Oh Amy, my heart goes out to all involved/touched by this tragedy :(

It is just too raw, give it some time and you will talk. Talk is good. Just sometimes it needs to wait a little.

My neice is going through the same thing. The death of her friend happened this summer, and she is still grieving.

I think that potentially what differentiates a natural death from one from suicide is that sometimes the survivors carry a sense of guilt that they should have known and been able to prevent the suicide. You may want to gently talk about this and see if your daughter is feeling any of those feelings.

Participating in any memorial services, and anything else that may be set up as a memorial can be good. For instance, a scholarship fund, or contributing to a good cause that meant something to your daughter's friend, is a good way to feel that the person will be remembered, and it turns thoughts from the past to the future in a good way.

I'm so sorry.

There's probably nothing terribly profound that one can say at a time like this. Your open arms & heart are more reassuring than you know, Amy. Suicide is a baffling, shocking, disturbing act, even when an older person commits it. When a teen makes this choice, it is even more gut wrenching for survivors to process. You can be there with your daughter in the silence as she grieves. Don't pressure yourself to come up with the right words. It is such an incredibly sad thing that has happened. Maybe your daughter's sense of your own sadness gives her permission to just be sad for a while too. There's no way to explain this tragedy. Hugs to you at this difficult time.

I am so sorry. There have been several suicides at my kids' high school over the past 2 years. My best friend's brother committed suicide when he was 29, and it truly is shocking, baffling, and extremely painful. I have talked to my kids openly about suicide, and I always tell them that no problem is EVER solvable by suicide no matter how big it might seem. The really scary part is that the rational part of the brain is not fully developed in teens, and suicide is an irrational act.

Keep the lines of communication open with your daughter as she grieves and tries to make sense of this. Anger after losing someone to suicide is a normal response.

((((Amy and DD))))

So sorry your family is having to deal with this. Have your daughter write a letter to the girl's family telling them how their daughter put joy into her life. It will be appreciated by the family, and may help your daughter to open up.

My son is often suicidal, and has been for years. We have tried to get him professional help, with little or no results. The family needs to hear that they did nothing wrong and your child needs to know that she could not have prevented this, either.

My heart goes out to all affected by this tragedy.

((hugs))
We have unfortunately been through this with my DS's group of friends and don't doubt there is the potential to continue through my DDs group of friends. I also had a work friend years ago that took his own life.
I think talking while it hurts may be most healing for your daughter, I think its when your DD will have fears and thoughts and feelings closer to the surface that may fade into the background later. most importantly the realization that no problem is insurmountable no matter what.and what her friends solution cost her family and friends.
Going to the memorial and grieving with her friends will be helpful to your DD. I think keeping the communication lines open and being ready to listen to your DD at a moments notice will be important over the next few weeks.
It is a heartbreaking time for those that are left behind.It is also an angry time for the survivors-something that is quite hard to grasp while you are grieving.
Keep the lines open.

Oh, Amy...

I am so sorry your daughter has to go through this.

There's a trite saying that says "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." While it may, indeed, be trite, it is, also, very true.

The teens are the hardest. Those four years between freshman and senior, seem to last an eternity. They are filled (and fraught) with so much emotional upheaval. To so many of the kids, the future is the present and they just can't see any farther than that. In reality, it's this time that sets the tone on how we will be able to function as adults.

DH and I married late in life. We just celebrated our 10th anniversary. I can't believe how the time just flew by. When put in the context of a high school education, followed by college and grad school, those same ten year periods progress at different speeds, according to age.

One of my high school friends was drafted and sent to Viet Nam. He was a doctor's son with a bright future. Upon returning home, he took his own life. It was a hard time for all in our group. I came from a very dysfunctional and neglectful family, but I gritted my way through high school and then flew the coop. Suicide never crossed my mind and I thought that Sylvia Plath was an author to be admired for her work, not her personal life.

My one bit of advice would be that while survivor guilt should always be addressed, so should survivor pride.

