Though not a large home, I would still only consider the 95% AFUE furnaces, especially if it does not add much to the total overall cost (looking at estimate #2). I see the Trane dealer is quoting an Aspen coil to get higher efficiency and meet the tax credit presumably, but if going with the 95% furnace, that qualifies you for the tax credit. In that case I'd ask for the Trane all-aluminum coil (10-year warranty)--personally I'd take the Trane coil over an Aspen coil.

Required to qualify for tax credit:
-95% AFUE furnace; or
-13 EER/16 SEER a/c; or
-12.5 EER/15 SEER/8.5 HSPF heat pump

I don't see how quote #7 would qualify.

The dealer who did a load calc (assuming it was accurate, though it does seem high for the square footage) is looking out for your comfort/efficiency more than those that just guessed. The Infinity 2-stage units only come in full-ton sizes. For your relatively small place to heat/cool, I would stick with a properly-sized single-stage unit. If your load is over 24,000 btu's (2 tons), I would not want an undersized 2-ton, 2-stage unit.

Thanks Ryan. I will ask about the Trane coil with the 95% AFUE estimate.

Let me see if I understand. You would not recommend a 2 ton AC condenser or heat pump but rather a 2.5 ton with this house (28,968 total cooling load, 912 sq feet heated/cooled space, solid brick house w/ no insulation & anderson insulated windows)?

On the issue of federal tax credits I was told by some estimators all components have to meet specs you outlined, while some told me only 1 component would have to meet specs to partially qualify, while some told me an 80% variable speed 2 stage furnace would qualify if matched with right AC & coil. So does an 80% AFUE single speed or variable speed 2 stage furnace meet the tax credit spec?

Would you recommend a 2.5 ton AC condenser over a heat pump?

There was another estimate for a Trane 80% AFUE single stage furnace TUD1B080A9241A; Trane 2.5 ton AC condenser 4TWX5030A1000A XL15i 16 SEER; Trane 4TXCB031BC3HCA coil. $5823 & was told would not qualify for tax credits---is this similar to your recommendation?

Thanks so much!

For sizing, I recommend whatever the load calc calls for. 2.5 tons for 900 sqft. sounds ridiculously oversized, so I question the accuracy of that load calc. So, I would ask each dealer about a load calculation.

I'm not sure what the IRS really intends for the tax credit (not sure anybody really does), but the way it's working now, if you get the 95% furnace, 30% off (up to $1500) of the entire installation cost, and if you get a 13 EER/16 SEER a/c, 30% off (up to $1500) of the total installation cost. $1500 is the cap per household.

Your home, being fairly small, probably wouldn't see a quick payback on a dual fuel system (heat pump + furnace). If you did get a heat pump, I'd match it to an 80% furnace, and if you got a straight a/c condenser, I would match it to a 95% furnace.

Ryan, I apologize, I don't follow your recommendation for single speed. Are you recommending staying with a 80% afue 80k btu SINGLE SPEED single stage gas furnace or a 2.5 ton SINGLE SPEED AC condenser?

I ask because most of the estimators were recommending a variable speed 2 stage furnace. Interested in your thoughts why you are recommending single speed furnace if that's what you were recommending. Thanks for your help!

My comment was with regards to the air conditioner. 2-stage units only come in full ton sizes. You need to have a load calculation done to determine what you really need. I find it hard to believe that 1000 sqft. in our area requires 2.5 tons of cooling. But if 2.5 tons is indeed correct per a load calculation, then I would go with the properly-sized single-stage 2.5 ton air conditioner. 2-stage would require you to go up to 3 tons, which would be a lot of cooling and a higher upfront cost that may not pay for itself in a smaller home.

Thanks Ryan. I am leaning towards a 80% AFUE 80k BTU furnace since I will be in the house less than 5 years. Interested in your thoughts why a heat pump would be a good match with an 80% furnace over a condenser. Thanks!

Ryan, i apologize what I meant to ask today is your thoughts why you would match a 80% furnace with a heat pump, & a 95% furnace with an AC condenser?

What are your thoughts on an 80% AFUE variable speed 2 stage furnace vs. single speed?

Thanks so much!

