Help Needed for Furnace/AC Purchase

13 years ago

I live in Raleigh/Durham area North Carolina and this is my first house (built early 1950Âs, brick, one floor with walk up unfinished attic and a basement c. 1,300 sq ft., 8 supplies). I am trying to buy my first replacement ac/furnace. Both are old and the 1970Âs installed ac unfortunately has not made it another summer. The old ac is 3 ton and the furnace I am told was oversized (120,000 btu) and appropriate for a much larger house. I have no complaints about heating/cooling comfort of old system.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback on the following proposals I received from reputable companies particularly about good pairing of ac/furnace/coil, model reliability, cost and any suggestions about better alternatives to look at. I probably will not be able to use the tax credit on my 2010 tax return. Top of the line system is cost prohibitive for me but I still want a reasonably decent system.

All include installation/piping/direct venting replacing chimney output, using current duct work.

Option #1 Lennox (I preferred this contractor)

Cost: $5,472

Eligible for $1,500 tax credit

Air Conditioner 3 ton - 14 SEER - 12.70 EER - Lennox Elite series AC XC14-036

Cool Cap: 33,400 Btu

Upflow Evaporator Coil Â CX34-38B

Gas Furnace - 2-stage - G61MP-36B-071 - 95.0% efficiency

Heat CAP: 43,000 / 62,000 Btu

5-1-1 programmable thermostat - Honeywell 6000

Labor: 1 year

10 years: compressor

10 years: heating parts

5 years: indoor coil

10 years: outdoor coil

10 years: cooling parts

Limited lifetime: heat exchanger

Option #2 Carrier (only given model #Âs )

Cost: $6,234.00

Mail in Rebate: $75

Air Conditioner 3 ton SEER 15 Â 24ABC636 (I think this is a base series which worries me)

Gas Furnace Â 2 variable speed - 58MEC100-16 - 92.3% efficiency

Unspecified thermostat

Option #3 Carrier- (Same furnace as #1 but higher SEER AC)

Cost: $7,234.00

Mail in Rebate: $$250

Eligible for $1,500 tax credit

Air Conditioner 3 ton SEER 16 Â 24APA536

Gas Furnace Â 2 variable speed - 58MEC100-16 - 92.3% efficiency

Unspecified thermostat

For both Option #1 and Option #2:

Labor: 1 year

10 years: compressor

10 years: parts

10 years: indoor coil

Limited lifetime: heat exchanger

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (7)

neohioheatpump
13 years ago
Quote number 1 seems to be a pretty decent price. I would definetly consider it.

You should ask if they can upgrade from A/C to a heatpump. It really shouldn't cost much more money. If you did that you would have dual-fuel. It would probably save you money over the long-haul. It would give you flexibility incase gas spikes again. Your climate could probably be served pretty well by just a heatpump alone.

FYI: Your probably a little oversized with 3-ton and only 1300 sq. feet. 2.5 tons should be plenty for your size place.
tigerdunes
13 years ago
acaf

I would want to see in writing a properly performed load calc.

and I would want a good two stg thermostat for that two stg furnace-definitely not what Lennox dealer quoted. probably HW 8321 would be fine.

while I do like HPs for your area/climate, I would not recommend one for a home your age unless it had good insulation properties.