That it very, very sad for everyone. Though it is uncomfortable to mention this and probably worse to read it, I thought I should mention what happened in our community when our eldest was in high school. He graduated from hs in 2001 so it has been a while but we live in Southern California and he attended a newer public hs of about 2000 kids. Over his first 3 years something like 6 kids took their own lives. It was heartbreaking. He knew most of them, though casually. It got to be contagious. I remember hearing of one more girl and the sorry details but didn't know her name, DS assumed he finally didn't know this one. When I found out the name, she was a year ahead of him, I mentioned her name to him thinking he was correct in not knowing her and he starts very matter of factly saying, "no, no, its not her, I know her, its not her, she sat ahead of me in math last year, its not her, and on and on". It was "her", we had thought he didn't know this one so we missed the funeral and he was distraught for weeks.

DS2 managed to get through hs with only one, and that was a star student that was to room in the fall with one of DS2's closest friends, he took his life a couple of days before hs graduation. It was horrible. DS3 got through with none that we are aware of.

I really watched DS1 closely for those years (and through college) - it had seemed the way to cope with difficulty for so many, I was afraid he would follow suite. If it was even just a cloudy day, that kid was not alone, he probably doesn't even realize how much effort went into keeping him "attended". Curt Cobain did noone any favors and these kids were not even "grunge" followers. It just seemed the easy way out.

My condolences to all for their loss. Hopefully, no one feels left behind and the need to take the same path.

Oh man, this is so tough. I haven't got advice, just to let your kids know you love them. Encourage them to talk. If they're like my kids, they won't come right out with their concerns, they skirt around it, so you have to be good at pulling out what it is they want to talk about. But letting your kids know you won't judge them is a big thing to them.

Hugs to you and your family.

Thank you everyone. I came home today to find all your kind words. I just read my daughter's status on Facebook and I can't stop crying.

Punamy, you are right to use the word "raw." That's exactly how it feels.

Barb, my girl mentioned the guilt last night. Her friend had IMed her a couple weeks ago, but she was too busy to chat. I have read about how common it is to feel that if only this or that...maybe someone could have made a difference. I told DD that her friend knew she loved her and understood the pressures of school life.

I can't find any information about a memorial yet. I assume there will be an obituary, but who knows. She lives about three hours from here and I know one parent is Jewish. maybe they'll sit Shiva or something. I don't know.

Stinky, I dropped everything and jumped in the car to go get her from school early last night. She was really grateful. I have also cried a bit, but I feel kind of foolish...like maybe my daughter won't understand right away how sad this is for me, too.

I think it is the bigger implication of how fragile life is, as well as a deep sense of compassion for my daughter's pain that is making me so sad. I hardly knew the girl, except that we talked about her a lot due to my daughter's concern for her.

Jana, we joke around here about how that "rational place" in the brain is not fully developed until age 22. This is the dark side of that physiological truth. We have known people who committed suicide but they have all been adults, often with long histories of mental illness or marginally treated depression. Long suffering, in other words. This girl was seemingly too young to have that much suffering. I will watch for the anger...have to go google those four stages of death, whatever that Kubler Ross thing is. I can't remember...

Holley, thank you for sharing about your son with me. My heart goes out to you. I can only begin to imagine your struggles and sadness.

My daughter never heard anything good about the parents so I think it would be hard for her to write to them. But there is a younger sister. Maybe that would be the best person to write to. I ache to think of that little girl.

I have to stop writing for now. I will respond more later. Thanks everyone for your support. I need to catch my breath....

The brother of my son's best friend committed suicide a few months ago. I had car pooled with this boy for two years and he was the most pleasant boy. He struggled in school - not so much because he had issues learning, but more from the fact he just didn't want to do the work. He was so very smart - he could have easily gotten his GED. It is rumored he didn't graduate from high school last spring although he participated in the ceremony. I think he had to go to summer school and just didn't do the work. So everyone went off to college in September and he was still at home.

I think he felt all his friends were moving on with their lives and he was just going no where. His parents tried so hard to get him motivated and set a plan for himself. There were no indications he was suicidal, but he left a will, and multiple page letters for each member of his family, so I guess he had been thinking about this for awhile. So very very sad.

The worst part is his mother found him hanging in the garage when she pushed the automatic garage door opener coming home that night. I have the most anger that he would do that to his mother in light of the fact she is the most caring and understanding person and to have her go through that by herself was just so harsh. Her husband was out of town on business and the older brother was away at college.

