it switched to a different account. You know he has your current account, he could empty you out, you need to do this Fast! If you don't you could be left out in the cold with nothing.
You need to do everything in your power to protect yourself and the kids, him telling you not to get a lawyer is a joke, he is thinking he can manipulate it to his advantage, yes lawyers can be expensive, when my mother got her divorce every time her lawyer sent any papers to my dads lawyers she got charged, be smart about it, but it is so much easier than trying to deal with him on your own.

Don't leave the house while he is moving out, or you may well come home to an empty house. Then it will be a royal PITA getting anything back, as going by current behaviour he will hide it. Be there, and if not a policeman, have a couple of large male relatives/friends with you. Don't provoke any fights, but don't let him take your stuff either.
Sorry he's being such a rat.

Thanks for the advice. So update, this morning I told him that he needs to decide what he is going to do. I told him that now that he has refused to show me his account statements, cell phone records, after he said he would, that major red flags are going up everywhere. He said that he is not showing me anythng and that I need to trust him and i said no. So he said, "well then I am leaving, i cannot deal with you anymore and your crazy accusations, you need help". Well, I know that I don't need help from a professional, unless its a lawyer, i need help from him and for him to come clean with what's going on here.
When he got off of work, I had sent the kids to my mother's house and was prepared for him to leave, and yet again he stalls and says "what are we going to do about thie". I say, there is nothing to do unless you share your information". Again he started yelling at me and needless to say is still here sleeping in the other room.
Just so you all know, we have seperate bank accounts now. We have no joint accounts whatsoever.
I am going to contact a lawyer about my rights this week. I know that if he wasn't up to something he would not have a problem showing me his stuff.
His mother moved out here last year after her husband died and immediately he started using her as a tool for hiding everything. I mean, who has their mail and phone and bank account information etc go to their mother's house for no good reason? I went to the extent last week to print out my bank statement and cell phone records. He would not even look at it. Tells me that if I am going to deceive him, that's on me that he won't worry about it.
This is a really wacked situation. My biggest concern at this point is keeping my sanity and chin up for my kids and getting him out of here because I don't want to be with someone that I now realize has gone to great lengths to keep his affairs out of my reach and so, there must be some pretty hefty secrets that he is harboring and i am almost afraid to know what they are....almost.

Stop discussing anything with him! You are understandably running on emotion, but divorce is a BUSINESS DEAL. That's the way the courts look at it, and YOU NEED TO ALSO. Whatever he says or threatens or yells, do NOT take the bait. Just keep repeating "that will be worked out by the courts." or "I'm not ready to talk about it right now." Discussion will do you NO GOOD, and you will end up tipping your hand. Don't do it!

Regarding the house, state laws vary. The house may very well be half his, in fact it probably is. Yes, you provided the down payment, but he made all the mortgage payments, correct? That makes it a commingled asset, ie, half his. Even if he only made half of the payments, it's still half his. Even if you "agreed" that the house is yours, unless that is in writing, the agreement is worthless. Don't dwell on that - you can't change it.

In addition to talking to an attorney NOW, you should change all of your passwords to something very difficult - 12 characters, a combination of numbers, upper and lower case letters, and no words found in a dictionary - English or other. Then, unless it is yours alone and you can password protect it, stop using your home computer for anything having to do with the divorce. Go to a friend's or the library.

I disagree with the importance of getting a female attorney. There are good and bad attorneys of both sexes, and having a female doesn't give you an edge or better understanding. You might feel more comfortable with a female, which is great. Just be sure you choose an attorney that practices *Family Law.*

And forget about using infidelity as a tool in your divorce - if you live in a No Fault state, it has little or no bearing on the outcome of your settlement.

He's stalling.

He knows you're onto him, but he keeps staying in the house & saying "What're we going to do about this?" & "You need to trust me"...

There's always a reason someone stalls, & it's always to do you out of something more.

Get hold of that attorney first thing Monday morning.

Thank goodness you're onto him & you're not buying that "you need help" stuff.

Doesn't it seem like people always tell you you're nuts when you ask questions they don't want to answer???

Again, I'm in Texas, & I only know about Texas.

but here, separate property is separate property.

