can't stess enough that you should shop the installer and not the boiler. there are many mfgs that make high efficiency gas wall hung boilers. use the one the installer recommends.

Regarding parts and service, that will be dependent on your area. Why don't you pick up the yellow pages and call a few places and ask if they can do an emergency service on XX boiler.

I'm not sure how this installer can equate parts availability w/ reliability of a given boiler? or maybe i don't understand the post ("Parts might be available but a couple of service calls would wipe out a lot of efficiency or reliability savings.").

Thanks Sayde,

You should know that Weil McLain and Triangle Tube both use the same gas valve and control/ignition panel. The technologies of both boilers are no doubt European, and itÂs no secret. The big difference is that while both boilers technology is about 15 years old, 10 in the US, the biggest difference it the heat exchanger design

The W/M uses an aluminum block which is restrictive, thus the high head circulator that is required with it. The Triangle Tube is a fire tube stainless steel circulator with a low head loss, resulting in a much smaller circ required.

The biggest difference between the two is the heat exchanger. While SS has been used in the heat exchanger market for other products such as steam, marine, navy, swimming pools and so on, Aluminum however has not. In fact ask the W/M guy about all the recalls concerning plugs that loosened under higher temps and rotting block assemblies because of active condensate. This combined with the requirement to maintain perfect PH in the aluminum boilers, make the SS the better choice. You can search the internet and find that all I am saying is true. In fact many boiler experts are starting to agree that the aluminum boiler may have a 15 year life. Not worth the money I would spend.

Regarding parts, itÂs not Triangle Tube or Weil McLain for that matter that would be the problem; itÂs the stocking wholesale distributor or the dealer that is responsible. The parts are readily available for those who wish to stock. Find a good installing dealer familiar with a product and he will know where to get parts.

As a former distributor exec, we had TT as well as 4 other boiler lines and TT was the least of our concern with parts availability or failure for that matter. TT makes a suitcase full of parts (about 6 parts total) for service on all 5 of their models and can be a great tool for a dealer for a minimal cost.

As always, the product is as only good as the installer. The TT units are factory fired and tested (I have witnessed, both in NJ and Belgium) however a bad install that doesnÂt set the burner, improperly pipes or miswires causing a failure and parts needed; whoÂs to blame there?

Thanks so much z1700. I really appreciate the information and it comes just in time as we are meeting with a contractor on Wednesday.

In the meantime I got the name of the local distributor from TT and will contact them to understand their role in working with the local contractors, just so be sure there is a good parts base here.

I wonder if you would please respond to one other concern. I have been reading that a large part of the energy savings on the high efficiency systems is realized because the water circulates at a "lower" temperature, say about 140. We live in a 1927 house with large CI radiators. I have read that these large radiators require the water to be heated at a higher temperature, say about 180. Thus there is a fundamental mismatch between the optimum water temperature level for the new systems and the old radiators. Because of this, much of the projected savings would not be captured in our house. Can you please respond to this? Please set me straight!

I can't thank you enough for all the information.

Good Luck
DonÂt get me wrong, Weil McLain makes fine products.
20 years ago my dad put a W/M HE boiler in. At the time it was the "second best" boiler they had in their lineup. The first was the VHE. I didnÂt like it and advised him against it. It was a little more money and about 2% more efficient but it was borderline a condensing product and that didnÂt appeal to me with a cast iron product. My dad took my advice, put the HE in, the VHE had a recall years later sticking people with labor replacement costs and after 20 years my dad has only replaced 2 circulators and 3 igniters, thatÂs it.

