I thought someone on this forum said that American manufacturers design the friges to hold pizza boxes? I agree with Rayna--take a box with you and try. I'm sure the local pizzeria would be happy to give you a nice new clean one considering the amount of business you give them. Of course, they'd have to go in where the door bin isn't. That said, I've been measuring Sub Zeroes a lot. The shelves are 13-14" deep including the lip edge and the door bins are about 4-5" deep (I can't remember the exact measurement). And, of course, they are adjustable height and come off. Plus there has to be an air gap. So it might just fit. If you're interested in the fully integrated models with drawers it might fit better in one of the drawers. The Bosch/Thermador ones have 10" shelves but much deeper door compartments. I don't think they're deep enough however, though they just might be. I realize that the teach 'em to package the pizza answers are frustrating because that wasn't the question you were asking, but the fridge will still be around when the teenagers (hopefully) have gone to college and beyond, so I think we're trying to give you short term solutions so that you can concentrate on other features for long term. In that spirit, only wanting to be helpful, and having done my best to actually answer your question to the best of my recollection, there is a mid ground. On the assumption that the multiple pizzas have different toppings and need to be consolidated anyway, you could get a big food storage box and have the guys pick up the pizza, including the liner if there is one, and dump it in layers in the box. If they're not that picky about the storage to begin with, and that ravenous, I don't think they'll be bothered with a few toppings adhering to the bottoms of the pieces on top. This wouldn't be any harder than consolidating the left over pieces into one or two pizza boxes, and if the storage box lives in the fridge, and you and your DW don't mind standard teenage ideas of couth, it wouldn't even have to be washed every time. Or figure that you'll do other things for the planet and use disposable catering boxes.

Oh no, marcolo, what did I say?! Whatever, I'm sure it wasn't intended as a swipe and I do apologize, any and everyone!... the "group think" I was referring to was part of this sentence: "What I was referring to was the KD-group think that insisted I had to have a box around the fridge and I had to have a conference about it and insist and put my foot down and say no and then worry about it for months and months: 'what do I know that the KD doesn't know'? Did I make a mistake being so insistent....' That sort of misery. " I was referring to how unpleasant things felt for me regarding this stupid little potential wall next to the refrigerator. It was something I had to fight hard for, not having. My KD (no one on here) ... actually, I should say the person who sold me the cabinets as she had almost zero planning input - but she is a designer and I valued her design sense (in the absence of any formal training here). Anyway, this person told me, in a completely shocked voice "Oh there is no way I would ever build a kitchen without a box for the refrigerator. It just doesn't look good". I hadn't really even realized she'd included it in the plan; I hadn't in what I'd asked for. But this was during a meeting with her boss where we were trying to save some money (!) and it came to light that this massive hunk of wood was planned. Her point was also that it was required additionally for structural reasons. But her boss, a (former, I should think) carpenter, waived this away and said structurally it wasn't necessary as there were two walls. It was evidently a very expensive part of the bill as the piece of wood is large, requiring stitching together and much finishing. But that left me wondering what she knows that I don't know. Thus I came here with this question, wondering why I was so crass as to imagine such an installation different from the requirement of the "KD-group". Obviously, many many haven't boxed. Moreover many who do, do so wisely and serenely (as David and others point out). My swipe was at the way I was made to feel it was utterly unthinkable to do what I wanted to do, when in fact many have and do and there is good reason to; as it turned out my kitchen was just one such one. But I couldn't see that confronted with an angry person insisting I was doing the completely wrong thing way back when! This thread was really instructive for me first of all seeing so many boxed-in fridges that looked terrific, so many that not only looked terrific but necessary, and many more that really didn't need it; as well as articulating some of the reasons, in both directions, people have for going one way or another, reasons quite apart from design considerations. It's my impression that this is one decision that is squarely and flatly in the middle ground where reasonable minds can completely disagree, or also that reasonably different kitchens converge to the same solution and conversely, similar kitchens reasonably conclude with a different solution. The 'group think' I was objecting to was that evidently somewhere in KD-world is the rule that One Shalt Not Box. It flustered me! Apologies for: (1) the persnickety, overly-long explanation and (2) any residual unintentional insult I may have implied. Marcolo - thanks for noticing about the grain. That's something that was a new 'articulation' for me. That is, I've always loved the grain of wood I saw that some doors had more than others (I also love that clear open aspect that sometimes comes that it may have been Buehl? forget who - who pointed me to a great explanation of in another thread about how this arises when you sever certain plants cells at an angle). When we got a sample of the door my husband pointed out that it had a seam down the middle disrupting the wood grain. This was evidently required with "solid wood", a high-end upgrade. But this observation let to realizing that veneer might actually be preferable from some perspectives, like this one. He wanted an uninterrupted stretch of wood grain (I agreed) so these doors are all veneered. I really love it. And I would never have noticed or realized quite why some doors look better than others. If you want to see the wood grain and it's not too expensive (it was cheaper for us actually), I highly recommend this option. For some reason I haev associated 'veneer' with 'less-good', but I think I've been all wrong. It's quite a nifty technique. Silly prejudice again; not sure where it all comes from! Anna, you're cute. A bunch of people have asked about the Rainforest Green slab. I have noticed it's hard to get a good picture of the - I think it's sandstone and not marble? Not sure... whatever it is, it's shiny and moves and varies tremendously; hard conditions for a good picture. Oee of these years I'll get a good series of pictures. In the meantime if you're thinking of using it, you might want to know I think it can be difficult for the fabricator to work with. I think it's quite popular and therefore often thought not to be so difficult. But I think there's more to it. I'll gather my thoughts on it some more at another time. If someone's in a hurry, let me know. Thx!

