solving the HVAC location puzzle
jesterspal
11 years ago
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ionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoenergy_rater_la
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoRelated Discussions
New Construction - HVAC Dilemma
Comments (7)I would find out who the subcontractor is, go to their office and talk with the owner/sales staff about options. If you are building a house that size and installing a builder grade system, I think you will be unhappy. When you build a large home that probably have nice finishing touches in it, people geherally forget the most important item-- the heating/cooling system. They tend to spend the least amount of thought on it and it is the one thing they utilize every day. The contractor will also give you options and pricing. Your electricity/gas prices look ideal for a dual fuel heat pump. I don't know if your quoted electricity/gas rates include taxes, delivery charges, etc. However, it still looks pretty good. I would suggest a couple of things for your building envelope. Make sure you windows are at least lowE2, preferably with argon gas. You have a lot of them and heat loss/heat gain is a major consideration. Not all windows are created equal. Secondly, I would go no less than R-38 in the top floor ceiling and preferably to R-50. Your upstairs will normally get 4-5 degrees warmer than downstairs. You might also look into radiant barrier for the upstairs on the deck sheeting during the install. That will cut down your heat gain in the summer and make a noticeable difference in your home's comfort. AT least R-19 in all exterior walls and R-30 under the main floor crawl space. You los a lot of heat through the floor during the heating season-- more than folk realize. YOu'll need to have these final numbers -- whatever they are-- for the HVAC person to do a proper load calc so he can size the heating and duct system properly. Don't let the contractor snow you. You have rights as you are the homeowner. I am assuming this is a custom home and not a tract plan. If you are pying the bill, you have rights. If it is a custom and there has been an allowance set for the heating system, you will likely need to pay additional money to get a better than builder grade system. My builder was supposed to install energy star rated heating equipment in mine and somehow it got changed. it was inadvertent but I got it changed back. Cost me a little to upgrade my HP to what I wanted but it has paid off, I just wish I had known a little more about heating systems and options before we went into the process. I've since upgraded my insulation to R-57 in the attic and installed radiant barrier. This spring/summer I will upgrade the crawl space insulation to R-43 by adding styrene rigid board to seal my R-30 insulation. I will have a nice tight envelope. You are in the best position to get what you want. It's always easier to do it right the first time than to go back and fix something. And... not all HVAC contractors are equal. Check on the HVAC company reputation with the better business bureau, etc. Remember, cheapest may be better for the contractor, but may not be better for you. Then again, you may find someone with better pricing who will also do it the right way. My three cents worth (inflation)....See MoreGeothermal HVAC in Zone 2?
Comments (4)I would suggest telling the builder to remove the cost of HVAC from the contract, that you will take charge of that aspect of the project and coordinate with him its installation. As for the ‘HVAC guy’ that told you, “1-well per ton, at 250ft/ton”, this would likely give you a VERY efficient geothermal system. It ‘sounds’ like more loop than what’s usually required but I don’t know your geology. This could be correct; it certainly sounds conservative which is OK in my book. Best efficiency with ‘Liquid-to-Air’ geothermal heat pumps (liquid in the ground loops) occurs when boreholes are drilled one-ton per borehole, separated by at least 15-feet, connected in parallel, headers installed WITHIN the mechanical room, WITH the ability to VISUALLY measure the flow in EACH borehole! This will give you the capability to easily and quickly monitor, troubleshoot and balance the entire ground heat exchanger loop network. Money saved at this level by not doing this properly and taking shortcuts might become a VERY expensive curse later on should problems arise. You will get this money back when you cash out, sell your home and have an inspection done - if they know what they’re looking at! A mechanical room should be built in the basement or the lowest level, preferably at the center of the house; an ERV is essential. The mechanical room must also contain an ‘AS Built Book’ that documents the complete design, specs, startup procedures and detailed startup measurements, as well as all the details and detailed location of the buried ground loops. You should also have a paper copy and digital copy of this document kept elsewhere in your home as well as at least one paper and one digital copy off site for safekeeping. Included detailed pics of EVERYTHING! This like having an electro-cardiogram of your heart done when you are well so that you have ‘baseline’ data to compare to as a reference when/if things go wrong and to also prove that they were ‘right’ at time of installation. It also affords you the ability to hire any knowledgeable tech to come on-site and quickly understand what’s going on. This is important if your installer goes out of business or if you have a falling out. It’s also vital for recouping the maximum value of your system at time of resale. Stay away from attics for mechanical systems! Find the right company to do the foam insulation; giving it the appropriate amount of time to cure and outgas and you should be fine. Check references and accreditations, this applies to the geothermal contractor and duct designer/installer as well. One-way to further ensure the right size geothermal unit(s) would be to install variable speed unit(s), both fan coil and compressor. That way there’s some ‘play’ in the system and increased efficiency as well. The geo units will self adjust to whatever duct system they’re hooked up to, within reason and throttle down if there is too much capacity while still giving you proper dehumidification. Too small a system and you’re out of luck without expensive, extensive mods. Look into zoning - properly designed, installed and controlled! The thing to ‘watch out for’ with ‘fully variable’ systems are flow centers or pumps, if you will, that are also variable speed, that they do NOT throttle down to a level where ‘turbulent flow’ in the ground loops changes to ‘laminar flow’. Without delivering a seminar on ‘flow’ in this forum, suffice it to say that you will need to have a discussion with your installer on ‘Reynolds Numbers’ and let them educated you and give you the seminar. If they seem clueless or flippant on this subject then you’re dealing with the wrong people that have not been properly trained. Copy & Paste: http://www.waterfurnace.com/literature/7series/BR2700AN.pdf IMPO SR Here is a link that might be useful: International Ground Source Heat Pump Association at Oklahoma State University...See MoreSeeking help on HVAC/insulation investment choices
