"My experience (in Minneapolis) with some high-end plumbing fixtures we wanted to buy: Go to 'authorized' dealer. Ask sales clerk about product - they no nothing - they have never used/installed any of the products, nor do they have knowledge of plumbing. They rummage for a catalog and show you the picture. Then they say they will order it. They say it will take two weeks to get it. Notice everything is 'two weeks'. Pay sales tax." I just went through this exactly. The salesman couldn't even bother to put his glasses on so he could read the information on his computer screen. I asked him to move over and I looked it up for him. The only reason I bought the tub locally is because I'm not sure when our demolition/construction will start and I wanted a temporary place to store it. There was no price matching - from the beginning, he said he couldn't compete with online though his prices were a little cheaper than some of the other local retail places I had looked at which is why I went with his shop. At least they weren't gouging. Yes, these local plumbing store fronts are definitely on their way out. Doesn't really matter if we buy on line now or not. The horses have already left the barn (or whatever that saying is).. too late to close the door even with new contract agreements from the big plumbing guys. That just means the Chinese will infiltrate even more. I have faith in Capitalism, which can be both good and bad. There will be some kind of a new storefront, maybe they won't have any storefront locally but just a huge warehouse/showroom 50 miles from downtown to look at the product and then go order on line in their back room. No salespeople except the ones you talk to in India whom you reach also by calling on the line in the back room, probably even use a Skype equivalent. It will be a new world or a continuation of what is going on now. 3d printing will most definitely have some place in this new world. Don't even need to ship fully manufactured appliances - can make three different refrigerators using the same metal for the interior racks but just have a different recipe on the "printer". Might even be able to pick your order up same day.

appliance_guy=== foodonastump=== Thanks for responding. Though I've only been a member for less than a week, I have been avidly reading/following a lot of the posts regarding professional style residential ranges, such as Bluestar, Capital C, and American Range since February [that's when we bought our first apartment]. I'm well aware of the BS issues talked about on GW such as the oven door sticking, loud banging noises, igniter, workmanship, etc. Despite all of the issues with BS, it is still very high on my list of ranges I'm considering. Also high on my list are the open burner ranges from Capital and American Range, but they haven't even gone into production, so I'm rather cautious about purchasing something that's not out yet. I currently cook on a 30 inch gas Hotpoint range that came with the apartment, it works fine, but we're upgrading as an investment and because I cook a lot. My original post question deals with the simple fact that I've not ever bought a major appliance. This is the first apartment I've purchased, and prior to this my only 'major' appliance purchase has been a toaster oven. I'm a bit intimidated by sales people in that I don't know what the real bottom line for discounts are. I'd like to know what the etiquette is for getting a good price. Can one expect a 10-20 percent discount by properly haggling? In most industries, it seems like there are always discounts during a down economy.

Hi squarefour, We worked directly through our local plumbing supply house for all faucets and plumbing fixtures, but we had to make it clear to our GC (who had to let his plumber know up front) that we would handle the purchase of all fixtures. Our local plumbing supply saleswoman gave us about 40% off retail (maybe partly because it was the 2nd whole house remodel we did w/her). We bought mostly Kohler fixtures with some Hansgrohe and Grohe. I price-checked against several online retailers and found, on most items, she was giving us a comparable, or sometimes better, price as those found on efaucets.com. You can save even more during the efaucets free shipping or 10% off promotions, which they run quite frequently. In a past remodel, we had a plumber get quite upset about the fact that we intended to buy fixtures directly through the supply house because (unknown to us) he had bid the job with the expectation that he would also get a markup on the fixtures. We ended up working it out with him and paying him a bit more, but our GC had not explained this process to us (it was a cost plus contract) so we assumed it was okay for us to do our own thing with fixtures. During our most recent remodel, we knew the question of who buys plumbing fixtures was one we should specifically ask the GC before the contract was signed (both for plumbing and electrical). It was fine with him and was perhaps different because we were on a fixed price contract and maybe that makes a difference, but I don't really see why it would, as long as you make it clear to the GC and his plumber that he should not assume he'll get any fixture mark-up on the job, and his bid numbers need to reflect that. Also, some plumbers will try to convince you that it's important for them to buy the fixtures because they will then stand behind them, but I've never understood that position because the fixture warranty is what matters on the fixtures, and the contractors' work is supposed to also be guaranteed, so if there's a problem with either within the set period of time, you should technically be covered. If, for example, there's an issue with a faucet and you have to pay a plumber to come back and fix it, you'd probably have to pay for the plumber's time (unless you get the manufacturer to agree to cover it all) so you'll have to weigh the risk/benefit of getting the lower price on the fixture. I'm sure others will disagree with this strategy, and of course, I'm speaking from the homeowner's perspective, not the contractor's. Regarding light fixtures, as it turned out, I wish I bought these online. My electrician told me he and many of his clients have had great luck using online retailers. Instead, I used my local lighting showroom, after researching the types of fixtures I wanted online. They did give me a fair price (which I, of course, doublechecked against online retailers), but actually, the local showroom service left a lot to be desired. We had a few fixtures that came in damaged, and they did not "pre-check" them so they sat in my garage unopened yet damaged and then when our electrician came back to set fixtures, we found several of them were broken and, as it turned out, were on backorder so it took about another 4-5 weeks to get them in and could have delayed the final building inspection. The electrician claimed that it was the lighting store's responsibility to check the fixtures for quality control when they arrived in the store before we picked them up. We also paid one of the lighting showroom "designers" a $100 fee to come out to the house, give us design advice for proper fixture sizes, review our order and make sure that our downrods were correctly sized for chandeliers, etc. As it turned out, when the fixtures were delivered, she had not ordered long enough downrods on the DR chandelier and two of the ceiling fans. Again, another 3 week wait for these with another return trip by electricians! Very frustrating. So, you can get poor service either way, and who knows, I may have been better served by going online. There are some excellent lighting retailers online who offer good phone support, as I've since found out. Here are my favorite online retailers for both lighting and plumbing, all of which seem to offer excellent prices - For lighting - www.1800lighting.com (the store is actually called Capitol Lighting, but this is their website address) www.lightinguniverse.com For plumbing - www.efaucets.com - they seem to offer around 40% off retail, but I don't have any experience with their service. Also, do a google search for ongoing coupons for all of these websites and you may find they have a weekend sale of 10% off or some such thing frequently. Best of luck on your project!

It is, but I just felt bad doing that because he was so helpful. He was all ready to ring me up when I told him I wanted to go over the selections with a designer who I was meeting tomorrow. I asked if I could take the list of products with me, but he said no, they don't do that. I then asked if I could photograph it and he said no. When I asked why, he said I could then take it and try to get a better price elsewhere. That's what got me thinking when I went home and plugged in the exact products (which I remembered) and came up with $500 less. $200 is from taxes which I wouldn't have to pay, so they came somewhat close to the internet price. And they were giving me 10% off which is contractor pricing. I asked them if they could go lower since I was buying a lot of lights but they said no. They did allow me to photograph the lights though. Interestingly enough, the price tags make no mention of company. Again I guess they do that to make it harder for the consumer to compare prices elsewhere. I feel if the price differential were like $200 or so that it would be worth it for the help I received, but $500? Then again if everyone did that, they'd be out of business I suppose. So that's the conundrum.