I know you said that you need a tight cookzone, but the 30" pinch point is really tight especially as a main walkway. Is there a reason you prefer a separate cooktop and oven if you are the only cook? Can you put a range where you have the oven and replace the island w/ a smaller movable one? You could still sit there and use it as a workspace, but it wouldn't creep so far into the walkway.

a peninsula combines it with the 28"x28" table.

Aesthetically, it looks very nice. I like symmetry and your kitchen is very symmetrical. However, I do think your fears are justified about being cramped.

First, your aisles are rather narrow...especially b/w the table & island and the island & bottom wall (more on that one later).

Since you want a compact cooking area, I do think the 36" work aisle b/w the sink and island will work IF you shift one of them so they're not directly across from each other (don't put the DW directly across from the cooktop either). Right now, you cannot have someone in front of the sink and cooktop at the same time.

Second, since you need approx 24" per seat, you can only fit one seat at the end of your island...even if it is only for chopping (you need elbow/work room for chopping).

Since that doorway on the bottom left is a main doorway, the 30" aisle may be an issue...it should be at least 36" w/no workspace, 42" to 48" if workspace on the aisle. I suppose you could make do with that "pinch point" as long as you don't think the Coffee/Beverage Center will be too heavily used. Could you take out the door & make it a doorway w/no door and then remove that small wall on the right? You could gain 4 or 5 inches that way.

Cooktop should have at least another 12" behind it (preferably 18"), especially if that 30" pinch point stays...people will be walking very close to that cooktop and w/grease splattering, steam billowing, etc. it will be a dangerous place to walk. You could also use a little more work/landing space to the left of the cooktop, especially as it's on an end and things will fall off (ditto for behind the cooktop). I should mention that, in general, I do not like cooktops/ranges in islands or peninsulas. Not only do I think they're dangerous for others in the kitchen (especially this setup) but in order to adequately vent them, you need a big hood hanging down in the middle of the kitchen and you will need more CFMs b/c there's no wall behind it to help contain the fumes/grease/heat/steam/etc. Island hoods are usually more expensive as well.

Is that a cabinet b/w the DW & Sink? What is it? Why is it there? I think the DW would work much better if it were directly adjacent to the sink base. I'd then put a trash pullout on the other side of the sink. The only reason I might leave it where it is is b/c of the narrow work aisle...you don't want an open DW to block the aisle if you can possibly avoid it. But, that counter over the DW is also the only landing space for the oven & MW and if the DW is open it will be difficult to utilize that landing space.

I guess if it's just the two of you then the tight aisles might not be too bad (except behind the cooktop since it is a major thoroughfare), but if you entertain or plan to increase your family then I would think about some of these things.

HTH!

Thank You, good points all, and exactly why I posted to the forum. I can definitely get hung up on form over function.

I had a typo. That 30" on the pass through walkway should be 35". Or, 36" each side if I move the sink side back 1", however figured I'd need the extra there instead of walk through since there was no work being done that side.

The left corner wall can't be removed as the hallway is a waiting area for DH music students & the door to the kitchen is closed during teaching hours.

The wall oven/micro combo was chosen because of the raised oven door being easier for me to use (stability safety issue).

The DW was moved a little farther from the sink to allow for opening the DW free of the island.

The cabinet between DW & Sink is the pull out Trash Bins

Yes, I wrestled with the sink/cooktop across from each other and wondered just how much it would or would not interfere.

The notation of the lack of 12 to 18 inch cooktop landing space to the backside of the island is for me 'key' and the one I need to address most I think. I don't fry or cook with grease, but I do boil so that is a definite issue.

Back to the drawing board!

I've posted an empty kitchen. If anyone would care to sketch in their suggestions of a good layout I'd love the input. No structural changes & using the following appliances.
30" cooktop (JA)
30" oven/micro combo (KA)
36" counter depth fridge (JA)
24" dishwasher (JA)

Overall it has a very nice look to it.. my three comments would be

1) I'd have 36" for the walkway-- not less. It will be cramped.

2) where's the ventilation for your cooktop?