The saddest part was he wasn't totally gone when she found him and 15 of his closest friends came down to the hospital to see him and they were all in the room when he finally passed - they had taken him off life support. He was an organ donor so that was at least a positive in a terribly sad situation.

I am just popping in again briefly to apologize for saying something that might have implied that the girl's mother and father were not good parents. Holley, given what you shared about your son, I am particularly ashamed of my insensitivity. I meant in no way to judge the parents, nor any parents who struggle with a suicidal child or adult son or daughter. I am so sorry.

Oh that is too sad for words. These poor babies.

amysrq - I was not offended in any way. In fact, I wondered whether the parents realized that this girl was having troubles.

DS once mentioned to me that he had 'a friend' that had thought about suicide. I told him that I would have to tell the mother so she would be aware of the situation. He assured me that 'the friend' was not serious. Months later, I realized that HE was 'the friend' that was thinking about suicide. His own friends later told me - many months after we had started taking him to psychdrs. So, while every teenager may know about a troubled friend, you never know how much the family is aware of.

Such a sad situation all around.

Good morning. Another day gone by.

As it often does, this tragedy has brought out the best in people. School friends have rallied around my daughter and all the summer camp friends who knew the girl have connected through the internet, facebook, phone, etc. The bonds between those kids have always been deep. My daughter says the love they feel for each other right now is incredible. Teenagers get a bad rap sometimes, but I think they are amazing!

CB, I am so sorry you have had to deal with this more than once. We are talking as much as we can, looking at photographs. I checked in a couple times yesterday to see how she was and let her know I had a lead on funeral services.

I keep thinking that maybe we should not steep ourselves in those photographs, but DD seems to want/need that. She even put together a slideshow of her friend, set to a song she had sent my daughter. I trust that she is doing what she needs to do to heal.

I haven't seen the anger yet...will keep my eyes open. I also let her teachers and the dean of students know what has happened. Already they have responded (amazing faculty at her school!) and said they knew something was not quite right.

Parma, your "trite" saying is so true. I will share that with my girl. She spoke to me yesterday of how trivial people's day-to-day problems seemed to her. What a shocking sense of perspective she now has.

I think you are right about the present being the future to teens. In a way it is very Zen, and that is good, to live in the moment. But, every good thing has its dark side, and this is surely it.

Thank you for mentioning the concept of Survivor Pride. I am sorry you had to lose a friend to acquire this wisdom. I will bring that to my daughter and help her to mull it over.

Already, I feel pride in our family, that's for sure. We have worked for years to build the lines of communication -- I have a teenager who tells me just about everything -- and I am grateful. I feel 99% positive that this will never happen to us.

LvRG, thanks for saying the hard thing to say! Because of you, I made a call to a family last night, worried that maybe their son had not talked to his parents about losing a friend. Luckily, he had told them, but his mother was very grateful that I contacted her. I just didn't want him to suffer in silence, as boys sometimes do.

I am so sorry for your oldest and am moved to hear of your care for him through the years. Six friends is way too many. One is too many.

It is funny, what you mention about the "star student"... In the past, I have though that kids who end their own lives fit a stereotype of the unpopular kid, the one who is ostracized and bullied. (This mindset comes from years of involvement in anti-bullying programs at schools.)

My daughter's friend was very popular. She was a winning athlete and an ambitious, capable student. The girls met at a summer camp where the kids take college-level classes for seven hours a day. They call themselves nerds, but they're highly successful kids in many ways.

Pesky, thanks for the hugs and the encouragement. I know you've really done the Mom-to-Teen thing! When my daughter first befriended this girl, I was judgmental, it's true. The stories I heard just curled my hair. But DD convinced me that she really was a decent kid, just in over her head a lot of the time. I just ache for her parents...

Carole, I drive carpool, too, and those kids feel like part of my life. We have a thirty minute drive each way and I know I sometimes hear more than their own mothers do. I can't imagine how devastating your family's loss must feel.

And that poor mother. Good heavens...how does a person manage to go on? I am speechless.

Holley, thank you for being so gracious. I wish you peace and strength.

Thanks again, everyone. Reading your words and sharing my feelings here has helped me be a better Mom. I am very grateful for the support.

I'm so sorry your DD has to go through this Amy. I think you've done all the right thing as a mom: be there for her, allow her time to heal in her own way, understanding what she's going through.

