With a dry sense of humor (or, homour), it's really easy to take it as rude. I know with my own, I get into trouble all of the time because it sounds as if I'm being rude, when, in fact, that would never be my intention (except with certain bank personnel and a manicurist...but I digress). In another thread, someone posted something that I think was meant to be funny and I typed a response in kind but didn't post it because I wasn't sure if I would come across as being a terrible person.

When and where are you going in England? I envy you!

Yeah, I sometimes wonder if I'm "part English", because I know I can come across as harsh - when I don't really intend to be. (OK, so sometimes I do, but I'm not afraid to admit it then! ;-D)

The trip I'm planning is the one my mom and I are taking to the Cotswolds in March. Just us girls. (Or, "just us gulls") as our Brit friend Joan would say. Mom took me to England for my very first time a number of years ago, and now we'll be doing it again. I'm really looking forward to it. We'll be staying here, for most of our little adventure. (Sorry for the highjacked thread!)

Not that I am defending the current healthcare system in the US, but people in England die of treatable diseases while they are on the waiting list. In a number of countries where the healtcare is free, it is a moot point if you wait so long the disease progresses or you die anyway.

Here we go again, Jen. I was going to further explain my post, but, nevermind. Sigh....

Honestly, I've never heard (or thought) about the british and their teeth. LOL

That cottage is to die for Jen!

tina

Aunt Jen...hijacking. I was going to spend 2 days in the Cotswold area and ended up with 4 days at a BB. My favorite place was the veterinary hospital (All Creatures Great and Small). The people there loved Americans because we were the reason the books and TV series were a success. On the other hand a lot of Americans are seen as snooty and rude to a lot of the UK areas. A sad commentary to us. I must not be the same (which is nice) as they always thought I was Canadian. Thank you anyone from Canada.

Yes, the crooked teeth has always been a curiosity and added to a lot of comedians stash. I don't think it is that much of a thing now. I always thought it was genetic (but then there are a lot of us who were part of them somehow long ago), tough call to pay for or they were behind on dentistry..especially growing up in so many farm areas where they may not have access. All of which is the same for any of us in the days of yore.

It is funny they even have a website that still hits on this subject. I'm old so I remember the comments, but thought it had gone away.

Emagineer, I didn't know Americans are seen as snooty and rude in a lot of the UK areas. I wonder which areas. If anything, I would think that they think we are very bad drivers! I think we went through two tires and a couple of side mirrors.

Jen! That cottage looks fabulous. I love the Cotswolds. I have two favorite places in the world. One being in Lenox, MA, the other being just outside of Broadway and Bourton on the Water, Buckland Manor. I felt as though I was living in a fairy tale for a week.

How wonderful you're going with your mom!

Even the Royal Family does not have great teeth. Diana's were even starting to look a bit British as she approached 40. If she had been a 30 something in the US with her finances and status, she would have had flawless superwhite veneers. It would have been expected.

One of the things about Britain for me was: I thought that things would be more similar since we essentially speak a variation of the same language. When I was staying there, you had to purchase the plug for the appliances separately from the appliance itself: the wire was hanging out with no plug on it(and they were not always available at the same store--you had to go to a ...plug store or something). And they sold 4-6 oz cans of soda. I don't know if these things are still the same.

A friend I met much later lived in England at the same time I was there (just briefly for school) and we figured out we had been in the same movie theatre for the same show. He spent Hours seeing movies in that theatre because it was cheaper than feeding the meter to run the heat in his bed sit. Yep, he had to feed coins to run the heat.

Really, Oakley? I thought maybe we'd moved past what was ... past. I have.

Sorry - got a bit flustered at being ::sighed:: at. Anyway - Emagineer, I've spent an afternoon visiting a couple of Cotswold villages, but never stayed there for any length of time so this upcoming visit will be a real treat. Marlene, we'll be staying in a little place called Bourton on the Hill, which is a short ride from Moreton-in-Marsh, where the main train station is. We'll be renting a car, so I'll have to get used to driving on the "wrong" side of the road again.

