desperation falls, I am thinking that either a large sand cast or a 4" piece of blue/pink foam cut to the shapes of your cloister arches may work. Brainstorming and have not thought totally through, but you could use a 4ft section of 4" blue foam, using big felt marker transfer a pic of your arches. Consider just making one/two of the arched sections for easier handling and working out the texture/detail while still damp. After your drawing is there using a serrated knife (there are other options for this but 1st thought)cut out your design. Tape the raw edges of the form with duct tape so you can release your form later. Bend some rebar or using straight pieces at least for the straight edges, set these aside. Lay your form on a flat space covered with plastic, and using a mix of concrete/tufa/lightweight mix to your liking, begin adding to the voids of the foam. Half way lay in your rebar, then add the rest. Once the mix has set up a bit you can carve the columns/cloister to your liking. This would be difficult to turn over, but with help you may be able to pancake it and turn it to be able to carve into the other side. Let the whole thing set up for several days before releasing from the foam. To create a more stable design you could incorporate a short length of pvc pipe into the column portions that would allow you to insert rebar into the ground, and use the pvc as stantion posts to hold in place, plus allowing you to reposition later. As I am writing I think I would make it in no more than 2 sections at a time. In the pictures it appears they used 6" cardboard columns from a hardware store that had molding added on the inside to create the fluting. It is so much fun to see what others have come up with. Dena

Dirtbert, You're method of "rainbowing" them makes perfect sense. That's what I love about this forum...how friendly forum members share with each other for the betterment of all! It also makes me glad I posted the photo to get the thread going, even though it wasn't a perfectly beautiful example, all neat and tidy. I'm also glad to know I don't have to drive all the way to Dad's, unload his trailer, go get my load, return the trailer and reload Dad's equipment. This way is much easier. Zengeos, Think about the 52" running the LENGTH of the pickup. When you tuck each 52" end in along the length of the pickup it will automatically form the rainbow shape dirtbert is referring to, and will make your pickup resemble a covered wagon. Or maybe I'm mistaken about which way is best to position them. Maybe its a covered wagon turned 90 degrees?

This looks lots better without the hutch! I think I feel the same way you do about doors. When I asked our designer who was taking my design and putting it into construction drawings what he would change, he said, "You have too many doors!" I told him I needed every one of them, kept them all, close most of them daily and the others weekly, and thank my lucky stars every day that I didn't listen to him! So it seems to me that you should keep these doors for all of the very good reasons you gave, ESPECIALLY because you can't multi-task in the kitchen with noise (I'm the same way), or you will probably regret it. I have a somewhat similar situation at the end of our lower level TV/WS room that sort of funnels down as you approach our stairs--a set of 48" wide double doors on the furnace room on a slanted wall on the right, a set of 48" double doors on a closet that juts out into the room on the left, and a set of 54" double doors to the workshop sort of straight ahead, just past the bottom of the stairs that go up to the right. I had planned every inch of our house, but the closet was an afterthought. When the 3 sets of doors were installed, I thought, "Wow, that looks cool!"--just like I HAD planned it! So, in spite of the irregular nature of the space, the thing that I think makes it work is the absolute sameness of the doors and trim, as well as the relative distance between them. But it's definitely not symmetrical. Our doors have no glass, and are stained 3-panel oak with with a simple 3-1/4" arts & crafts trim. We don't have all of the competing glass around that you have, since there are no windows in this area. Because you only see your 3 sets of doors from the family room, and with your seating arrangement really only facing the 2 sets of doors to the interior of the house, this will probably work out ok. I'd make the doors to the kitchen double doors, and have them open onto the family room walls, and have the lites, trim, height, and frame width match the doors to the dining room as much as possible--make it look like they were all put in at the same time. The sliding door to the deck will look different no matter what you do, but I'd try to get the other sets of doors to match it in trim and height, although I'm guessing that you won't be able to match the sliding door lites' design, since your pictures are showing different styles. Also, take into consideration the lites' style on the exterior windows of the family and dining rooms when you're finalizing your sets of doors. Not sure I'd put glass doors in the cabinets in the family room, since there's already so much glass in this room. In any case, can you try this out with a double door in the 6' space, see if you think it might work, and let us have a look? Anne

Nik, I now feel pretty confident they're selling the same rose under 2 different names. The first of my photos isn't entirely typical, I don't get many like that, and the 2nd looks much larger than it really is. I'll post another couple of photos later, but just looking at the roseraie du desert site in France, I think confirms what I'm saying about it...as they have both.. ''Adam [Beales] large double flowers, soft salmon colour, Tea scent, no thorns, very similar to Mme Berard. Climbing.'' ''Adam [Fineschi] Large, very double blooms of lilac pink centre fading to pale pink at edges, very thorny.'' However, to confuse the issue further, it seems your rose may be Mme Simon, and I wonder if mine is too... 'Mme. Berard' [Guillot] yellow climber sometimes with some salmon, the true form...'' 'Mme. Simon' Came to us as 'Adam' from Beales. Sometimes incorrectly regarded as Mme Berard which is more yellow. White-Pink, occasionally shaded tender yellow, few prickles. A seedling of Mme Berard''' --------------------------------------------------------- ..take your pick...