Growing up I know a lot of kids w/ suicidal intention, and a couple who succeeded. I grew up in a very competitive environment with extremely high parental pressure & expectation. At times, kids feel they are very powerless over their lives, the only thing they have control over is their death.

I wish your DD peace & emotional healing. It's never easy to cope with death & loss, especially when one is so young.

How sad, I always wonder what their last hours were, what they did, were they hesitating. A cousin of mine , in her 40's, committed suicide in september;
one of the saddest funerals I've ever been to.

good luck to you and Dd .......

Oprah had a show with 2 mothers whose young teen sons committed suicide,
they were bullied at school. It's good that parents be made aware before it's too late.
holley, good luck to you also, it must be so hard to live a situation such as yours.

Thanks Mitch and Bella. It's been a tough few days for my daughter. I have been reading some of the notes on facebook that kids are writing in. It just breaks my heart. This girl was a bright light.

We are going to the funeral tomorrow. It is two hours away and I am grateful that the weather looks like it will be fine for driving. DD wasn't sure if she wanted to go, but she said she couldn't think straight. I just said we'd go and that's that. She is very happy we'll be there. Some of her camp friends are coming, too.

I go to sleep thinking about that girl and her family. I wake up thinking about them.

May you find some comfort, peace and closure, Amy. (((Hugs)))

First let me say I am SO sorry. My girlfriends daughters boyfriend committed suicide last year. They had dated for 5 years and he had become part of the family. My girlfriend felt so helpless and was both heart broken for the sweet boy but very worried about her distraught daughter.
(Survivors guilt ) She sought out a support group for her. I know we want to fix every kind of hurt for our love ones but sometimes we need to reach out for outside help. You are a GREAT MOM and your daughter is lucky to have you in this terrible situation. Hugs to you and eveyone involved.

Amy, I just happened to stroll by Home Dec Conversation for the first time in ages and saw your post.

I went through this situation with my daughter a couple of years ago when she was fifteen. A friend of hers jumped to his death after a disagreement with his father. He was apparently a bright, funny, caring young man with many friends, and my daughter was consumed with grief, even though he wasn't one of her closest friends. For over a year, she would suddenly burst into tears for no obvious reason. She was by turns moody, depressed, and angry.

One of the close friends that my daughter had at that time was also friends with this boy, and she and my daughter went together to the visitation and funeral. The two girls spoke with his parents and, at the parents' urging, each took a rose from the arrangement that covered his coffin as a remembrance. Only a few months later, this same friend attempted to take her own life.

I found myself asking why these kids felt that such a dramatic, final action was their only recourse. Were they depressed? Did they feel hopeless? Did the girl in particular in some way romanticize the drama and grief surrounding the boy's suicide and want that same sort of attention?

It was very, very difficult to get my daughter to open up and talk about how she felt about what had happened with both friends because her grief was so strong it was palpable. Then, by chance, I happened to pick up a book in the teen section at the library called Thirteen Reasons Why. If you haven't heard about it, it's a gripping (yet, in my opinion, misdirected)story about a teen who commits suicide and leaves cassette tapes for thirteen people detailing why she plans to kill herself and what part they played in her decision. When I found out that DD had also read the book, it was easy to open a dialogue with her when I mentioned to her that I thought that the book sent the wrong message to any teen who might be troubled. When she asked why, I explained that I disliked the fact that the teen in the book blamed everyone else for what she planned to do and that she didn't take responsibility for herself and her future. DD and I had a good talk at that point about not letting other individuals' actions or self-pity take over and lead us to do things from which there may be no return and no way to set things right.

There are still days that she grieves, but it's better. Still, every time we eat at a particular restaurant, she refuses to sit facing the corner table where she saw him with his family not long before he died.

I'll be thinking about you and your daughter, Amy. I know you well enough to know that you are an exceptional mother and that you will do everything in your power to ease your daughter's pain.

Thank you again for the touch, Punamy. I know you are always there, but it's good to see your name pop up here for me. :-)

Marybeth, thanks for your very kind words. I am amazed at how many lives are touched by suicide. I am sorry to hear your friend and her daughter lost someone they loved so much. I hope they are healing...

