What size home?

What size and model AC condenser quoted?

What mdl evap coil quoted?

What size HVAC are you replacing?

New lineset, filter cabinet, Infinity controller included?

If there is no building obstacle as far as venting, then I would go to a 95%+ efficiency var speed furnace.

If you post your all inclusive fuel rates for both electric and nat gas, I will give you a fuel comparison to see if a HP has any economic operating advantage.

IMO

I agree with the recommendation on the 95%+ efficiency furnace. It will qualify for an small IRS energy credit plus there may be local utility rebates. This helps offset the higher initial cost.

You must have a big house in order to justify a 110,000 BTU furnace. Did anyone do an heating and cooling load calculation?

2100 sqft end unit townhome, built 2001.

Lineset is not going to be replaced, just cleaned and prepped.

AC is the 4ton 2 stage carrier infinity, and the evap is the matching 4ton unit. Thermostat is the carrier infinity one to get the variable system working, and the price includes a media filter. I don't have the model numbers with me, but I did ask.

costs 1.06 per ccf
11.5 per kwh

I also asked if he needed to rethink the 4ton unit, and said "no, not with this being an end unit with a southern exposure."

I have someone else coming in a few hours that will do a real load calc and evaluate the ducting, so that should help get me a proper playing field.

As for venting, I have a regular metal flu chimney now, so it would have to be lined. Either that or since the utility room is on an outside wall, I could go straight out. The only thing I would be picky about there is that I would need them to use a new rinnai black vent/intake for the furnace as well, since I already have one for my instant hot water system. I don't want to have two different looking protuberances from my house.

Normally development covenants and homeowner associations for THs and condos restrict furnaces to only 80% non condensing, non high efficient models. You need to dbl check on this. If possible and no restrictions, I would elect a 95%+ eff furnace.

I think you are being oversized both furnace and condenser. I would insist on a load calculation b4 I signed on the dotted line.

What size furnace and AC do you have now? How would you describe the building and insulation qualities of your TH?

No economic operating advantage to HP. You have moderate to moderate high electric rate compared to nat gas.

Post back.

IMO

Furnace is 80% 80k (100k) unit. So the change would be 10k up.

AC is 4ton York.

Insulation is "standard" R19/r38. Home is not terribly well sealed as built, but I have gone and put in a ton of caulking and spray can insulation to remove loss points as well as sealing up holes in the ducting with mastic and proper metal tape. The house is not housewrapped. I have not had a pressure test done as of yet.

I have changed out all of the can lights, save one, that go into the attic with ICAT models, with air tight inserts and CFLs. that last one is d@mn hard to get to, nowhere to put a ladder to get up there! I will get it eventually though, maybe the next generation of LED lights will inspire me to get it done once and for all.

I would want to see a load calc in writing before making decision. I think you are oversized on quote both AC and furnace. Never good.

And definitely go 95%+ on furnace if you are able to. You might see what your neighbors have.

IMO

None of my neighbors have a 95%. I'm the first in the neighborhood by a good couple months. I know two others have had their hvac go out, but they replaced with like systems.

Just had another quote done, he believed 3.5ton might be right and that the furnace was also close but slightly high. They will do a load calc before install and use the smallest system, but the quotes were done at 4ton so we are all on the same page.

95% was well over a thousand more expensive... I don't think I will be here 10 years, and that seems like how long it would take to pay back unless I am missing something?

in the end their quotes came down to a 17seer amana at 7200 or a 16 seer carrier at 8200, 4ton and 90kbtu. Two stage in and out, and including the proper thermostats and new media filter.

If you would like a comment, then I would need to see all details on the Carrier quote including Mdl numbers for furnace, AC, and evap coil.

IMO

Quote 1:
58cva110-1-20
24and748a003
cnpvp4821aca
wifi carrier controller 545

$8700

Quote 2:
24anb748a003
cnpvp4821ala
58cva090-16
carrier wifi thermostat

$8200

Quote 3: (amana)
asxc160481
capf4961c6
amvc8100scn
amana thermostat

7200

2 year labor, 10 year on most. Amana has higher warranty on everything else.

For quote 2/3 the vendor will do a load calculation and move down to the next lower size if possible.

Well, I assume you have decided against the 95% eff furnace. I think that's a mistake.

However while Amana quote might be compelling, I like quote #2 best. Not sure what the WiFi thermostat is but you definitely want the Infinity controller for an Infinity system. That's for certain. Discuss with dealer.

Here are the AHRI matching performance/efficient numbers.

5635020 Active Systems INFINITY 17 PURON AC CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 24ANB748A**31 CNPV*4821A**+UI 58CV(A,X)090-16 48000 13.00 16.00 1 RCU-A-CB 363 Yes

You definitely want a load calc performed and given to you in writing for your review.

If you have any hot/cold spots in your TH, now is the time for dealer to address.

I assume you have adequate returns for best airflow and comfort.

IMO

I have 4 returns, MBR, hallway ceiling upstairs, on the stairs on the main floor and in the basement on the wall between the utility room and the living space. The guys quoting said they looked like good locations, as well as the location of the thermostat being good.

The wifi thermostat is the carrier infinity thermostat with wifi support. Lets you set it up or adjust remotely, but either way it is the infinity one.

I asked about the 95% and they said that based on the cost (1.06 per ccf) that there would be no payoff. Do you think otherwise? The unit cost is about a grand more and requires a more complex install with cost.

I am not against it, but the people quoting certainly were. Do you know how I can get some numbers that would help me make the decision?

what makes you like #2 more than the amana? Would the carrier be significantly quieter/better? The labor warranty would be much more than the amana from my understanding. (1200 vs 400 for 10yr)

Basement tends to be cold by a few degrees in the winter.

Load calc will definitely be in hand before I allow anything to be installed.

The 95% AFUE furnace qualifies for a $150 tax credit. It may also qualify for a local utility rebate.

Calculate your current annual heating cost. You will save about 15% by going with the 95% AFUE furnace vs the 80% model.

No local rebate unfortunately, not unless I were going solar or geothermal.

Cost is $700 based on this years bills.

so it would be a savings of about 105 dollars per year, plus 150 tax credit.

Meaning a 12 or so year payoff, if I am getting the costs right. Fine if I were staying here longer than ten years, but I really can't predict safely past 3 or so, much less ten. Unless natural gas prices are expected to rise rapidly, then it would be worth it.

Does that sound correct?

There is also the intangible of making your home more saleable at a future date. Something to consider. Even at that, an 80% for your location/climate is a dinosaur. Homeowners are becoming more energy efficient savvy compared to not so many years ago when they really didn't care.

If your basement is colder and is used for living space, it probably needs more supply BTUs. Discuss with dealer. Shouldn't be an expensive fix.

I just don't think Amana is same quality as Carrier.

IMO

I just got the official cost back, $1500 for the 95afue vs 80afue.

That's too high. Stick with the 80. Should be no more than 1K.

Make certain you do get the matching Infinity controller.

And I would recommend a pleated filter media cabinet for the furnace. Changeout is easy and filters normally last up to one year.

IMO

Yep, media filter is included in all of the above quotes. Thermostat/controller for each system is the one designed for proper communication as well.

Also, I have decided that the load calc is just too important to have in hand before we get moving on a system, even if the one company will drop the cost/units back if required. So I have one final quote coming from a company who will do a load calc first, then base their unit choice suggestions on that. So I get to deal with the heat for a few more days it seems.

I need to find someone with an old window unit just to keep one room cold enough for the dog and cats.