According to what I've read (and observed on my past trips to the UK), the "rudeness" that Brits perceive in Americans has a lot to do with our forward nature. It's true that they tend to be reserved and very guarded, while we sort of rush in and lay all our cards on the table upon our very first introduction. Our "eagerness" is often viewed as pushiness or nosiness. We don't mean it that way, but that's how it's taken.

It's fascinating how our cultural differences still come into play.

What's so interesting to me, is that I could have spent so much time in England and never have known their perception of some Americans. It makes sense though. I believe the French feel the same way, and hence, why THEY are considered rude...bit alas...that's for another thread.

It is fascinating about cultural differences, not just in another country, but in our own country. Even moving from Los Angeles to the Portland, Oregon area, I have encountered things I never did while living in L.A. I'm sure it existed, but perhaps I was just oblivious.

The crooked-teeth thing was sent-up in a funny way in the Austin Powers movies I thought!!!

I never really did care for most of the "British Humor". SOME Monty Python stuff was OK...some I just shook my head.

I used to have pretty crooked front teeth (guess I would've made a good Brit!), and a misaligned jaw. I used to get weird headaches due to the jaw thing, so in my 20's (the 80's!), I got braces. Had to use rubber-bands inside to pull the jaw to level, and had to have 8 teeth pulled to make room for the front teeth to slide over!

Now the ol' jaw closes square, and my teeth have the nice curve in front!

So...for many years now, I've viewed the "British-teeth" thing thru a sympathetic lens I guess! Our DD had braces too, and her teeth are flawless. Gads!...next Sept. She'll be 21 (aaauuuughh!), and Dad will be 38....;-0

WTH?!?!?!

;-)

Faron

When I was in England, upon meeting someone I made a joke. His reply was "ah, you're an American". I'm still not sure if that was because he heard my accent or because of my "forwardness" of making the joke right off the bat. (He also clearly didn't like my British companion so that may have influenced his take on me. Whatever, it was a fun party and I enjoyed myself in typical American fashion.)

Although we sometimes offend a few people, I think Americans are known for having friendly & outgoing personalities and that is, mostly, not a bad thing.

Jen, that cottage looks fabulous. How lucky for you & your Mum to be making the trip.

As to the teeth, because traditionally Americans are more of a melting pot, we might have more people with crooked teeth than other cultures. Think of it as maybe you're jaw shape was inherited from your Italian genes but your teeth size & shape were inherited from your Mexican genes so they don't fit perfectly into your Italian head. For whatever reason (and I didn't look at the original link), our country probably has more dentists & orthodontists so it's more common to have those things corrected. It's not just vanity, there are also health reasons to correct a maladjusted bite.

Disclaimer: I wore braces as a teen. Although my heritage wasn't from widely divergent gene pools, I ended up with a mouthful of teeth that didn't fit perfectly. And we considered it a worthwhile expense to correct that.

Now-a-days, the world is more mixed, with people moving & cultures mixing more than ever before, so I imagine crooked teeth is/will be a global thing. I'm not saying all other cultures have perfect teeth, clearly that's not true, but I wouldn't be surprised to read that statistically there were or have been more Americans with crooked teeth than other countries. And maybe more access to orthodontia to correct any problems. And more insurance or excess income to pay to correct any problems. And more likely to follow a cultural norm to correct any problems. I dunno, I'm just theorizing on something I once read.

Isn't this some of the reason we travel? Not to see crooked teeth (!), but to experience how other humans live their lives, what's important to them, how they handle themselves, and to see what they do differently than we do. Sometimes we're the pushy ones, sometimes we're annoyed by the locals & how pushy they seem.

Hhireno, well said. I love this quote from Mark Twain:

Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.

May I step in and be referee?
I didn't read the linked article until just now, so the way I read Oakley's post she was saying that Americans are too obsessed with our looks and trying to be too perfect.

Then I read Auntjen's remarks, and realized that there must be something more in the link, and indeed there was. It was someone stereotyping all Brits by asking the question "Why do people from the UK (Great Britain) have crooked/horrible teeth?"

So I agree with both of you - we should be more accepting of ourselves as we are, warts and all, AND we shouldn't judge an entire population by a few examples.

