I'm sure grainlady will be around to give good scientific answers because you have so many variables. But, I can tell you for sure, Lars, that bagging the loaf after 15 minutes cooling will soften the bread. I let my sandwich bread cool several hours before storing.

/tricia

I think I bagged the previous loaves that I made fairly soon after baking, but I do remember reading yesterday or the day before that I was supposed to bag the bread shortly after baking. Next time I will wait longer, and I will not make any more bread until I get some more semolina flour. At least the bread tastes good, and all the bread that I have made in the machine has had very good flavor, especially the pumpernickel.

Lars

I think you solved the problem :-)

Wrapped bread stays softer longer if you wrap it if it is SLIGHTLY warm, but only 15-minutes as you and tricia thought, is probably still too hot. If you wait until the loaf is completely cool it will taste better, but won't stay as soft as long as when bagged when slightly warm. If you need the loaf to stay soft for 5-7 days, then bagging while it's slightly warm is a good idea. If the bread will be consumed quickly, you may like the taste better if it's completely cool. Your choice based on the need.

According to the American Institute of Baking (Manhattan, KS) for the best internal temperature for wrapping white pan bread: "The optimum temperature will depend on a number of factors... It is generally considered an internal temperature range of 100-105-degrees F is a satisfactory range [for wrapping]. Higher temperatures can cause gumming, while lower temperatures can result in excessive moisture loss [moisture migrating from the crumb through the crust] and reduced shelf life."

Be sure to check your owner's manual. There should be a troubleshooting chart that might be helpful for identifying some of these little problems and how to fix them. At least it's a quick place to look.

-Grainlady

Years ago, a grocery store had wonderful baked-in-house bread. But half the time, we'd find mold when we got home - or even still on the shelf. I suspect they wrapped it in a heated baking environment. DH & I both missed it when they discontinued it. So did the cat.

Thanks, Grainlady - I thought there might have been some other factors, but I am still learning how to use this machine.

I started reading the new book I got, The Bread Lover's Bread Machine Cookbook by Beth Hensperger, and it has given me some information that I think will also be helpful. I like the way it was written, and it is helping me to feel more comfortable with my machine. I'm at the point in my life where I really do not want gadgets to be so complicated that I have to read massive books or instructions to be able to use them, and this especially includes cameras. I still have not yet figured out how to do a manual focus with my camera that I have had for several years, although I gave the instructions to Kevin, and he figured it out in a few minutes. He got himself a new camera at the Sony store with an employee discount, but he won't let me use it because I have to use a different eyepiece focus. He also bought a very expensive telescoping lens for it, but that is not something that I would need, since my own camera has very good optical zoom.

Back to the bread machine - I think Beth's book makes it easier for me to understand how the machine works, and I have found the instruction manual to be a bit confusing. I tried to have Kevin read the instructions to me while I am doing the settings, but he does not seem interested in helping. It is difficult for me to look at the instructions, then look at the machine controls, refer back to the instructions, etc., as I tend to get lost in the process, and it is difficult to backtrack during the settings. I found out from Beth's book that most machines have memories in case of power outage,and this is why unplugging the machine will not reset it, even when I want to start over. Part of the problem was that I generally use the delayed timer, which requires me to skip certain steps and refer to a different page, and the delay page did not have information for resetting. I did just find that I can reset the machine by pressing and holding down on the "start" button, but I missed that info by skipping to the delay setting.

The instruction book gives no information about how long to let the bread cool before wrapping it and it has very little info on storage. We are not going to eat a loaf of bread in one day, and so storage is important. I have stored my loaves at room temperature for a week, and none of them have gotten mold. I do have a problem with mold for Trader Joe's flour tortillas, and so I have to vacuum seal them for storage with butcher paper between them, or else they fuse together.

Lars

Lars,

For what it's worth, most of the same "rules" that apply to bread-making by hand generally apply to the bread machine. This is especially true if you only use it for mixing dough.

I give my bread machine students a copy of "Bread Machines for Dummies" by Glenna Vance and Tom Lacalamita (he has another great bread machine cookbook you might enjoy "The All-NEW Ultimate Bread Machine Cookbook"). The somewhat insulting name for "Bread Machines for Dummies" isn't the best choice, but the instructions are excellent and I've never had a failed recipe from the book.

If you want to get the most out of your bread machine experience, find a copy of "The Cook's Encyclopedia of Bread Machine Baking" by Jennie Shapter. It's such a beautiful book to look through, and full of information and great recipes.

Beth Hersperger's book was the first one I purchased when I got my first bread machine, and the one I liked the LEAST. I have a number of her cookbooks and prefer "The Pleasure of Whole-grain Breads" which also includes many recipes for bread machines.

I'd also suggest reading the first 99 pages of Shirley O. Corriher's "CookWise" when it comes to bread science.

As an example: If I want a more open crumb, good for toasting, add the fat after the gluten has been developed (at the add-in beep). If you are making sandwich bread and want a close grain that will hold mayo and loose drippy fillings, add the fat early. "CookWise" explains why and how that works, as well as so many other things you can translate to using your bread machine.

It's a great subject to study :-).

-Grainlady

I have the "Bread Machines for Dummies" book and did not particularly like it - it was just not what I wanted, although I did make the Milwaukee Beer Bread recipe. Beth's book goes into detail about using bigas, and I found that more interesting than anything I found in the "Dummies" book. I want to make something that approaches sourdough in taste and texture, and I did not find anything like that in the Dummy book. I thought the beer bread might come close, but it was still far off the mark.

I'll look at some other books after I try a few more recipes from the ones I have. I still have not mastered the instruction book from Panasonic!

Lars

When I used to use my bread maker, I too found the bread too soft. It was hard to slice and got all squishy.

I found that by cooling completely then putting in a plastic bag for several hours (I usually leave mine overnight) it slices *much* better.

In fact, I still do that now that I make my bread from scratch. I also freeze the loaf after it's sliced, then I snap off the slices that I want.

I did get some more semolina flour, and the last loaf I made used 1-1/2 cups WW flour, 2/3 cup semolina, ~3/4 cup white flour, and 2 Tbsp VWG. Not sure about the white flour, but I made sure that the total was 3 cups flour in all. I set the bread machine for regular white bread, the size for medium, and the crust for dark. This gave me the nice crust that I wanted and the texture that I like. I also used one egg for part of the liquid but could not notice much difference from that, other than that the crust seemed a bit crisper.

I tend to butter the outside of the loaves when they come out, and this time I let the bread cool completely before I bagged it. So far, this is the best loaf I've made in the machine, except perhaps for the pumpernickel, and I combined a couple of recipes to make that. Next time I'll make pumpernickel again, and I bought instant coffee for that recipe, as I do not want to have to grind coffee beans to make a loaf of bread when instant coffee should work reasonably well. I don't drink coffee, but I like the flavor, and Kevin keeps blond roast beans on hand. I bought espresso instant coffee, and so that will probably have more flavor. I also use cocoa and molasses in the pumpernickel.

Lars