wildcat

first of all, I am not a Trane basher but your choices for a 4 ton Trane heat pump in a qualifying tax credit configuration is going to be very limited.

I would not have the XL16i condenser and in fact there is not a 4 ton XL16i that qualifies for the tax credit.

What size system are you replacing and what size heat strip do you currently have?

I understand that Trane will introduce this summer a 4 ton qualifying tax credit system in the XL20i model.

Trane has fallen behind in performance/efficiency numbers above 3 1/2 ton.

I personally would look at the recently introduced Carrier Performance 16 HP if you want a two stg system with excellent numbers.

you can look up qualifying systems using the AHRI HP Directory. Link provided below.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: AHRI HP Directory

Thanks for the response. It is a 4 ton system with the same 25 kw heat strip. Unfortunately Carrier is not an option the Carrier dealer in the are is a little on the shady side. I live in a fairly rural area and the two main dealers in town are Trane and Lennox dealers. There is another that carries Goodman/Amana stuff but I really don't want to go down that road. I have done business with the Trane dealer and Lennox dealer in the past and believe they are fair and reputable the others in the area not so sure. Do you have any knowledge about Lennox HP equipment? The home is all electric with no availability of natural gas.

wildcat

Here is a sgl stg XR15 system that has nice numbers and qualifies for tax credit.

3523496 Active Systems XR15 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR5048E1 4TEE3C10A1 48000 12.50 15.00 45000 9.00 29800

you will need Trane's XL900 thermostat for this system.

Bryant is same as Carrier and has the same two stg Carrier HP system as mentioned above.

York also has qualifying 4 ton models in their high end 8T Affinity hp systems with nice numbers.

Lennox has qualifying models but don't have full BTUs for 4 ton systems and rather mid range heating efficiency.

IMO
Good Luck!

Thanks Tiger, I will research the Trane system and get a quote on it from my dealer.

Tiger,

Can the heat strips be staged with the XR 15 system? You say that I would have to get the Trane XL 900 thermostat with this system, why not the Honeywell IAQ thermostat that I have seen you are high on? Is there much difference between the XR 15 and the XL 15i, like enough difference to forgo the tax credit and get a 15i system? Thanks for any help.

wildcat

you will need to discuss staging heat strips with your dealer. Trane does have staged heat strip modules but not certain if they offer one as large as you need. If dealer does not know, he should call the Trane field rep. I know Trane offers a 10/15 KW model.

It seems you are stuck on Trane. Yes, I like Trane equipment and Trane heat pumps. Trane though has been and still are behind the curve on performance/efficiency numbers. Neither the XL15i, XL16i, or XL20i qualify for the tax credit in a 4 ton split system with air handler. Trane introduced the XR15 model to try to get a qualifying system in the larger sizes when they realized there were losing business because of not qualifying for the tax credit. No, I would not take a non qualifying XL15i for a qualifying XR15.

As to the thermostats, I recommended the 4 ton XR15 system with the communicating air handler because it had higher HSPF heating efficiency than the conventional VS air handler. The communicating Trane air handler needs the communicating stat. That's the reason for the XL900 stat.

see below numbers. not trying to confuse you, just offer the best advice.

3523496 Active Systems XR15 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR5048E1 4TEE3C10A1 48000 12.50 15.00 45000 9.00 29800 1
3514632 Active Systems XR15 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR5048E1 4TEE3F65B1 48000 12.50 15.00 46000 8.50 30200

I still suggest getting a quote on Bryant's Preferred 16 two stg system.

IMO
Good Luck!

Tiger,

Again thanks for the help. There is a Bryant dealer in the next town over, I will get a quote from them as well.

Tiger, one thing I noticed about the Carrier/Bryant mid-line 2-stage equipment is that the capacity on low stage is around 80% of full capacitor, or even more in some sizes. That leaves quite a bit to be desired for longer run times/dehumidification. Same problem with Trane's XL16i. That's why I won't recommend either one of these condensers personally. The Infinity has a better capacity split (typically 72-75% capacity on low stage) based on the documents I've looked at. I know you are aware of this aspect of 2-stage condensers and why they generally aren't always as good as they sound. I just wanted to bring this to your attention about the Carrier and Bryant models.

Typo above, should read "capacity" rather than "capacitor." : )

Ryan

As you know, I am not a real fan of two stg condensers primarily over price, marginal comfort improvement and operating cost. A true modulating condenser would be desireable and I predict this will be the next step forward for high end condensers.

I agree with what you say about these two stg condensers, either AC or HP. This homeowner was interested in a two stg system that qualified for tax credit. As I stated above, this is a serious shortcoming of Trane's two stg models in four and five ton size. That is why I mentioned the recently introduced Performance and Preferred 16 two stg models. With an Infinity or Evolution controller, humidity control should be no problem. I am surprised that Trane has not discontinued the XL16i. And I have been told that the XL20i will be available in tax credit qualifying four and five ton models this summer. we'll see if that comes true.

IMO

I don't have to have a 2 stage model. What I am looking for is the most energy efficent and reliable system I can get that will qualify for the tax credit and not cost me an arm and a leg. Heating bills are currently higher than cooling bills which is to be expected when the heat strips kick in. This unit is for a home that I am in the process of puchasing that has the original heat pump that was put in 1993. It is a 3500 Sq Ft. home with 2200 SF upstairs and a partialy finished walk out basement. I have not had a load calc done on the home at this time.

wildcat

if the partially finished walkout baement sq footage is included in your 3500 sq ft living area, then I would recommend that a load calc be performed. basements that are partially or fully below grade have small heating loss/heating gain. In other words, you might really need a smaller HP system.

If this was my home, I would insist on it.

IMO

I am acquiring quotes for a 3-1/2 ton Trane XR15 VSP A/H, Heat Pump that meets the Tax Credit criteria. Can someone explain the difference between Air Handler Models:
4TEE3C09A1000A and 4TEE3F65B1000A. Is one of these of newer design? Can the XL900 Digital Thermostat work with either of these units? Finally, which unit carries a higher price tag?

saberin

start your own forum thread and I will try to answer your question.

TD