CMC, dear friend, I had to rub my eyes and slap my own face to be sure it was you! I am so happy to see you again, but so very sad that it is because we share this experience with our daughters.

I know time has passed since your daughter was 15 and I am glad to hear she is healing. Sounds like she knows how to take care of herself...knowing that the restaurant is a trigger and she chooses not to look. That sounds healthy to me.

My girl said she will never get over this, that she will remember it always. I hope if she continues to struggle that I will see the signs. I am terrified to think of other kids who may "catch the idea" as your daughter's friend did. I do hope that your daughter's friend is healing and getting the care she needs, too.

It is interesting and scary to contemplate the pull of suicide among teens. I think it could be so many things. Maybe an "I'll show them." Or maybe it is a control thing. There was a service at the girl's school today and I imagine it was compelling. For a young person who is suffering, struggling, maybe that reverence they witness in the memorial is preferable to what they are living with. I don't know. But I feel like I am holding my breath and praying that it doesn't happen again. I'm not sure when I'll be able to breathe easy again...

I am tired and sad and worried a bit about tomorrow. Seeing your use of the word "exceptional" bolsters me for what lies ahead. I can't thank you enough for that. I will think of you two as well, as we all wander down this unknown path. Take care.

Amy, I once read this definition of suicide: "Suicide is what happens when pain exceeds one's ability to deal with that pain."

I actually attempted suicide when I was 17 and was almost successful. I can remember waking up in the ICU with charcoal on my teeth (not attractive). I have an introverted personality generally and was raised to not be a burden on others and at that point in my life I did not know how to differentiate when the time was to seek help. It also did not help that I had seen my mother attempt it once to but she lied to the paramedics. Teach your daughter coping mechanisms and also perspective, that this is only a time, a phase in life and that there is something to move on to. It will not solve all problems, I still am prone to depression but I know that I still have a job to do with my children, which gives me a focus.

I wish you the best, being a parent is hard.

Tishtoshnm, I think that is a very good definition. I am glad that you were unsuccessful in your attempt, and that life is better now.

That definition points out that support systems are so important in each of our abilities to weather the challenges of life. A hallmark of the teen years is feeling that what they are feeling is unique, that no one has ever felt what they are going through, and as such, cannot understand their pain. And their pain is real because the demands of that stage of life are great: changing bodies, changing expectations, figuring out who they are and what they stand for, peer pressures, academic pressures, separating from parents......And their brain development in terms of judgement and decision making is not mature.

It makes it understandable that gay teens are four times as likely to attempt suicide as their straight peers are. They often don't have the necessary support systems to help them weather the teenage storm. As the mother of a son who is gay, I have had more than a few moments of worry about this.

Amy, you are a sensitive, intelligent, and empathic mom. Your daughter is very lucky to have you as her mother. I hope the memorial service helps your daughter connect to others who share her grief, and offers a constructive way to help her express it.

tishtoshhnm,
Just think if you were successful in your attempt all of us here would have been deprived of your thoughts and feelings as well as decor help. If only a peek at the future was possible for those at their bleakest point.
Amy- I think you are in MD? Just in case- Sheppard Pratt has excellent grief counselors- I went to one when my DM was killed by drunk driver in 1995. When a death is violent or by suicide, there are many many feelings that come into play that get entwined with grief and need sorting out.
May you and your daughter find a bit of peace at the memorial today. Remember, sometimes if all we can manage to do is breathe in and out, it is enough of an accomplishment for that day.

Amy - I'm so sorry. This is such a hard time for your family. When my oldest was a Sr in High School, a friend of his committed suicide. It's so hard to understand and make sense of.

I hope your daughter does write a note to her friend's parents, I know it would be appreciated. 6 months ago my oldest brother took his own life without any warning or history of depression or medical problems, just blindsided everyone. I feel very badly for my parents right now at this time of year. They recently received a nice note and appreciated how someone they hadn't spoken with in years had reached out to them.

Teens, without life experience behind them, can have a tough time dealing with what is thrown at them. Sounds like you have a great relationship with your daughter. That means a lot and will be a huge help to her.

A few years back, a friend of our eldest son, committed suicide. We didn't know the young man but the effect that it had on our son, was enough for us to grieve along with him. I was not able to attend the funeral but my husband did. Many of my son's friends could not believe that his dad was there and were comforted by that in some way. Your daughter will never forget her friend but also will never forget that you were there for her.

