Obviously you are oversized on heating.

You have entirely two different levels of quotes with the Trane much better of the two systems.

I would want to see a load calculation mainly for heating.

The problem with temperature consistency between floors is quite common on two story homes. You have adequate returns on both floors? I would point these issues out to dealer for suggestions to improve. Do you have damper control on supply trunk lines to each floor? Sometimes air balancing can improve the problem. Otherwise I might consider a zoning control. Two separate systems would be preferred but if course that comes with a price.

I would want a pleated filter media cabinet.

IMO

Thanks for the reply.

Duct system is done well according to the dealers. It can handle 7 ton. And there are damper controls on the supply lines to the both sides of the first floor, as the system is sitting in the middle. There are sufficient returns and also supply and returns are balanced in all the rooms

We want to see if the properly sized and installed HVAC alleviates the problems before going to zoning.

We just got one more comprehensive Trane Proposal.

Trane XL16i 4TTX8048E1000A 17.25 SEER
Trane XV 95 TUH2C100A9V4VA
Trane Coil 4TXCD063BC3HCA
TCON 802 Thermostat
Trane Perfect fit air filter
New Copper Line set
10 year parts, 12 year compressor, limited life time heat exchanger warranty. 2 year warranty on workmanship and maintenance for the first year - $8663

Update to comfort link Thermostat : $350

Appreciate any comments on the proposal. Obviously the Furnace quoted is 100K BTU.

We would like to hear about the opinions on the sizing of the furnace, As our home is appropriately insulated for its age. Obviously we are going to ask them for load calculations and they will be available after we sign.

Also we are wondering about proper ways to discharge the condensate pump. The above quote involves draining in to the sump pump. Does that force sump pump to turn on more often? Appreciate any info on this.

Thanks in advance

Much better pricing.

Wrong thermostat quoted, the HW VP IAQ in first Trane quote would be preferred. This thermostat can control your humidifier as well.

5943129 Active Systems XL18I TRANE 4TTX8048A1 4TXCD063BC3 *UH2C100A9V4 49000 13.00 17.25 1 RCU-A-CB 344 Yes

Qualifies for small Fed Tax Credit as well.

Where will furnace be located? My condensate pump dumps through an external wall in my crawl space. Never a big deal.

Don't kid yourself. If you have temperature and comfort differences between the floors, don't expect a new system even with var speed blower to make a significant improvement.

IMO

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Thu, Jun 13, 13 at 12:23

Appreciate your opinion.

Will enquire about thermostat that can control the humidifier.

Also existing humidifier is aprilaire 600 series and the dealers felt 700 series would be better but we can live with the existing one. Any opinions on this?

Our best discharge option as it is in to the sump, which is in the finished part of the basement.

Apparently existing 19 year old furnace takes in 120K but and gives out 100K BTU. Everybody except one Trane dealer proposing 100K BTU.

Completely understand the temperature differences between the two floors can't be solved easily with a single HVAC system. our best bet with the single system without zoning is to adjust the damper control on the supply lines Two dealers felt like retrofitting with zoning is not needed. Trane dealer with the competitive pricing said it can be done if we need it. But obviously going with two systems is the cleanest way. Any idea about how much more costly to get two systems than a single HVAC ?

Sorry. Accidentally posted twice.

This post was edited by gardengal123 on Fri, Jun 14, 13 at 12:20

Two systems not cheap but best route in comfort for the long run. I would get a price though on zoning off one system.

IMO

We have three Trane quotes from $15K+, $11K+ and $8K+ for the same system. Obviously we don't want to talk to $15K dealer. But the remaining two won't reply to emails.
These are the three dealers serving our area as per the Trane website. Don't know what to think about this. It feels like they don't want do any changes to their proposals.

So we have two more proposals one Trane and Bryant from the same dealer with $8K+ proposal above.

Trane:

Trane XL16i model # 4TTX8048E1000A 4 ton (48K BTU)
Trane XC95M model # TUHMC100A9V4VA
Trane/Aspen model # ACE48D4421L015 evaporator coil
Honeywell model # YTH9421C1002
Trane Perfect Fit air filter
etc., for $8833

Bryant:

Bryant/Carrier Evolution Series model # 187BNA04800 4 ton (48,000 BTU ) 17.00 S.E.E.R. two stage air conditioner

Bryant/Carrier Evolution Series model # 987MA66100V21 variable speed, modulating 98% A.F.U.E. gas furnace

Bryant/Carrier model # CNPVP6124ALA evaporator coil.

Bryant/Carrier model # T6-PRH01-A digital, programmable, thermostat with
humidity controls.

Bryant/Carrier EZ Flex air filter.
etc., for $8593

We appreciate any comments on the above proposals

Both nice and similar systems. Each include the brand's premium modulating furnace. The Bryant has slightly better furnace efficiency.

Here are the AHRI directory's performance/ efficiency numbers for the Bryant system. Could not find anything on the Trane system with Aspen coil.

6370489 Active Systems EVOLUTION SERIES PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 187BNA048****A* CNPV*6124AL*+UI 987*A66100V21*** 49500 13.50 17.00 1 RCU-A-CB 352 Yes

Two problems stand out with the quotes.

First you will never get me to accept or approve a third party evap coil as quoted with the Trane system. You want the best matching Trane evap coil that qualifies for the small tax credit.

And second, you want the latest model Evolution controller for the Bryant Evolution system quoted and Trane's proprietary communicating thermostat for the Trane system quoted.