3) not sure how you cook, but I'd be worried about grease or other cooking by-products being close to people since you have walk -ways on all sides. Maybe you could have your wall oven in the island and put the cooktop where the sink is (to the left, maybe?)

davidro1, would you mind expanding on your message 'a peninsula combines it with the 28"x28" table'.

I'm not getting a picture in my mind of what you mean.

Thanks
Jazzie

danielle00,

We changed from a downdraft cooktop choice to smooth top electric & looking for the least bulky hood vent we could find (still looking). Mind you I have never, ever had a vent system in any house I've lived in and I may be the only one anywhere that doesn't see the absolute need for one. :)

Jazzie

{{gwi:1564629}}
Or maybe run the cooktop across the northeast corner.

Other thoughts are about the radiator - if its hot water, can you get a different one that is smaller - like the euro-style radiators? Is the window tall enough to place cabinets in front of it?

Explanation for ruthlessly cutting out the table and stools. A table and chairs must have 32" beyond the table edge to be able to pull out the chair and get into in. So, the minimum length to fit the table and chairs is 64" plus the table width of 28" or 92".

The room is about 144" wide. At the point of tableness, its less 20" of width so we have 124" instead. There is a row of cabinets on one side, so now its 99". The table and empty chairs will take up something like 50 - 54". If the table is centered in the 99", there will be an aisle of about 20-24" in front of the ovens and little cabinet as shown in your drawing. On the other side, the door will open into the chair.

The table is right up against the radiator and when people are seated there in the winter, there is the possibility of burns for youngsters. If the chairs are occupied, the aisle in front of the ovens shrinks to about 12". So, one person needs to move for you to use the ovens, and the other can get smacked by a door.

The narrow aisles around the island won't support having stools placed perpendicular to the island. An 28" wide end location won't support having two seats - each person needs about two feet of counter edge.

remove the table, make the island about 140" long, and it looks like a peninsula. The part nearest the rad can be wide (33" or more, the middle part 27", and the end a bit narrower and with a round outer corner.

Doing this:
- the island blocks the view of the dishwasher when you approach from one of the two doors.
- also you lose the direct access to the microwave when entering.
- one of the two seats too, has to be gotten to by walking around the peninsula.
- cooktop moves closer to the window and rad, thus is easier to vent (less out in the middle, less crossbreeze)

This idea assumes you are keeping the layout as shown in your first image posted above.

HTH
-david

Can the doorway to the LR/DR be moved down slightly(9") to line up with the wall on the other end? That 9" might give more wall space over for appliances w/out crowding on the L.

Bmore did what I was thinking--lose the island and do an L. I'll have to think about the rest of her changes, but I think an L would serve better than a fixed island.

Have you already purchased the MW/Oven stack or could we break up the MW & Wall Oven? If yes, do you use the MW when cooking/baking i.e. melting butter/chocolate or for reheating/snacks? If yes to the second, maybe the MW could go over with the coffee/snack station.

Before I work on it, I'm going to ask a personal question that you don't have to answer...but it would help. You seem to have special needs...raised oven, compact work areas. Is this due to a physical handicap that we might need to take into consideration?

For example, about a year ago there was a kitchen that had to be designed around the need to use a wheelchair (extra wide aisles, turning radius, cabinet protectors, lower workspace, etc).

I'm not being nosy, I just want to make sure I know how much things like "access standards" need to be addressed rather than ignored.

jazzed

Congrats on your remodel

Do you have anything in the plans for soundproofing? Noise will travel up - If you are gutting, this would be the time to add some good sound reducing products
Examples:
Mass loaded vinyl 1/8" on the floor
Roxul mineral wool in walls
at least 5/8" sheetrock - most GC's put in 1/2" - 5/8" is also fire coded
Exterior door on "studio door" - ** I found one in my local lumber yard clearance ctr for $20 & cut it to size
Plumbing - if you have old cast iron pipes - & they are being replaced - it will be q/PVC which is very noisey

Good luck
Good luck

I am seeing this after you've had your meeting, but I agree that going to an L shaped layout if going to work best. I've had a cooktop in an island across from a cooktop. I had the DW next to the sink and it did overlap the island. It opened ok with about a 36" aisle, but it was tough to get around it if open. The biggest problem was having two people working in the kitchen -- anywhere, because you inevitably wound up bumping into each other at the sink, DW and cooktop. We also had 12" behind it, and it wasn't enough to be functional, especially with the tile counters. I am so happy to have my cooktop on the wall now.