IMO
Related Discussions
please help - need to understand furnace/ac quote
Q
Comments (4)
How was the system sizing determined? Was there a heat gain/loss calculation done? Post the model numbers of the furnace, coil, and condenser. The model numbers should be on the quote. If not, call them back and get all of the model numbers in writing. What are your electric rates (cents per kw-hr)? What are your gas rates ($ per therm)? Georgia would be a good climate for a heat pump. You may be quoted a heat pump but need model numbers to confirm. What are your winter temperatures like?
...See More
Need new AC, How do I Match With 8 yr old Furnace
Q
Comments (1)
The evaporator coil didn't necessarily have to be replaced with the furnace - maybe they wanted to make it easier for themselves (at your expense) to have a coil mount flush on top of the new furnace. You'll want to replace the evaporator coil with one designed for R-410A refrigerant and one that is an acceptable match to whichever brand equipment you chose to have installed. Carrier makes good equipment, and most brands are comparable these days. So you could have a Carrier coil over the furnace - the furnace is just responsible for moving adequate airflow over the coil (which should be adjusted when the new a/c is installed). Your C26-41 Lennox coil indicates a 3 ton nominal capacity rating, so I'm guessing that may be the size of your outdoor unit. Yes, 100k and 3 tons sounds like quite a bit for the space you're trying to heat and cool.
...See More
Help choosing A/C & Furnace Replacement Quotes
Q
Comments (10)
I was able to get info on the existing furnace from the data plate. It's a Carrier Model 58ss140-BC, Series 110, 167,000 BTU. The data plate said the blower is "157", whatever that means. The motor spec was 1/2 hp. Mfg date 1982. That's all I found on the furnace. I found next to nothing on the a/c. The data plates outside are gone. I could see where it was but there was just rivets. A single, long rectangular unit outside. Like I said, vintage 1974, from the builder. According to my mother, the quoting contractors guessed that the system was 4 or 5 tons. I don't know anything about who said what. Turns out the Lennox/Costco guy was the only one to quote an upgraded unit. He also quoted: Option #3B. $9,185. Platinum Package. A/C XC17-048 and 2 stage gas furnace SL280UH135 with variable speed and I-Comfort Communicating Controller. I'm having a hard time getting her to look at the Am Std quote because they didn't quote her an upgraded unit option and their basic units were only about $1,000 cheaper than the upgraded Lennox units. ($9,145 vs $7,945). About the house, I tried to describe it above. Built 1974. 3200 sq ft. and two stories. Attached garage. Full sun exposure--the property is not shaded. Brick exterior with not a whole heck of a lot of insulation. (I remember my parents being mad that the builder gipped them on the insulation.) High quality house though, expensive neighborhood. Stick framed over a full basement. Attic with pitched shingle roof. Colonial. Original single pane wood windows with storms windows, maybe a tad drafty. After being widowed with 4 kids in 1978, she never had the money to remodel anything and everything is pretty much 1974. Anything else you want to know about the house, please ask. This is all I could think of.
...See More
Help with AC and Furnace Problem and Quotes
Q
Comments (4)
I am still confused! But, asked another AC guy today and he thinks I could get away with just a new AC unit (new pipes etc) with the old furnace and when the furnace goes replace with compatible unit to the AC. Money is a big issue, while I would love to replace everything and not have anymore headaches for ten years or so--I can't afford it. I might just roll the dice on a new AC only. I live in Hillsborough, NJ and did have a fairly impressive Carrier guy here, but he wanted to change some of my duct work($1800 additional) to add more returns for maximum comfort but no one else seems to think that is an issue at all. Again, just feeling like everyone is trying to sell me all the extra stuff I don't need! What I need is an AC unit for next suumer at a great price with great company, warranty and reliability. Not sure that being impressed with the sales guy guarantees a great install. Not wowed with what I am finding these days!!! Latest quotes for a 5 ton AC unit are Lennox elite series 14 seer at $8211 full install(new pipes etc)with warranty of 5 yr parts, 1 yr labor, 10 yr compressor. Also Lennox Merit series 13 seer(13axc)for $5887 complete with same install and warranty. NEXT...Different company quotes with different warranty...10 yr parts, 5 yrs labor, 10 yrs compressor with following equipment: AC only Carrier 13 seer #24ABB360A003/ with coil CNPVP6024ATA new metal work complete is $6010 or AC only Carrier 16 seer #24ACC660A003 with coil CNPVP6024ATA new metal work complete is $6624. Both of these companies seems ok, still need references etc, also the price includes permit which our township requires. The prices are full install. Again, HELP is needed with all of this. Thanks!
...See More
acaf304
Original Author
13 years ago
Thank you so much for your responses!
I am also concerned about the 3 ton size. Two contractors recommended 3 tons and 2 recommended 3. I thought maybe Lennox did not make this model in the 2.5 ton size. The Lennox contractor said he would come back and do a load calculation.
Thank you for the better thermostat suggestion. Are you satisfied with coil choice? I thought I would also see how much more the 2 stage with variable speed motor would cost and would consider especially if you thought this would be an advisable upgrade. I also wonder if the furnace is on the large side like the ac.
I only use gas for heating and have been paying c. $700 for the heating season. I donÂt think my home has good insulation properties so the heat pump may not be best option. I may add more to minimum insulation that is in the attic but have no plans to replace old windows.
Again thank you for your feedback.
creek_side
13 years ago
Have an energy audit done first and follow up on its recommendations. You will likely need to upgrade some insulation and seal some air leaks.