"we shouldn't judge an entire population by a few examples"

So true Terriks! Perhaps Oakley didn't read the link herself and see what was there . . .

tina

I think crooked British teeth is an outdated idea. Braces come with the National Health Service, and most people under 40 have had braces, no matter what social class.
And Watching the English is brilliant. She's a social anthropologist, and I think her observations are, to use a Brit-ism, spot on.

Just read some of the reviews on Amazon, and Watching the English sounds fascinating. I have never been to England, but enjoy the British sense of humor, and I think that it would be interesting to read about the psyche that developed it.

Terriks - thanks. You clarified the intent of my post precisely.

Speaking of British physical specimens, I think this young lady is breathtakingly lovely. Well done, Wills. Well done.

{{gwi:1527266}}

Sorry to disappoint you Tina, but I did read the article.

Below is a link from a British newspaper, 2000. They did NOT have orthodontics included in their healthcare. Maybe now they do. I don't know, but a more recent article said they didn't.

I am not lumping all Brits together, but I do find the majority of Brits to have crooked teeth, which I LIKE.

I also didn't watch Austin Powers, but I just found out the movie did make fun of the Brit's teeth.

Seems to me many many people wonder the same thing as I do. :)

Kate Middleton come from a wealthy family and it's obvious she's had braces.

I have to wonder Jen, if she hadn't of had braces, would you still say "good choice, Will?"

All the articles I've read BY the Brits online regarding their teeth backs up my OP.

I'm also not saying they have cavities or bad teeth, I just said they have "crooked" teeth and the Brits seem to agree, because there is a REASON behind it. They don't care much for orthodontics. That's ALL I was saying, and I wish we felt the same way!

Here is a link that might be useful: British Teeth

Terriks - thanks. You clarified the intent of my post precisely.

Speaking of British physical specimens, I think this young lady is breathtakingly lovely. Well done, Wills. Well done.

{{gwi:1527266}}

::sigh:: I tried.

Aunt Jen,

I think the British would see great homour in some of these posts.

Regarding Kate M., when I see pictures of them, especially the informal engagement picture, I just want to melt.

It'd be pretty boring if we all felt the same way.

All I meant by my remark Oakley is that I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I think a person can still be lovely while having crooked teeth! Someone mentioned Lauren Hutton - she is striking! I don't think Jen is so shallow to think someone unattractive because of their teeth.

tina

My mother was born in 1924 and was raised in London until she emigrated to the US in 1954. I grew up hearing this stupid stereotype.

Here's a very short European history lesson. During both WWI and WWII, England was very much the center of bombing, evacuations, rations and families being separated because multiple members were drafted into military service while only the youngest and mom stayed out. Both women and men were drafted and went to serve their country. Money for things like superflous and vanity motivated dental care was not around, nor would it have been anywhere near a priority.

Staying alive, eating and keeping some sort of roof over one's head took precedence.

Sure, people had crooked teeth. But then so do Americans today if they don't have lots of money. Just look around you.

I have to wonder Jen, if she hadn't of had braces, would you still say "good choice, Will?"

Um, I really don't have an oral fixation. Kate is lovely because she exudes poise and confidence, not because she may have had braces at one time. Good grief.

Again a thread that should have been fairly innocuous turns into a snark fest: there seems to be a culture of embracing taking offense. Its tedious.

Nah, this isn't a snarkfest. I've seen snarkfests here, and this doesn't even come close. Perhaps this is a bit of that British "dry delivery" in action -- words not being picked up on the receiving end quite the way they are intended from the issuer.

Marlene, I agree with you - I think William and Kate are an absolutely adorable couple. I know the royals aren't respected in many circles, but I have always thought that William was a special person, and I'm so happy that he's so obviously happy.

Maybe this will help

Terriks, yep, I definitely think that will help lighten us up!

Good grief! There must be some history that I am not aware of. Auntjen has not been posting much lately. I have noticed that she is coming back more often now. It didn't take long for the controversy to follow. WTH?
I always wanted straight teeth but my parents couldn't afford to do it. I am now in my 60's and just in the past few years both my husband and I got braces because we wanted to and we could. As for others having straight or crooked teeth-who cares?