If the purchase funds were your separate property, & the mortage is in your name, it's your house.

Making payments doesn't entitle anyone to an interest in it.

The most a spouse can get is half the amount by which the indebtedness has been reduced during the marriage.

Even if your state says the house is community property, in today's market, you may not have net equity (what you can get for the house, less the loan & less selling costs) to split.

Also, if you are the custodial parent of children, the court isn't likely to make you sell the family home;
it's more likely to give you the house.

(& someone above gave good advice:
Stop talking to him:
You have nothing to gain, & you don't know what you might lose.)

The lawyer really will make you feel like you have more control over what is going on just by educating you a bit. And there is no commitment to have to do anything just by talking to a lawyer... you don't HAVE to file for divorce, or you may even decide to use arbitration or do something else. I think usually the first visit/consult with a divorce lawyer is free (athough still bring your money just in case). We can all guess and assume what your state laws are, etc... but your lawyer should really be able to tell you so you're not half guessing everything. You should feel so much better just knowing your options. Good luck. Let us know how things are going.

Listen to carla35. She knows stuff.

Talk with an attorney. Then you'll know stuff.

Learn where you stand and where your husband stands...in fact. No need to wonder about these important considerations when knowledge can be purchased quickly and cheaply.

Update: Phil moved out. He is staying with his mother (go figure). The day he moved out, he left me october's phone records. I looked them over and there doesn't seem to be anything suspicious except for about 20 calls a day to his mother. The banks statements, however, have failed to appear. He says that there is a fraud alert on his account and cannot get them right now, which I don't really believe.
I believe that he is a very sneaky person and that he is trying to sedate me with the phone bills while he waits for me to stop asking about other things. He is hoping I will forget because he is wanting to move back in, but I have said that we need some time apart at this point. I cannot trust him and I believe there is still more to be reveiled, he has just gotten really good at all of this manipulation stuff.
Anyhow, that's where I am at with all of this. Thanks for all of your input, I appreciate it.

After I read this thread and your posts, all kinds of red-alerts went up in my head. YOU need to stop asking him for anything -- records, receipts -- ANYTHING. Get a lawyer and get him/her to do it. Every time you ask him for anything, you are putting him one step ahead of you.

He hasn't had any problem keeping you in the dark about things he's going to do. Why are you relying on him to give you answers when he obviously does't want to feed you anything more than what he wants you to know????

Honey, I love my husband, but if he started acting like that even back at your first post, it woulda been lawyer-city for me. You have to GOT to stop playing the game he's led you into and get someone advocating for you -- a LAWYER! And don't tell him anything either! If he wants to know he can ask your lawyer.

There's something really odd going on. Could someone be staying at his mom's house with her/them? Is there an Ex wife or someone his mom likes that she would help cover for?

Don't get confused by the phone bill or other stuff he shows you. He could have been using prepaid phones and accounts you are not even aware of. How were you able to rule out all the clients he was afraid you would call from the phone list? Were these clients even on the phone list? Anyway, why is he calling his mother so much? That's insane just by itself. And, why is there a fraud alert on his account?

Please, just talk to a lawyer. Again, you don't have to do anything. But, the lawyer may really be able to help you and at least point you in the right direction. I'm sure they have all types of experience with this kind of stuff. And, like cindy mentioned quit asking him for stuff; he is only going to give you what he finds safe, may even be able to doctor stuff up. Plus, you are giving him the heads up so that he can hide stuff... by using other phones, new accounts, etc.

Personally, I would ACT like he won and even "act" a little sorry (don't let him move back yet or anything just tell him you need time to think), but I'd hire a PI and talk to a lawyer today (but don't tell him) and just go from there. He's probably not going to be truthful to you at this point anyway. If you find out your concerns are unwarranted, fine, but with the way he's acting, you really need to find out from someone other than him. Good luck. Keep us updated.