Have a Manual J done after the upgrades. You should be able to get by with a much smaller system that will cost significantly less to operate than what you are paying now.

Some of this can be done using tax credits. An up front investment in improving the house's thermal envelope will pay real dividends in the long run.
acaf304
Original Author
13 years ago
I received the following load calculation results from the Lennox contractor(Option #1 in my first posting). He said he would get me a copy of his report.

Cooling Load @ Outdoor Temp 95 Indoor Temp 75 Zone 1: 28,646 btuh
Heating Load @ Outdoor Temp.10 Indoor Temp 70 Zone 1 37,339 btuh

He is sticking with his original recommendation for $5,472.00:
Lennox G61MP-36B-071 2- stage furnace
XC14-036 air conditioner
CX34-38B upflow evaporator coil
Honeywell 6000 thermostat (note 2-stage furnace without variable speed)

Does this load calculation match up with his ac/furnace choices?
To me 2.5 ton ac seems better fit for c. 1,300 sq feet. home even without good insulation. Not sure about furnace size.
He insists thermostat works well with this configuration.
Does this additional information put me anywhere near the right track?
Your advice is very much appreciated!
david_cary
13 years ago
My only issue on your load calcs is how do you estimate air infiltration on a 1950s house. Did he do a blower door test - not likely. I mean this number is anybody's guess. Then - do you have leaky ducts - most likely yes. How much?

Did your 3 ton work well - ie did it cool enough on hot days?

If your old 3 ton cooled the house well and even shut off in the afternoon often, then I might go to 2.5 tons. I think this would be a better indicator than a load calc with all the air infiltration/duct leakage variables.

FYI - $700 heating bill here (this winter) for 4000 sq feet. Buy $$ standards, you might need more heating than that load calc would call for. I have 7 tons (sized for expansion, 10+ ft ceilings, and lots of windows).
connellalexander_yahoo_com
13 years ago
GUARANTEED LOAN AVAILABLE HERE:
This is CONNELL ALEXANDER WORLDWIDE LENDING COMPANY established for the purpose of assisting individuals or companies who are interested in a loan or investment. We offer both educational loans, mobile home loans, personal loans, agricultural loans,real estate loans, construction loans, purchase loans,startup funds, debt free loans e.t.c to anyone who may be interested in it. We help solve your financially problem within a short period. If you need a loan of anytype,do contact us and we will be there to assist you with the loan you need.
connellalexander@yahoo.com

Help Needed for Furnace/AC Purchase

Comments (7)

neohioheatpump

tigerdunes

Related Discussions

acaf304
Original Author

creek_side

acaf304
Original Author

david_cary

connellalexander_yahoo_com

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Help Needed for Furnace/AC Purchase

Comments (7)

neohioheatpump

tigerdunes

Related Discussions

acaf304Original Author

creek_side

acaf304Original Author

david_cary

connellalexander_yahoo_com

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

acaf304
Original Author

acaf304
Original Author