Ken, I hope you won't panic when you see yellow leaves or even a few black spots. It may not be the disease but merely the shedding of old leaves. My Clotilde Souperts just had a huge flush, and now they are covered with dried up blooms and yellow leaves, but I'm not worried this time. I learned that this is how she cycles. In a week or two she'll be green and leafed out again and popping with flower buds. Teas do that, too, but not quite as dramatically. May I suggest visiting my HMF plant list (same user name)? It will give you an idea of safe plants in our area. I had NN and would still have it except it was looking like it wanted to be too big. Some on your list may need spraying, but spraying may not be your answer. Better to grow roses that are happy here without spraying. But your grand experiment is well worth a shot! I would just hold off on spraying until you see what's what. Young roses that don't have extensive root systems yet and get stressed due to heat and lack of water (from not having big root systems yet) often look unhealthy because they don't have the defenses yet to fend off the attackers. Give them plenty of water (daily for at least a month) and let them grow and get some equilibrium. You will almost certainly be replacing some on your list, but that's life. Come next July, August & September you will not want to be out in the garden spraying fungicide, but the right roses will be loving that heat provided you give them consistent water. Water is life to Florida roses, and more importantly, it is leaves and health. It's amazing what conditions a rose can tolerate, and equally amazing what an improvement will come from a little more of everything - water, food, compost. It won't be long, and you'll have you're sea-legs in your garden. Sad about Sdlm dying. You might try putting her in a pot and babying her until she recuperates, but if she's really gone, definitely replace her. A better rose for a Florida garden you will not find -- but she'll get some yellow leaves, too, after a flush. Sherry

Hello, My name is Mindy and I am also an addict. I really enjoyed reading this thread last night. I am new to Plumeria but I dove into it full force this month. I am currently trying to grow seeds from my Celadine tree. I planted 23 seeds a couple weeks ago and so far only 1 has sprouted. Yesterday I decided to float some of them in styrofoam boats. Anyways I just wanted to say hello and let you know that I appreciate everyone's advice on this forum and like the addicted newbie who started this thread, I am 33, a veteran, and finding plumeria soothing :)

Hi Vesters. So many things you wrote struck a chord with me as we experienced the same issues with my SD, who is now 14. We've had custody of her since she was 5, after gaining emergency and then full custody though a very nasty battle. After DH and his ex divorced SM moved SD hours away. SD began sleeping in her bed, showering with her, being completely dependent on her mom. BM thrived on this - it made her feel needed and important. SD couldn't (or wouldn't) do or try anything on her own. SD became BM's 'bff' and confidant - all at the mature age of 3. This continued until BM found a boyfriend, and then SD was kicked into her own bed in her own room on a different floor and told to go to sleep. Once that relationship ended SD was needed again and back in BM's bed, all the while hearing about BM's relationship woes. Fast forward a few years. We have custody, SD sees her mom EOW. She's still trying to have SD sleep with her (between boyfriends) and be dependent on her. The 'bff' behavior is worsening and we're hearing all about BM's love life from SD. SD is getting stomach aches right before visitations and worrying about how to take care of her mom. All so appropriate for a mother/daughter relationship. And then there was. . . "BM also used to say things to SD (right after I came on the scene) like, "I'd never let a man come between us" and "You're the only one I need" which sounds innocent enough, but it was very much meant as a "look at your father, moving on with his life, I'll never let that happen to us." I could have written that. BM is always saying this. . . in between the men in her life. But what SD figured out about 2 years ago is that her mom is full of sh@t. She started to see all these behaviors factored around her mom and what her mom needed on her mom's schedule. She was blinded by the 'my mom needs me' and 'my mom loves me best' until then, but with the help of her counselor and a little maturity she started to figure it out. I won't say she doesn't fall back into buying her mom's crud every now and again, but for the main part she can she the behavior for who it is really about - mom, not SD. I tell you all this so you know you are not alone, and also to give you hope. Your SD needs help, and she needs her dad to help her receive it, but she can recover from this. I will tell you one thing SD's counselor shared with us that was helpful for SD and for our tongues as we weren't biting them so hard. When you say "I'm always a little uncomfortable when she talks so openly about her BM with me (because I know the "real deal"), yet I'm always very careful to make sure I speak loving and positively about her ." you need to stop. This doesn't mean speak negatively, but you don't have to put a good spin on bad actions. Don't try to make mom's bad action ok. Don't make excuses for her. Listen to SD, let her know you understand why she would be upset, help her with generalized, non leading questions discover why she's upset, but don't then tell her it's all ok and mommy knows best. Later, when she figures out mommy doesn't, you will be seen as a liar. It's ok to say sometimes mommy's get confused, or mommy's make mistakes. This is likely better pronounced by DH at first, but you need to know that you don't have to be positive. Just don't be negative, if you get what I mean. :-) Good luck. Keep us updated, and keep your chin up. You are doing the right thing.

Sueb20 - I hear ya girlfriend! This hormonal rollercoaster is not for sissies. On a good night I was sleeping maybe 4 broken up hours. I never nap during the day. I have always been an insomniac, but could sleep five hours straight before, now since menopause (5 years) I am plagued by hot flashes that give me sweats then chills. I use BI hormones and these help to a degree but do not completely alleviate. I don't know if my flashes and chills are worse than others but I do know, if I don't use BI, I literally cannot go out in public. Sweat pours off my face and I actually passed out at the office once. So... Then before the holidays I started to have a real problem period sleeping and tried all the OTC remedies and my usual melatonin/valerian cocktail and was getting no where. I cannot take script meds. Then I decided to move to the guestroom because I was waking my DH with my tossing/turning, up to BR etc. For a month I guess I went through a sort of sleep detox and reset my patterns- I've had to do this before. Went a couple nights where I got may be two hours sleep but now am where I can sleep maybe four hours, then wake for a flash but don't need to get up for a BR visit, then can go back to sleep for a couple more hours. This is revolutionary for me. I believe my DH was keeping me (he snores) from actually getting into a sound REM and I would get up, wake completely read and have to restart the process and never get more than 3-4 broken hours. We talked about it yesterday and he thinks he is sleeping better too without me there. So he's getting 9 hours of undisturbed sleep instead of 8...I hate him ;) So my recommendation get an hormonal evaluation have them check your cortisol levels (saliva test) too. Get on some hormones. Lack of sleep is worse for your health than taking hormones. The devise that helps me the most for cooling during sleep is a small vinyl covered pad I bought in a heating pad combo that is used for icing an injury. I just keep it next to my pillow and when I have a flash I pull it over to lay my face and neck on. It is cool enough without refrigeration to do the trick. I turn it over a time or two to a cool spot till the flash passes. I have cooling pillows and jammies etc but this one little thing has helped me the most. That and moving out of the bedroom... Also Arianna Huffington has a sleep book out - has any one checked to see what she's come up with?