Back to Oakley's original thought...yes, and perfect teeth are just the beginning. I think I hear you saying that we're a nation fixated on perfect parts, and we don't hesitate to buy them if necessary!

I was at my sister's yesterday for a Christmas celebration. She recently (as many of you know) had a mastectomy, chemo and radiation for breast and lung cancer. We were going out to a nice restaurant, so she had on her wig and was wearing her prosthesis. I told her she looked great. She said, "Fake boobs, fake hair!" I replied, "Well, you're right in step with the times!" and we both laughed.

Wow, thanks vickij. Way to make a person feel like crap.

Actually - I take that back. Nobody can make a person feel like crap without their permission.

I really lack the mental/emotional energy to devote to defending what I feel were innocent posts on my part (with the exception of my last post to Oakley, perhaps, where I dared to state that I don't have an oral fixation and capped my statement with "good grief") - so I think I'll just save everyone a lot of time and once again delete this particular forum from my list of favorites.

I'll see some of you on the decorating side. Conversations just isn't my cup of tea anymore.

Must be that full moon.

Oakley, I like ya chickie but you are very sensitive/defensive. When I first read this thread I thought,"Why go there?" I honestly didn't get it at first. Not that I thought you meant anything mean but I didn't really now how to respond. Notice this thread sat for some time before anyone commented. IMO, Jen (or Tina or anyone I read) didn't say anything offensive. You took it wrong.

Vicki, are we reading the same thread?

Back on subject a little, I had braces as a 12 year old and was the only one in my sixth grade class who had them. Lots of popular girls made fun of me and it was horrendous.
Fast forward a few years and when I had them removed, I was so disappointed that I wasn't immediately pretty.
One of the first comments was from my aunt, "Oh, your teeth are so small".
Nice one!

Anyway, having been around so many young people with NO teeth, the straightness or not doesn't really concern me much.

I do wonder why those with yellow teeth don't get some white strips pronto, though.

Auntjen, I do hope you post your vacation photos when you get back. I'm already eager to see them!

I would not normally stir any pot but really, really feel like I will this time.

First though, stinky, that made my day. Tell your sis I said HI! When people ask me where I got my hair done I tell them they would never want to go to my place. Also, when others mention my hair looks different, folks who have not seen me for a while, I like to tell them it is not mine. They get all confused then realize my reality.

Ok, Aunt Jen, I hope to definitely see you on the decorating side. I truly missed you this year and when I see you post these days I am always happy to read. Please, if you ever want to comment on anything I post I promise to take your opinion, whether I like it or not, as just that, your opinion.

Here is my stir- Many of us here are familiar with each other enough to know what to expect, when to drop the subject and move on, and when we should basically shut up. We can push each other's buttons pretty hard but somehow I think we go on because we respect opinions- even if we think, in the privacy of our own homes, that they are the opinions of jack@$#$#. (Not that I would ever think anyone is a jack$@#$.) I really think vickij's comment was uncalled for. Personally, even though history shows member since 2001, I cannot recall enough comments from vickij to know vickij's personality. But I can say that the recent comment about auntjen was rude. There, I stirred.

I think this was an interesting topic. I learned a lot from some of the comments. I disagreed with some, agreed with others. I will say I am not positive myself that Kate had braces, the front two teeth are not flat to the next two teeth, just my opinion. I do think it is funny how people from this country think, for example, the French are rude and that some French think Americans are rude. I have observed on my own that English people do not have super pretty teeth. Not sure why, some comments here sure made me think. I do know that my beautiful dd has one crooked tooth, I can afford braces, but do not want to further her vanity any more than it already is at 13. When she smiles not one person can see her crooked little tooth. I think she could land a prince easily.

Oh, and I think William is special, too. I saw their engagement photo and wondered how Diana would have felt. I am sure she would have been so happy to see her son achieve a real love that she had only hoped she could have achieved with Charles when they had their famous photo taken.

I have never even heard of the stereotype about Brit's teeth, but have always wondered why there teeth weren't so nice.

Oakley's OP made me curious, because I have thought that all these years!

