Also....on 9/11 the majority of the people who perished where not on the airplanes they were in the towers and on the ground. Just because you don't fly does not guarantee your safety. Do you have a son or grandson? If we ever were to have a draft this would affect them. Terrorism can destroy our weakened economy. After 9/11 the stock market had a major drop.
The image on the full body scan is of your naked body not your sketeton. Unless you are Angelina Jolie I doubt the screeners will even notice you.
Donna

Ron,
I agree with you. Here is a link to your site.

Here is a link that might be useful: Israel security

The only way to fly is wearing slip on shoes. Stash your warm winter boots/shoes in your suitcase just before you hand it over, hoping you get it at the other end. LOL

Then walk around in your slippers. So much easier to take off, and slip back on at the other end of the security walk through.

I would rather take a body scan than be wanded and patted down. The metal in my leg sets some things off. Nothing like two steel plates and 17 screws. LOL

Moni

Add my name to flamingos post.

Ron (the other Ron)

"I would rather suffer a few seconds of indignity than be onboard a plane that blows up in mid air. "

"I'd rather them scan my naked body, than have to look for my DEAD clothed body on the ground."

Worthy of quoting!

That was a great article/op-ed piece in the Boston Globe. The author's chief point is, our TSA and security practices are very re-actionary, rather than being proactive.

El Al (Israel) *does* profile passengers. They examine "people rather than things" and that makes a lot of sense.

Last time I flew, I saw an elderly American woman hoisted out of her wheelchair for "additional screening." I had a friend of a friend whose 11-year-old little girl got pulled aside for additional screening.

We're all being treated like criminals and now being asked to submit to a virtual strip down. We need to adopt El Al's attitude and go after the criminals and stop humiliating the people who play by the rules. I guess that's my main point.

This (from the article) makes a lot more sense:

"Israelis check for bombs and weapons too, but always with the understanding that things don't hijack planes, terrorists do -- and that the best way to detect terrorists is to focus on intercepting not bad things, but bad people. To a much greater degree than in the United States, security at El Al and Ben Gurion depends on intelligence and intuition -- what Rafi Ron, the former director of security at Ben Gurion, calls the human factor.

Israeli airport security, much of it invisible to the untrained eye, begins before passengers even enter the terminal. Officials constantly monitor behavior, alert to clues that may hint at danger: bulky clothing, say, or a nervous manner. Profilers -- that's what they're called -- make a point of interviewing travelers, sometimes at length. They probe, as one profiling supervisor told CBS, for ``anything out of the ordinary, anything that does not fit."

Many of the travel professionals have been saying that for many years, Ron, no one does security better than El Al. Sadly we have the ACLU and so cannot seem to accomplish the same thing. Too many people will scream discrimination or will sue everyone imaginable. We need to decide what is most important, the safety of the masses of the rights of a few.

I could care less about full body imaging and if anyone sees me naked.

The screeners have a very busy job and need to keep the lines moving. They have one thing to concentrate on - looking for anything that shouldn't be admitted on a plane. I doubt that they are spending time oogling anyone's body - I doubt that they would have the time to do so.

Besides, after seeing a few naked bodies, they've probably seen them all. Most likely it doesn't even phase them. Yeah, I'm 50 and overweight. But I want to land at my destination still being 50 and overweight rather than being 50, overweight, and dead in the ocean somewhere.

I don't see what the big deal is. Gynecologists and other medical personnel see a lot more than airport screeners and are just as necessary. Anything that makes flying safer should be supported by everyone.

El Al is roughly 1/4th the size of our largest commercial airline. I don't think it's realistic to expect that we could reach the same level of security as they have. You cannot manage the US commercial fleet that way, it would result in utter chaos.

al-Quaida has won. Without firing a shot.

The 'security' measures practiced by TSA are useless, serving as a 'pacifier' to the public and a way of keeping a lot of otherwise unemployed people off the dole.

Why do we go shoeless? The machines examining our shoes on those conveyor belts are incapable of detecting the explosives used by the 'Shoe Bomber' and the latest terrorist flying from Amsterdam.

Why am I 'wanded' and 'patted' *every trip*? I'm a Clean, White, Rather Wrinkled and Usually Friendly Senior Female with two artificial hips. I never see anyone who looks shabby (perhaps *smelly*) being wanded. Is there a quota? Betcha.