To address your temp concern with radiators, you are a prime candidate for outdoor reset with a high efficiency boiler. Outdoor reset varies the water delivery temp based on outdoor temp. Your radiator may very well need 180 degree water supplied to it on a 0 degree day outside. However the other 95% of the time it does not. As you may know, after cast iron heats up it continues to supply heat to the room via, convection and radiation. If it was a milder day like 50 degrees out and the radiator was supplied with 180 degree water it is feasible that the radiator will be over heated and thus over heat the room beyond temp desired before radiator can cool itself, resulting in a overheated room and big temp swings before heat comes back on resulting in comfort issues. Now, with large mass systems, it is highly likely that your old system may not have gotten that hot either. The key is to deliver the water temp required to heat the space and no more, thatÂs called the design temp difference. Like a car, you can get to the stop light by putting your foot to the floor and then on the brake hard or, drive smoothly and with enough petal to get there efficiently and brake easily when arriving. Which scenario is harder on equipment, and used more gas?

TodayÂs high efficiency boilers love cooler temps, love to receive cold water return temps which results in higher efficiencies. Mostly todays systems run 60% of the time in the mid temp ranges, why overheat the water more than what is needed to meet your comfort requirements?

Thanks again.
We fired up our boiler to understand its temps. It seems to keep the water between 110 and 140. Which seems right because the radiators get warm, never hot. So it works as you said it does -- like a large mass system.

I'm not sure what we're going to do yet, but I feel much more informed thanks to your posts.

Buderus is the largest boiler manufacturer in the world and uses a aluminum heat exchanger for all of its ModCon boilers sold here in the us. Makes you wonder.

I have installed Weil McClain and others, both stainless and aluminum. Smart contractors always check the pH on all boilers and smart customers call for service and let them do it.

I agree with one point however, you should shop the contractor and take his advice.

Here is a link that might be useful: boilers for smart people

We have just had our Triangle Tube model Solo 399 installed last week. It has the outdoor reset and we will fire it up this week. As we live in Toronto, Canada, we have a fair number of below zero days in January and February. (That would be zero Celsius, not zero Farenheit).Our below zero Farenheit weather is late December and early January if we are unlucky. We have the old cast iron rads in eight large apartments and three and one half floors above ground level. I will keep you all posted on gas savings over the next few months. We have all our last year's bills for gas on hand from our old 1919 steel boiler. I recollet the highest bill coming in at about $2100.00 one month! Aside from the gas price savings,adequate heating for our two top floor apartments,always chilliest, will be something we are watching. We did not install TRV's this year but may next year. I should add that we wanted a Viessman boiler but the premium was another $11,000.00 on top of the astronomical price we paid for a Triangle Tube. We just couldn't afford the Viessman.

Humewood - I would be very intested in talking to you about your experience with Traingular Tube. I am struggling with the decision on whether to go with a traditional boiler or a new mod/cond boiler - TT is my first pick for mod/cond. I am heating a 7 apartment building and my heating bills alone are about $7000/year for a 4000 sq ft building. The estimate on the traditional boiler is 10k cheaper. I am really interested to learn what your boiler water temp is on a 0 degree F day. Do you still need to heat your boiler water to 180 on a 0 degree day or do your large radiators allow you use much cooler water, say 140.

Having installed and warrantied dozens of triangle tube boilers and many weil McLain ultras here's my take. Aluminum is not appropriate for a condensing boiler heat exchanger as the condensate eats the aluminum. The more efficient your system design and install the more condensate you will make. The higher temps you run at will produce less condensate. The systems I have installed are high mass in floor heat and run at low temps with lots of condensate produced. Every wm ultra I have installed has had it's heat exchanger fail with a hole my thumb fits in. Flame and combustion products are coming out of hole, not ok. I have had very bad issues with triangle tube as well with heater hangers with defective studs causing the top plate to leak combustion products and flames. Triangle tube handled this very poorly. The would help if you contacted them but were not proactive with stuff like sending as postcard to registered installers or posting a notice at supply house like " if you have tt399s out there you should check for this issue." I had 13 of 16 tt399 installed in a year and a half fail, a dismal record. Weil McLain was much better with warranty coverage and triangle tube tried to get out of as much as possible. 35 years as a plumbing and heating contractor, I put Lochinvar in my house and just turned down a large project because they insisted on TT boilers.