Tom in Alabama

I like Trane HPs and don't mean to upset you but the system as configured is rather low end, not very good performance numbers, and lacks a var speed air handler which I would want for my home. Of course I don't know if you have budget constraints but after all, you live in hot, humid Alabama.

your system XR13 2 1/2 ton R-410
1106398 Active Systems XR13 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR3030A1 4TEC3F30B1 30200 11.00 13.00 28600 8.00 15600

with var speed air handler
1106402 Active Systems XR13 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR3030A1 4TEE3F31B1 31000 12.00 14.00 28600 8.00 15300

XR14 2 1/2 ton R-410a with vaar spd air handler
1104156 Active Systems XR14 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR4030A1 4TEE3F39A1 30400 12.00 14.00 26600 9.00 16500

XL15i 2 1/2 ton R-410a with var speed air handler
1382160 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5030A1 4TEE3F39A1 30000 13.00 15.75 30000 9.00 18000

just a few ideas for you to review.

for my home,I would want a var speed air handler. The XR14 with var spd air handler has better heating eff numbers which you don't get with the XR13

IMO

performance numbers provided from AHRI Directory
http://www.ahridirectory.org/ahriDirectory/pages/home.aspx

Here is a link that might be useful: AHRI Directory

Tigerdunes:

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, budget is a factor. Can you supply pricing info on the different systems you listed.

Tigerdunes makes good points. Aside from the variable-speed air handler factor (which would provide lower electricity usage and more comfort), I have one other issue with the quote: 2.5 tons for 1300 sq. ft. is huge, unless there is no insulation and tons of windows. How was this sized? Was it just based off of the old unit's size? How did the old unit do in heating and cooling? Ask about a Manual J load calculation--don't let them make any excuses; it's the only correct way to size a system. Budget may be a factor, but don't let poor workmanship come paired with it. I do like Trane equipment, and if you had to get the system as it is configured, as long as it is sized correctly, I would have no problem with it. Not the best efficiency numbers, but still a solid system in my opinion.

No Manual J load calculations were done. The old unit (2 ton Ruud) did not do very well...but it was old (9 SEER). The house is as old as the heat pump. There are 10 windows, 10 registers and has a high ceiling in the great room. Anyway, how much should I expect to pay to completely replace this old system?

Tom:

Your quote is for a basic 2.5 ton Trane heat pump. There's nothing wrong with that. If your budget is a little tight, that system will work well for your 1300 sq ft home. You don't necessarily need higher SEER system or a variable speed air handler if it's too pricey for you. Any new system, properly installed, will be leaps and bounds over what you are replacing.

The installation, including checking existing ductwork, is key to a good performing and long lasting system. Ductwork in an attic can be very problematic so make sure its sealed well - no leaks in supply or returns.

Best to you.

Pricing varies contractor to contractor, location to location. What were you quoted? It depends on the materials needed as well.

~$5800. See my first post for everything included in the quote.

Price isn't too bad. I'd be curious to know what the minor work in the attic is, though. See if you can get the Trane TCONT802 thermostat instead (I like the touchscreen thermostats better). Also, is there any reason that the unit was upsized and not sized properly according to a Manual J (it is sometimes hard to find a contractor to do one)? Efficiency really does not determine a unit's output/capacity. Perhaps the old 2-ton didn't keep up due to a problem with the unit. 2-tons "sounds about right" for a 1300 sq. ft. home, but only a load calc. will tell. Good luck.

we just had the 15i with variable speed air handler installed. It was $5700 and then a $400 rebate/ It came to $5300 including the rebate. Figure if you are getting a 2 1/2 would be less. Not sure if the 15 seer comes in 2 1/2 though

On second thought, I think the price should include an upgrade to a variable-speed air handler. The only place I wouldn't expect a variable-speed air handler is in a commercial application.

A few more questions:

1) Do prices really differ from state to state? What state are you in pepster2?

2) How much does it cost to have a new line set installed? Pepster2, did you have a new line set installed for that price?

3) Will I be able to tell a noticeable difference with a variable speed air handler?