You'll catch more flies with honey. Act as if you're not suspicious, but say you feel distant and need him to prove he's IN the relationship if he wants back in the house - other than that, keep mum and call that lawyer. Don't let him get ahead of you -

Again, thank you for your advice. I have an appt. with a lawyer. I also wanted to say that since he moved out, he is still coming over right after work to hang out and leaves around 11pm. Then comes over first thing in the morning.
I actually feel anxiety when he is around and am anxious for him to leave. He wants to talk about our relationship and try and work things out he says. He tells me that I have driven him crazy with my suspicious mind and that I have to start trusting him. Again, I say bull crap! The stuff he has been doing is crazy and I know that there is something going on. I made the mistake of being trusting and talking to him so much about what I think and telling him about a PI and all that. I have been way to open and I should have just investigated without telling him anything.I agree amy fiddler, "you'll catch more flies with honey, if I'm not suspicious". At this point he is not going to be honest about anything.
The whole fraud alert thing was because someone broke into his truck and stole his checkbook a while back. He changed accounts though, so I believe that he is just making another excuse not to show me. Do you guys think I have the right to see his accounts and personal information or is it an invasion of privacy?

Married? No, it's not an invasion of privacy. Your accounts are his. His are yours. You both have the responsibilities that go with being labeled with fraud, the debt and the assets. That's marriage. Good luck getting to it though. Close any and all accounts with his name on it and put them in your name while you still can. He may beat you to the punch.

Good luck!

20 calls to mom probably means there is someone else with mom or someone else uses mom's phone number-a girlfriend for example.

"Do you guys think I have the right to see his accounts and personal information or is it an invasion of privacy?"

I would think you should, but you may not be able to get it. Do you have his passwords to call in for balances? Who knows for sure... Again, this is something you need to ask you lawyer about. They may even be able to tell you how to do it legally or how to file for a disclosure of all finances, etc. Ask about the legalities of getting a full credit report on him. You will probably need his SS# to get it though. You may not even know what accounts/banks, etc he uses without a full report.

Could he be pulling money from his accounts, etc. to help pay for/support his mother and is hiding it from you so that you don't get mad about it? I just don't see any rational behind what he is doing. Even if he were having an affair it just wouldn't be sane to change everything over like he did... It seems like he was was either planning on leaving you and changed his mind, or he wants to get caught doing whatever it is he is doing? Is there any chance he is hiding a gambling/medical/drug problem or that he has a relationship with a man? I know I'm coming our of right field here... but something's going on and it may very well be something you haven't considered.

One more thing, have you thought of going into counseling with him? I'd be curious as to what his response to counseling would be.

The whole fraud alert thing was because someone broke into his truck and stole his checkbook a while back

Yeah, right. Good lord, woman. What do you need? a brick in the head? He's just telling you crap at this point and making up stuff that my 4 yr old nephew would not believe.

Yanno what? When he comes over first thing in the morning, tell him you aren't prepared to see him right now and to leave -- AT THE DOOR WHEN HE ARRIVES. Then just close the door. What's the worst that could happen? he'll knock again. So what? Repeat the story and close the door again -- it'll be good for him to go away without some answers for a change.

You are being way to convenient for his needs. Is this all about HIS NEEDS right now? YOu have GOT to get a grip on what is good for your own well-being at this point.

If things work out in the long run? great. I hope they do. But he has to lose his "mommy addiction" first.

I've been following this for a while but haven't responded yet. My feedback really comes down to two core ideas:

- You don't have a husband -- you have a problem disguised as a husband. If you treat him like a husband, you make yourself vulnerable. If you regard him as a problem to be dealt with and protect yourself emotionally, you'll have a much better chance of solving your problem in much better stead.

- He's sneaking around on you. Maybe sexually. Maybe financially. Maybe some sort of sick psychological thing with his mother. My guess is all of the above.

He has shown you over and over that you can't trust him.
So don't!
Don't trust him with your concerns, your questions, your plans.
As others have already mentioned, stop tipping your hand.

In a marriage partnership, what is good for one spouse is usually good for the other, and what is good for the marriage is good for both spouses. A lovely sentiment to live by in a marriage --
But for whatever reason, you and he are no longer on the same side.
Remember that.
Sadly, you are now in a zero-sum game, where everything he 'wins' in now something you 'lose.'
You're not working together, so stop trying to and protect yourself.

Those with nothing to HIDE....HIDE NOTHING.

So what happened?