Shannon, just for the record, when I read auntjens first post, I thought she was doing a little backlash at Oakley's comment because auntjen was being a little too sensitive about the Brit's teeth and the English being being stereotyped. Why do you think she pasted part of the article about Americans being racists, borderline retarded, obese, etc? That is where the stir began, IMO, so why are you thinking it started with vickij's comment?

Shannon, I am not knocking auntjen's comment at all, that is her opinion, but, don't knock someone else's opinion either. Why do you think think it is ok for some, but, not for others?

I am fascinated by stereotyping. You know the stereotype isn't true for the entire group, but you have seen enough people in the group who match the stereotype that you can inwardly nod your head in agreement. British with bad teeth, fat Americans, lisping gay men, bad Asian drivers - you can insult just about any group by naming a stereotype. The writers of the comedy show Modern Family have taken it to an art form, "Leave it to the gays to raise the only underachieving Asian in America!"

As Paster points out in her post, sometimes there are historical reasons for a larger than expected number of people within a group to have a trait. Those of you who watch Oprah and have listened to Dr. Oz know that black Americans are prone to diabetes because their relatives had higher survival rates on the slave ships coming to America because of their bodies' ability to retain water. That kept them from dying of dehydration but left their descendants prone to diabetes and carrying water weight. There is a field of study called medical anthropology that studies things like alleged higher rates of alcoholism in native Americans.

Miss Shannon, thanks for the kind words. Will tell Peggy you said hello when I see her again Saturday! Hope you are doing well and feeling great this holiday season. Peggy is doing remarkably well, I'm happy to report.

She doesn't wear her wig very often, but since we were going out to a nice place, she wore it. Her hair has grown in a little & I think it looks adorable. I told her that as it grows she should keep it cut short like a pixie, always! It's such a great look! She said she sees women with that sort of "do" and likes it on them, because they have high cheekbones. I said, yes, but you have those great, sparkling blue eyes!

Anyhoo, hope Oakley doesn't mind the hi-jack. I just couldn't resist saying Hi back to you Shannon, and wanted to say thanks. You're such a sweetie. Merry Christmas (or merry whatever you celebrate!) Wishing you a healthy, happy New Year too!

I was "doing a little backlash"? No. My post was a direct quote from Oakley's link. I felt that the entire link that Oakley posted was open for discussion.

This is just dumb. :-/ I'm not here to make backhanded comments to others. If I have something to say, I'll say it directly. What's ridiculous is innuendo and assumption. Let's just not go there anymore, please! In the spirit of the holiday, let's just please all try to get along and move past the pettiness that has gotten us snarled up in the past. I have neither the time nor the energy for that kind of stuff at this point in my life. And really - who does?

Olliesmom- yes, everyone is intitled to opinions, which is why we come here. I just see a difference between how Sheesharee posted her latest comment and the way vickij did. I enjoy the freedom we have here to share our opinions, but I do not enjoy someone making a comment the way vickij did. Other posters made some references without being so rude.

Yes, there must be a full moon.

Two of my favorite home related shows are British - - Location, Location and Building a New Life in the Country. In the past I have thought that, in general, it seems that the British aren't so caught-up in the physical... whether it be hair styles, teeth, weight, etc., they somehow seem more comfortable in their own skin. I know that there are lots of beautiful, stylish folks in Britan - London is a fashion centre of course - but somehow the British just don't appear as obsessed with it all as those of us in North America.

Maybe it's the Hollywood-influence here, all those gorgeous and styled stars with perfect teeth and hair and body. But rather than imply there is something 'wrong' with the Brits (and I don't think that was Oakley's intent), I think it speaks more to our image issues in North America.... I think as a whole, we've become too obsessed with the physical. Like Pal said above, even some members of the Royal Family has less-than-perfect teeth. Tony Blair has less-than-perfect teeth. On the other hand, can you imagine Mrs. Obama or Mrs. Clinton with crooked or yellowing teeth? I just don't think you'd ever see it here.

When I was a kid, you knew who all the rich kids were, lol, they were the ones who got braces. I grew up with crooked teeth and I know about the self-image issues that go along with them. Even though my teeth were perfectly healthy, functional, and not horribly crooked.... it was a BIG DEAL for me, and I ended up getting braces at 38 at a cost of $7,200. I'm glad I did it, but it is also a bit sad and unfortunate that I (and other kids too, I'm sure) felt that societal pressure in the first place.