Accept no less on either. Still believe you should get a price on a zoning control.

IMO

Appreciate your reply. Sent an email about the coil and thermostats, once that clears up, we will get the proposal for zoning too.

Is the new line set need to be purged with the nitrogen too? Because one dealer mentioned that the brazing creates carbons in the line set and if it is not purged, system efficiency will suffer.

Here is another Bryant proposal

Bryant communicating natural gas furnace with modulating heating & variable speed motor with 97+% A.F.U.E. m# 987MA66100V21
Bryant, Evolution Series, m# 187BNA048000, 16.5 SEER, 13 EER, 4 ton, 2 stage communicating Air Conditioner with 410A, environmentally friendly refrigerant.
Bryant cased indoor evaporator coil, m# CNPVP4821ATA
Bryant Evolution Communicating WiFi Enabled Digital Programmable heat and cooling thermostat
$9700

Additional $550 for Bryant 10 year labour warranty
Additional $450 for Aprilaire Media cleaner Merv 11

Appreciate comments on the configuration and pricing. Thanks in advance

This Bryant system quote is from a different dealer?

I like the first Bryant quote better. Ask that dealer to update his quote with matching Evolution Wifi Controller.

6370416 Active Systems EVOLUTION SERIES PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 187BNA048****A* CNPV*4821AL*+UI 987*A66100V21*** 48000 13.00 16.50 1 RCU-A-CB 352 Yes

6370489 Active Systems EVOLUTION SERIES PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 187BNA048****A* CNPV*6124AL*+UI 987*A66100V21*** 49500 13.50 17.00 1 RCU-A-CB 352 Yes

IMO

Tigerdunes.. Thanks for the info.

Yes it is from a different dealer! Price includes latest Connex evolution control thermostat.

We are close to make a decision between the Trane and Bryant systems.

Here is the comparable Trane Proposal from the same dealer who is proposing the second Bryant system in your reply.

Trane System:
============
Trane XL16i model # 4TTX8048E1000A 4 ton (48K BTU)
Trane XC95M model # TUHMC100A9V4VA
Trane model # 4TXCD063BC3HCA evaporator coil.
Trane model # TZONE950AC52ZA Comfort Link thermostat.
Trane Perfect fir air filter.

$9333
additional $850 for 10 year dealer provided labor warranty
Discounts: $200 + $500(Federal Tax Credits) = $700

Bryant System from the above Trane dealer:
====================================
6370489 Active Systems EVOLUTION SERIES PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 187BNA048****A* CNPV*6124AL*+UI 987*A66100V21*** 49500 13.50 17.00 1 RCU-A-CB 352 Yes

with the evolution control wifi thermostat
$9193
additional $850 for 10 year dealer provided labor warranty
Discounts: $200 + $500(Federal Tax Credits) = $700

Bryant system from a different dealer
==============================
6370416 Active Systems EVOLUTION SERIES PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 187BNA048****A* CNPV*4821AL*+UI 987*A66100V21*** 48000 13.00 16.50 1 RCU-A-CB 352 Yes

With wifi evolution control thermostat
$9700 with $500 additional Bryant provided labor warranty.
Discounts: $500 Federal Tax credit

which one would you pick?

All of these are fine systems.

Here is the matching AHRI numbers on the Trane. note the condenser is XL18i, not XL16i. You should verify.

5943126 Active Systems XL18I TRANE 4TTX8048A1 4TXCD063BC3 *UHMC100ACV4 51000 13.00 17.25 1 RCU-A-CB 358 Yes

If I have read the quotes correctly, the first Bryant quote is the least expensive of the three systems. All are top of line. Slightly better heating efficiency with the Bryant system. I assume since you are going top of line, money is not the driving decision maker. With that being the case, then you must consider your comfort zone with the two dealers involved and their reputation in the marketplace. Who do you feel will give you the best install?Who has been very detailed? Who has performed a load calculation? Who has given your ductwork system a thorough inspection and determined if you have adequate return for best airflow and comfort? Just a few ideas that you should consider.

While some would disagree, I do believe a homeowner does get a small measure f protection by purchasing through authorized dealers. If you don't know, find out.

IMO

The second Bryant quote is from a Factory authorized dealer thats the reason he is able to provide 10 year labor warranty from Bryant. Will that be an advantage?

I don't see the factory authorized dealer logo for any of the Trane dealers around our zip code.

However both of them are NATE certified.

Trane/Bryant dealer has tons of good reviews and it is a service company too however they are not too prompt on answering the questions.

Tigerdunes, thanks for your help! We have signed the proposal to go with a Bryant factory authorized dealer:

6370489 Active Systems EVOLUTION SERIES PURON AC BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 187BNA048****A* CNPV*6124AL*+UI 987*A66100V21*** 49500 13.50 17.00 1 RCU-A-CB 352 Yes

With Bryant wifi Evolution Controller, EZ Flex filter and new everything including new transitions at the supply and return for $9450

After Tax credit it comes down to $8950

additional Bryant 10 year labor warranty: $550

Install is scheduled for next week. Can't wait to get it installed as it is getting close to unbearable here.

A heck of a nice system plus a fair price on Bryant extended warranty as well.

Be prepared. Those condensers are huge compared to what you have.

New lineset or flushing? Size must be to Bryant spec.

Good Luck!

IMO

Tigerdunes.... refrigerant piping, 3" concentric kit for exhaust, new condensate pump and emergency pan with cut off switch, new disconnect box, new pads for both inside and outside units are included.

Any other things to look out for?