So, in line with this thread, we had completely custom cabinets crafted as part of our kitchen remodel one year ago. We had a good many difficulties with our cabinet maker and believe that the painting was done hastily because he was late. We were told that painting was done 'in the booth'. He used a pre-catalyzed lacquer color matched to Benjamin Moore Atrium White (not BM paint,however), formulated to California requirements. Well, the doors (and cabinets) under/around our sink have been repainted twice and the doors are peeling and chipping yet again. Yes, water does drip down (we have a farmhouse sink and water drops down the front tend to be a pitfall), but we are very good about monitoring this and these doors DO need to be able to stand up to some moisture (they are flush inset doors). In any event, the paint cracks follow the joints of the doors and the peeling always starts at a seam or joint. The latest painter who's attempting to fix this says that the doors weren't primed properly in any of the previous paintings. This is not just ridiculous -- it's expensive to have these doors repainted 3 times a year. I know about the restrictions on formulations in CA. So, I'm wondering if there are cabinet companies elsewhere where we can send our doors and a paint swatch for repainting -- and appropriate baking to make the finish more water resistant. That won't help failures on the cabinets themselves, but the doors are by far the worst. Any ideas or recommendations out there?

I bake 2 loaves of sourdough a week for sandwiches and occasional treats (cinnamon rolls) or a different kinds of loaves during the week. I don't like it to be too complicated but want what I consider excellent results. Personally, what works for me is just preheating the oven (Wolf CSO) to whatever temp I need in convection steam mode. If loaves in a pan 335, ciabatta type 445, free form loaves generally 400-425. I don't use a stone. One of the reasons I prefer sourdough is the 'to die for' crust and I get it w/the straight up steam convection mode. There's always a great poof of steam when putting the bread in and taking it out but you don't notice the steam in the oven as you would if steaming veggies while cooking. As mentioned steam only exists at 210 degrees over that the waters there but not noticeable until it is 210 degrees. I'm not sure how often or exactly when the water is injected, I can hear the valve working but I'm pretty sure it's not constant. I will sometimes use a large gas oven as I can heat it to ~550 or a large electric convection if I need a larger oven. The results from the CSO are always more impressive, the oven 'spring' is more noticeable and the crust is crustier w/the steam. I'm sure adding water to either of the other 2 would work similarly but like I said I'm in the K.I.S.S. group and don't like overthinking things too much. A lot of people get caught up in thinking rather than doing, having a good understanding of what you're doing, the 'why and how', will eliminate a lot of the guess work. Worse case is you mess up, so? You get to do it again but now you know more than last time. I don't use recipes or measure things a whole lot anymore, I have over the years but learned what to look for and the 'how and why' so have the latitude to experiment relatively successfully and don't get too upset when I fail. A fail for me is a boon for the chickens. My audience isn't very large, as long as we're all happy and occasionally overjoyed it's all good. The best night is when the kids say 'thank you for making this wonderful dinner dad!'. I have no idea where that came from, they started it when they were about 4 (now 8 yo twins). I don't get it every night I cook, but it makes my day when I do.