"Leave it to the gays to raise the only underachieving Asian in America!"

I loved that line!

I've heard that old saw for years, too. Leno makes cracks about British teeth so much that I wonder about his obsession - maybe he's been surrounded by American celebrities for too long. I took the OP to mean that we Americans are, in general, overly concerned about superficial appearances. If the media and online forums are truly representative of our thinking, then I'd have to say Oakleyok is correct and I agree that it would be nicer if folks could just overlook imperfections and not judge so harshly.

For two years I suffered with painful braces in high school, only to have my upper front teeth shift together after the braces were removed. It's not very obvious, but I've thought about trying to correct them. Every time I look into braces, I find something far more pressing on which to spend the money. As for whitening, my teeth are already sensitive and wearing those white strips makes them more so. My (adult) dd wanted to have her teeth whitened at the dentist's office, since hers were discolored from too much fluouride and antibiotics during childhood. Afterwards, they looked nice but she said, "Never again!"

I do wish that some people (not on this forum - referring to IRL or other sites) would not be so very harsh about other's appearances. I do not recall my grandmother, or her contemporaries, being at all worried about wearing sleeveless dresses in the summer even though they'd all developed soft, comfy laps and arms for cuddling. These days, even women who are fit and healthy feel anxious about exposing their arms if they're not completely taut. After years of limited mobility brought about by many (sometimes botched) surgeries and a few accidents, I am most definitely plus size. It's astonishing the comments that some people have made, often pretending to be "helpful."

I'd love to be more at home in my own skin, and I envy that trait in others. Instead, I compare my aging, fluffy self to my younger self (thin enough that I worked as a model for local stores in my teens) and often feel as if I shouldn't leave the house for fear of disgusting someone with my orthopedic shoes, avoirdupois and ivory (not white) teeth.

Not only was it a full moon, last night was a full moon lunar eclipse on the solstice! The last one was on Dec 21, 1638.

Thank you rockmanor for getting what I was saying. My topic was supposed to be an innocent one, not a topic to make fun of other's and to bash me.

Ironically, I've never seen anyone IRL mention British teeth before. Ever. It was something I personally have noticed the past few years. And my lineage is British!

I wasn't making fun of them, nor calling them ugly. If it came off like I was stereotyping them, that wasn't my intent.

So it bothered me when posters come in and start lecturing me (I should be used to it by now, lol) and twisting my words around. There are only 3 posters here who intentionally do that to me on a constant basis. Why, I don't know, and then it's like a mob mentality when I defend myself. I think I have a "Kick Me" sign on my back. No wonder people get depressed! lol

On a side note, it's hypocritical to bash someone in one thread like was done to me above, then say on another thread "we should be nice to each other" by the basher. I guess Pick on Oakely is the exception. But I'm not going to be ran off by those three. Nope. I've made too many friends IRL because of this forum.

Teeth. I've seen so many teens & adults get braces for cosmetic reasons and I always wondered why, when they look just fine! If it's for heath reasons or for chewing, etc., then that's another story.

I love the British, my LR is decorated with fine British prints. I came this close to going to England last year but had to cancel at the last minute. I have a pen pal in England who lives in Cumbria.

What I'm saying (again) is I adore the British teeth! I love that they don't feel the need to go out and get braces if their eye teeth are up higher than the rest of their teeth. I find that to be attractive on a person.

But I'm NOT talking about the color of their teeth. Haven't noticed it.

So once again, I apologize if you all thought I was dissing them because I wasn't.

Oakley, no way I was going to touch this topic ... I'm still not. Just wanted to say no one is lecturing you or twisting your words. They're sharing an opinion the same way you are. It's too bad you can't see that.

Right - where is the "lecture"? Where is the "word twisting"? You didn't even say much of anything to be twisted. If you're offended because I said I agreed with words contained in your link, then this just completely defies further rational discussion.

I think it's high time that all of the pettiness comes to an end. Happy holidays, Oakley. And I sincerely mean that. I wish you well.