Amy, just saw this thread (I was out of town last week). What a devastating thing. I can only imagine what your DD was telling herself about having said she was too busy to talk. The teen years seem like a psychological obstacle course kids have to go through to get to the other side, and not all kids make it, which is nausea and vertigo inducing when I let myself think about it as a mother.

And even beyond the highly dramatic teen years, it's still difficult...I remember when I was breaking up with a longtime boyfriend and even though *I* was the one doing the breaking up, I thought "I have no idea who I am without him" and thought there was no future for me, whatever 'me' was. I thought part of "me" was being X's girlfriend, and without that part I was nothing (we'd been together since high school, and this was last year of grad school--in theatre, btw...). A friend, also in theatre, told me that there is simply no logical reason to assume the suffering of now is what will be happening forever, that is *always* a way out to a new start, even if it means the Peace Corps, or Ditching It All and traveling, or whatever. His statement was so straightforward and undramatically rational it struck me right between the eyes and knocked a new perspective into my brain. (Almost like the psychologist seeing the Australian woman who has fear of flying in the old SNL skit, not to reduce it to comedy or anything, but the feeling was similar.) As you can tell, I've never forgotten what he said and it still serves as a kind of touchstone for me to judge the permanence of any negative situation and get a realistic hold on it even through any possible drama. Maybe it doesn't make much sense hearing it second hand, but it helped me and still does, so I thought I'd share it. It relates to parma's "permanent solution to a temporary problem" line. Teens and young adults have no real experience of the passing nature of everything in our lives...all the power to make big life-affecting actions, but no perspective.

Anyway, I notice you haven't posted for several days now, I guess since the funeral...when you are inclined, please post how you all are doing now. I'll be thinking of you and DD.

If I said something that struck you wrong, I apologize. I really didn't intend anything negative in any way. Still thinking of you and DD...

Fly...no no!! Please. I have had no "juice" to write this week. You said nothing wrong. Every day, I think I need to write back to people here. But I have been using everything I have here on the ground. Please don't think you've been anything but just right. I will reply again when I can. I'm sorry...

I just wanted to say I'm so sorry this happened.

Ah Amy, I'm relieved I wasn't adding to your burden. One always worries when one has tried to say something comforting, that it may not be what the person needed to hear, or it makes things worse...no apologies necessary at all--I'll just be sending energy over east.

Ah Amy, I'm relieved I wasn't adding to your burden. One always worries when one has tried to say something comforting, that it may not be what the person needed to hear, or it makes things worse...no apologies necessary at all--I'll just be sending energy over east.

See? I'm double-relieved. ugh-Sorry for the double post!

Okay, I am back. I apologize to those of you to whom I have not responded. Especially you tishtosh for sharing your story with me. I am very touched that you would write. Thank you. And thank you again to everyone who has been either writing or just keeping me in their thoughts. I didn't realize when I first started writing here how much stuff this would bring up for me.

I don't really want to get back into it in a deep way, but I will just skim the surface and say that we did go to the funeral and it was a very good thing to do. The parents greeted each of the many hundred people who attended the service. There was a session held by social workers in the sanctuary after the service where the kids (at least 200!) had a chance to share stories and have a laugh about the crazy things this girl did. I have learned so much about her in the last two weeks....she was truly an amazing person, a bright star that just burned herself out too soon.

This event has changed my daughter's world view. She has lost her innocence in a way. We feel vulnerable in a way we didn't before. The girl's death has brought up feelings of loss, fear for the future, sadness about things long gone. I have been strong for my daughter, spending hours talking and comforting, but sometimes when I am alone, I have these moments when I just burst out crying for no obvious reason. It has been emotionally exhausting.

On top of all this, my daughter seems to be in the process of breaking up with her first boyfriend this week. They had felt very much in love, as young people do, and she is suffering terribly. There have been many late nights of tears and talking....last week about her friend, this week about the boy and her life and future and love. Needless to say, I am just drained.

Through it all, I am always conscious of how blessed we are that she will come to me. I am so glad she is not going it alone and she is consciously aware of how lucky she is to have me there to talk to until the wee hours. Silver lining...but oh, I need sleep...

Thanks for listening.