Since you plan to be in your house less than 5 years, the savings from a 95% furnace wouldn't pay for itself, so the 80% furnace makes sense. Unless future homebuyers care about this nowadays. A heat pump with the 80% furnace would help save on the heating bill (assuming reasonable heating costs) because a heat pump is an efficient heat source down to even below freezing, then the furnace would take over at a specific set temperature or when the heat pump can't keep up (would require a good thermostat like the Honeywell VisionPRO IAQ). But, if the added upfront cost is significant, just a furnace and air conditioner would not be unreasonable given you are not planning on being in the home for more than 5 years max. Ideally for replacements I recommend 95% furnaces with air conditioners or 80% furnaces with heat pumps; but whether you choose an 80% furnace with air conditioner will be your decision based on the circumstances.

80% AFUE, 2-stage, variable-speed is great to have for comfort and would be my recommendation. I believe for the most part this is what you've been quoted (Trane TUD, Carrier 58CVA).

sealie

I normally agree with Ryan. However, just looking at the various quotes and pricing plus taking into consideration the tax credit, the Carrier quote #5 is easily the best choice and value assuming you are sized correctly. The Carrier Infinity system is one of the few HVAC systems that is recognized as a premium system. It's my opinion that a 95% eff furnace will help you when you sell your home. And while it would be difficult to predict future nat gas prices,I think one should expect the worse. $5800 with tax credit is a darn good price.

and I do not want any third party coil that Trane is forced to use to get the tax credit.

IMO
Good Luck!

I agree with the Carrier #5 quote being the better option. If the true heat loss is over 65k, I sure wouldn't be installing a 60k furnace, however.

tigerdunes & ryanhughes: the problem with quote #5 is that 60k isn't enough btus to heat the house. i'm leaning towards trane 80k btu 80% afue variable speed 2 stage furnace since carrier comes in 60k, 70k & 90k btu furnaces, & the local hvac serviceman who works on alot of houses in my development said 75k btu for houses just like mine & his neighbor who had 75k btu furnace installed doesnt stay warm in the winter.

ryan, i am still trying to understand why you like heat pumps w/ 80% afue furnaces & condenser w/ 95% afue furnaces---can you help me understand this?

also would i see energy savings right away with a trane 19.5 SEER XL20i condenser or heat pump with the XV80 80k btu 80% afue variable speed 2 stage furnace vs a 15 or 16 SEER? i assume this set up with a trane coil or aspen coil would not qualify for $1500 in tax credits?

thanks!

"ryan, i am still trying to understand why you like heat pumps w/ 80% afue furnaces & condenser w/ 95% afue furnaces---can you help me understand this?"

Really depends on the climate. For our climate, where winters aren't as brutal as the midwest in some areas, an 80% furnace is a wise move for backup heat, since the heat pump will handle most of our heating anyway. I wouldn't buy a Mercedes S550 if I could only drove it a few times a month, so to speak.

The 20i condenser will undoubtedly save you on your cooling costs, but in the long run, probably wouldn't recoup the cost premium that I'm sure that system might carry. Your decision should be based on how long you plan on living in the home. And the 20i comes in a 2,3,4,5 ton size. So you would probably have to go with the 3 ton, have it run in low stage (1.5 tons) most of the time, and accommodate the ductwork to allow it to run efficiency and well in high stage.

ok, i got a much more affordable estimate on american standard 13 Seer, 80% afue 80k btu furnace, coil & thermostate today.

1)my question is why are the hvac sales people recommending variable speed furnaces when a couple of servicemen tell me that they have had to replace the variable speed motors in a number of the furnaces before their time at a cost of about $1000. 2 of the servicemen said to stick with a single speed motor which actually has multiple speeds but does not have the electronic components of a variable speed that make replacing motor so expensive.

2) how does american standard residential hvac compare to carrier & trane for value, longevity, & availability of parts? thanks!

1) Those motors, like any other motors, likely failed because they were installed in an application they shouldn't have been installed in: undersized ductwork straining the motor. Motors just don't usually die like that. The furnace should have a 10 year warranty anyway.

2) American Standard is the same thing as Trane.

1) Those motors, like any other motors, likely failed because they were installed in an application they shouldn't have been installed in: undersized ductwork straining the motor. Motors just don't usually die like that. The furnace should have a 10 year warranty anyway. Variable speed is worth it for its efficiency and comfort advantages, and I'd be wary of anyone downplaying current technology in favor of something less.

2) American Standard is the same thing as Trane.