Comments (4)I'd invest in the duct sealing (including returns) of both systems. see what that does as for comfort & air flow. this is one investment that quickly pays for itself. paint on mastics or true mastic tapes are the only sealants I'd allow. there is nothing wrong with ductboard & it is not an inferior product. a well installed, correctly designed & sized duct board plenum will perform just as well as a sheet metal plenum. I have to admit...statements like 'inferior product' send up a red flag for me. IMO it is a short way to say.."I'll charge/make more to tear it out & replace it" that he wants to increase size of the upstairs system is the second red flag. bigger isn't better. take a look at it yourself. is the ductboard plenum larger in size at the equipment & reduced down towards the end of the plenum? is it in good shape? are the flex runs straight? are the ducts well sealed at the plenum? take a couple of pics & post. we can't see as well as you can...but we will look. now if there are comfort issues & obvious problems with the supply plenum & ducts...then you'd have reason to think about re-design. but often comfort issues are solved by installing manual dampers so that you can adjust air flow and by increasing size of a duct or two. crimped or compressed ducts reduce air flow.. but are usually easily fixed or replaced. 30% duct leakage isn't uncommon at all. it is more the norm than the exception. so if you invest 2K in duct sealing & then still feel the need to replace equipment.. but I'd like to see pics before going further. before adding insulation, complete all work in attic including duct change outs. sealing or modifications. any equipement change outs should be completed. then..and only then..does insulation install need to be consitered. adding insulation prior to any work will make it more difficult to work, insulation will be compressed as work is done, and any insulation moved to access work may not be properly replaced. before insulation though...air seal. supply grills inside the house and bath vent fans cover oversized cuts in ceilings. recessed lights that aren't air tight allow leakage from attic into house. accesses into attic will also leak, and should be built up around access to hold insulation in place as access is opened. blower door test should have provided list of areas of infiltration. what were the blower door numbers (example 5000 cfm @ 50 pa)?? was duct leakage test done at same time? what plan of action/information/advice did auditor give you @ time of audit? I'd suspect that load calc wasn't done and equipment is oversized. in my area we ususally put gas heat on first floor and heat pump on second floor. heat will rise in winter to suppliment heat pump heat on second floor. do you have a prefrence as to gas or heat pump? is one cheaper/higher than the other to make choice for you? I'm glad to see that you are willing to invest some time in determining what is best for your house. rather than just throwing $$ at newer bigger equipment it makes sense to evaluate what you have. take time to make decisions that will provide comfort and savings. best of luck....See MoreHVAC odor ..need help ASAP
Comments (23)UV lights don't work. The volume of air passing through is too great. I suggest adding a GPS system to the unit, Global Plasma Solutions. We've done this to three of our homes HVAC systems. It takes care of any musty, moldy odors and mold in your house. Also, check the humidity in your house. You may need a dehumidifier. If humidity is too high, mold can grow. It should be below 40%. Here is another theory that needs to be eliminated. If the smell is a dirty sock smell, it can be an oil leak burning off. Is there any component of the system that uses oil or hydraulic fluid? Both smell like dirty socks and the fumes are quite dangerous to your health....See Morejesterspal
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agojesterspal
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agomike_home
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoElmer J Fudd
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoenergy_rater_la
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoElmer J Fudd
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agodavid_cary
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agobusboy
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoElmer J Fudd
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agojesterspal
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agodavid_cary
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agojesterspal
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoenergy_rater_la
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agojesterspal
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agodavid_cary
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoharlemhvacguy
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agojesterspal
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agojesterspal
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoenergy_rater_la
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agojesterspal
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoharlemhvacguy
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoenergy_rater_la
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agodavid_cary
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoenergy_rater_la
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agojesterspal
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoenergy_rater_la
11 years agolast modified: 9 years agoionized_gw
11 years agolast modified: 9 years ago
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