Point is, none of these make-work procedures are useful. They'll never be as useful as a crackdown on the national level requiring the various FBI/CIA turf-protectors to cooperate and coorinate information.

I don't CARE if I must walk through a scanner. (No-touch is a GOOD THING.) However, until there's better attention paid to information and to the still-absent security outside the terminals (tarmac, luggage, etc.) --- will scanning passengers really make any difference?

It's also up to the other passengers and crew to point out any odd behavior. If someone is in the lav for more than a few minutes knock on the door and get a flight attendant. Keep your ears and eyes open to anything that looks out of the ordinary and report it to the crew. I walk through the cabin BEFORE take off to see if anyone appears overly nervous.
Donna

since we're right on the flight path for many incoming to detroit metro, i'm grateful for any measure that keeps the plane in the air and not on top of my house.

I travel quite a bit and the new screening doesn't bother me...If they want to look at this tired old body with all the screws holding it together, go for it....
But I do remember right after 9/11, I was coming back from Florida and was one of the chosen few to be pulled out of line and searched...I was early and the search was no big deal but afterwards, I just sat and watched who was being pulled out of line...Mostly it was little old ladies like myself while some very savory looking "gentlemen" passed right through....On another flight, there again, I pulled over at the boarding gate...And there again, I watched and it didn't take very long to see, it was every 3rd person...Sometimes you wonder!
But, I have a flight the end of this month and I'm getting on that plane....Like Donna said, be aware of what's happening.....

I read that the person who would view the images is in a booth, no one else can see them. The images do not have a face visible, they don't see you, you don't see them.
There was mention of software that could be developed to read the images also.

I wouldn't like it but for peace of mind and it beats getting blown up in mid air.

Maybe the area concentrated on should be other countries, before they enter the US. If it's a US bound flight, why not let US screeners check the passengers? US Customs has the authority to stop people from entering their country before they even step foot on the plane and they're located in foreign countries. They must do some sort of profiling (ours does).

In my opinion one of the worst changes has been to restrict people with their checked luggage. This causes more passengers to carry more things onboard. After a while the person on the x-ray machine must see double. I say restrict hand luggage and have everyone empty the contents of their hand bags into bins for checking.

Donna, I told my family the same thing last week - pay attention to your seat mate.

While it's true that El Al is a small airline, the Israelis do not just check people who are boarding El Al. They check and profile for every flight out of Ben-Gurion Airport, most of which are not El Al.

Their profiling is also not exactly what we might expect. Due to bitter experience with terrorists from Europe and Japan, women as well as men, they must look beyond the "typical Muslim male".

"Due to bitter experience with terrorists from Europe and Japan, women as well as men, they must look beyond the "typical Muslim male".

I agree, don't just look at men as a threat. Women can put on a "fake" pregnancy stomach and hide explosives in the pouch. Look for people that look nervous. Terrorists usually travel in groups and sit in different sections of the cabin. The best prevention is to watch passengers at the gate area BEFORE they board the flight. I promise you if someone looks strange to me either they are going to be removed from the flight or I'm getting off the airplane. I'm counting on the passengers to be my eyes and ears on the flight.
Donna

Rosemary...When I saw you on television a couple of days ago...I found you to be pleasant and seemed to be informed about the topic you were discussing...however....

your constant posts to diss the airline industry and specifically my company has shown me that you are most likely a whiney, negative person...I've been putting up with the likes of people like you for over 30 years and you're not gonna be the first one to make me lose my temper and tell you what I really think of you...I learned the fine art of getting along with people like you is to let your comments roll off my back...like water on a duck...but frankly it is getting a bit old coming to this forum...a place I have visited for the last 12 years and seeing that you once again have found it necessary to bring up something negative against the airlines...How would you feel if every chance I got...I'd bring up all the negative things I could think of about book writing?

It's obvious you hate to fly or just hate the airlines in general cause every chance you get, you bring a topic about the airline industry here to this forum to diss it and see how many other Kt'ers you can get to agree with you...As most people have told you in the nicest way possible...we're doing everything we can to keep the skies safe so maybe you should think about taking greyhound in the future or driving your own car...Its apparent that whatever my industry does or doesn't do isn't goin to make you happy so I don't understand why you keep putting yourself in such a miserable position...

Like Donna said...we rely on our passengers to be our eyes and ears to strange behavior...we can't be and see everything that is going on inside the plane nor in the gatehouse before the flight boards...If you see something that bothers you by all means SPEAK UP!!