I had 36" aisles on 2 of my 3 before remodel and only one of them opened up a bit (changed to a built-in fridge -- had planned for a counter depth -- either would have helped). Now that the cooktop has moved, the 36" is okay. We sometimes have 2 people working with the DW and sink, but it isn't nearly the traffic problem of cooking there too. I've had 30" doorways, but I would not want any length of only 30" clearance.

If you do something similar to what is posted above, you can have some incredible storage and good work areas. In that lower left corner, I'd probably consider a small pub table with a couple of stools.

Having a mobile island is not a bad thing -- I saw some Boos islands at Marshall's Home Goods and would have loved to have had a place for one. Little things like a towel bar of knife slots on the side, baskets for towels or produce below can give you a very handy addition.

Good luck! Have fun.

Sorry for the delay in responding; I was away till this morning.

bmorepanic: Thank you for taking the time to rework the plan. The hot water rads never get too hot so we're ok that way. Silly I know... I admit that the reason I didn't want to go around the corner with cabinetry etc was to keep that end wall clear to have a place to display my artwork.

We do need 2 chairs & table. Currently we have a 54" round table (pre this house purchase) with 2 chairs and it is a very tight fit with a utility cart too behind the north chair along the long wall. Definitely a tight fit. We've been living with it for 7 1/2 years so downsizing to a 28" square bistro style will feel positively spacious! I close the door when seated at the table, but have thought of putting in a pocket door instead.

David: I hadn't thought of an island 3 different widths. I'll give it a try.

laxsupermom: Due to placement of stairs to the basement & to upstairs attic/loft bedroom the DR door can't be moved over. The appliances have all been ordered. I went with the KA convection micro/oven combo for the features of having a dual oven without having to purchase a double.

buehl: I don't mind at all the personal question. I realize I should have given more background.
My DH & I are empty nesters (mid 50's). Our 2 children (1 grandchild - 2yrs) live at a distance and visits to here are about 4 times a year for a weekend duration.
I have a non-functioning ankle (fusion or ankle replacement hopefully in my future). This causes issue with inability to bend correctly from the knee to reach down & lifting. A raised oven will be so much easier & safer.

This injury also causes instability in balance, so having to move only a couple of steps when carrying anything hot like pasta water to dump in the sink is important.
A place to sit to chop veggies etc is necessary from time to time.

jejvtr: Good question about soundproofing, but not an issue. The music studio is only a couple of steps down from the kitchen level, cinderblock wall with the hallway in between and a door on each side. It is almost completely soundproof.

lascatx: I mixed up my dates and the cabinet guy comes next Saturday. It's good the hear from someone who has lived with a similar setup. Even though I'm the only cook, there is at times 2 of us trying to do things in there at the same time.

Thank you everyone. I will take all your suggestions & work on more layouts and see what revisions I can make that will make me happy.

Jazzie

Those are the EXACT issues with the cooktop placement. I done after saying this...
First problem is twisting on your ankle - back and forth to the sink, and the second is typified by the pot of boiling water that gets knocked off the cooktop while you're trying to save yourself from falling. In your case, the pot of boiling water thing is a potential issue from both sides of the island.
============
You might think about raising the dishwasher so the top is at around 4 feet. With tall tub dishwashers, the bottom is way the heck down there. As an empty nester, you might also look at a single dish drawer, they don't do pots well, but you can't beat the ergonomics.

I've reworked the layout based on previous suggestions.

Here goes:

I've removed the cooktop from the island & angled it in the corner.

Reduced the depth of the sink-wall counter slightly to 24". It can be bumped out over DW & cooktop area once it clears the island. This will increase the aisle space to 35".
The pinchpoint on the walkway side would only be for 1 or 2 steps max.

What I don't like is that the fridge is now a long way from the cooktop. I don't know if there would be enough room to switch out the fridge with the D/O next to the cooktop. The cabinet guy says the surround for the fridge will be 38". Would that leave any working space to the right of the cooktop?

For economy of steps placement in the Island would be better, however I do acknowledge the safety issue.

Any thoughts on this?