1. Yes, Florida seems to have lower prices (where Pepster is from I believe--he/she can confirm). It depends on the supply and demand, the company's overhead, etc.

2. I can't comment on what Pepster had done, but I can tell you new linesets seem to be running in the $300+ range installed (but again, this varies--companies have different pricing, which is why it's best to get a few quotes). A new lineset should be included in the price in my opinion, for what you'd be paying. Who said new lines were needed for R-410a, though? This is a debated issue; some say they are for the best results, and some say they are not needed. And really, plenty of systems are used with the existing lines with no problems whatsoever. Sometimes it's just not feasible.

3. Assuming your ducts are sized properly (BE CAREFUL IF YOU'RE UPSIZING), I definitely think so. If the ducts aren't sized properly, then it ca be louder because the ECM (variable-speed) motor modulates to maintain CFM. From what I've seen, variable-speed motors are the only way to go to. They provide great comfort (humidity control), less noise, and money savings (use less electricity--efficient).

Any more questions, feel free to ask. I'm out of breath now. : )

Thanks for the quick answers!!

Has anybody dealt with Home Depot Home Services for a HVAC system? Does Home Depot get a cut thus making the price higher?

The answer to your HD question-

Yes, no or maybe.

All kidding aside, your local Trane dealers enter into contract with HD to provide their services under the HD umbrella. Yes, HD gets a cut, something like 25-30%, depending on market, however, the contract services to HD are less since, HD is providing the leads, sales and many times the financing.

So you see, HD can be competitive however if you choose to solicit their services, it is always good to compare with other brands and/or dealers to find a reputable company that you feel will give you the best install, service and fair price.

Does the above quote come from Home Depot? Just curious. I would avoid big box companies, but that's my opinion. Subcontractors, markup, etc.

It comes from the contractor that HD uses here.

After getting some other estimates over the phone, I was thinking that my quote was on the high side. So I called the contractor and he reminded me some things that I was forgetting...building a larger return box, replacing the return grill, etc. When this stuff is considered, his quote seems about right to me.

I would agree. Ask him about running a load calculation, as no new system will perform well if it's not properly sized. Don't be disappointed for the money you're spending. Be weary of phone quotes as well. It's hard to quote something you can't see.

Also, ask the contractor for the upgrade price to the 4TEE3F31 air handler (variable-speed) or similar. I recommend you spring for the variable-speed air handler if you can afford it so you can make your investment worthwhile in the long run (more and more v/s units are being installed). I'm sure you can get the contractor to upgrade you to the TCONT802 thermostat upon signing the contract.

Here is a link that might be useful: Trane TCONT Thermostats

We are in central Florida. If line set is new copper lines yes they did it. It also included adding two new incoming duct to a new room and one return from that room. I got the 803 thermostat that will in some ways work for humidity. Not sure if variable speed is good or not. They had fan set on high and it cooled house off before taking out humidity. They cam back and set it down ans is better now. Of course low humidity outside right now. Was bad over weekend when fan was in high. I know this unit is way way quieter than old one

"The only place I wouldn't expect a variable-speed air handler is in a commercial application."

Come on Ryan, standard fixed speed air handlers are still common in new residential systems. I have a new 3-speed air handler and it works fine. If I ever have to replace the motor out of warranty, it's a few hundred $$ max versus $1000 for an OEM v-s motor. It isn't always about the latest tech, it's about what's best for the individual situation.

"It isn't always about the latest tech, it's about what's best for the individual situation."

I agree 100%. I think for most home replacements, however, variable-speed seems to be the best choice for comfort and noise (from what I hear). I'm in the same boat as you (not variable-speed indoor unit). I could understand if someone does not want the extra charge, it is new construction, or the homeowner simply does not feel the need for it. But when you weigh the savings and reliability of the ECM motors, I think it's a wise way to go.

To add to my previous post:

If the ductwork system is in bad shape, I would not recommend a variable-speed blower, as it can be louder and cost more money to run.

Gary, if you look above, I explained that the 4TEC air handler would be perfectly fine if budget was a factor. I have no issues with using a 4TEC air handler, other than it not being variable-speed.