For the record, my primary concern is not with the airline industry (ie: airlines and their employees) but with the ever-growing loss of freedoms that we must endure to be passengers on a mass transit system.

I fly a *lot* and I have flown a lot and just in the last three years, I have seen a steady erosion of basic rights.

I know that airline attendants have a terrifically difficult job and my hat is off to them. I know that pilots do their best to ensure a safe and trouble-free flight. I know that baggage handlers have a crappy job that exposes them to all kinds of crappy weather and aches and pains.

What I do not understand is why the government is not paying attention to successful models of flying safety and emulating *them*.

In conclusion, my complaints are with the TSA and perhaps I should have been more specific in making that clear. If I felt the TSA were successful in making flying more safe for all Americans, perhaps I could better tolerate the ever-growing intrusions on my privacy.

I've also seen many elderly passengers manhandled by overzealous TSA agents and that makes me very, VERY angry.

Liz, I understand that your perspective comes from a very different place than mine, yet we *all* want the skies to be safe for the flying public. There's no disagreement there. My gripe is with the way it's being done.

thank you liz_ga...I don't post often here, but I have noticed the same thing.

If people don't like to fly they should just not fly. PERIOD.

(What's with posting the picture of the inspector making it look like he was going to do a rectal exam????)

ML (former National employee, older then dirt)

On a similar note, poor Joan Rivers was denied entry into the US so they're really tightening up now.

I'll put in a plug for you Liz while I'm here. The flights were smooth, even in gale force winds; they were on time and early; the stewards/stewardesses were very friendly and smiled a lot, also very patient. Love the seats that are like the first class seats. I hadn't flown that airline for over a decade on purpose, but now I will.

You have my admiration for what you do because I couldn't do it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Continental agent didn't like the way her passport looked

I love to fly and don't mind the extra security measures. It seems that I always do something wrong and get pulled over. A few weeks ago my big earrings set off the alarm.

comparing watermelons to pinenuts? How many international airports does Israel have? 1? 2? I imagine the big majority of flights go to one airport
but we do need to take a look and do the kind of stuff israel does. Can't imagine how HUGE a government department THAT would be. They training? maybe use military? dont forget.. TSA agents were hired off the street like you and me. they are just one big union. they were hired just like home depot does. need specialized training.

I don't have a problem with screening.. although the screener might run through the airport screaming! lol
low tech... bring on dogs... badstuff sniffing dogs

Very well said, liz.

Ron

My "civil rights" are not as important as my safety. The TSA should take any measures necessary to protect our flights. The ACLU can take a flying leap....

You are right on Liz. Thank you for speaking up. Negative, whiney people drive me nuts.

For the record, my primary concern is not with the airline industry (ie: airlines and their employees) but with the ever-growing loss of freedoms that we must endure to be passengers on a mass transit system.

There is an option: DRIVE.

I only fly a couple times a year, and generally only between Kennedy Airport in NYC (I live on Long Island) and Buffalo, where my Mom lives. It's about an hour flight, only 450 miles. No problem on my flights, I've been "patted down" by a female TSA agent, but other than that nothing unusual. I always remember to wear slip-on shoes for my flights.

I'm with Chisue and Rosemaryt. It scares me how complaisant people are, how they'll put up with almost anything without protest in the name of safety, and get angry at people who suggest there might be a problem. And without any proof that we *are* any safer.

Benjamin Franklin said, They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Do you all really not see that your rights are slowly being eroded and destroyed in the name of safety? You're giving up your liberty to obtain a little safety and as Benjamin Franklin said, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

This is not about whining or complaining or being negative.

This *IS* about being a student of history and observing that our basic way of life is being taken away, one right by one right. It's like the frog that is slowly boiled to death in the sauce pan. We're sitting in the pan and we don't even feel the heat being turned up.

As Benjamin Franklin said, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

If the TSA said that you'd now be strip-searched, and dressed in an orange jumper and handcuffed during your flight, would you agree to that too? Because that's the only way to insure complete safety from terrorists. Judging from the comments here, many of you *would* agree to that if it meant that you'd be safe. And that is a very sad thing.

I know stewardesses work hard and I know pilots are conscientious and well trained and I know they're all doing their best to keep us safe, BUT our rights are circling the drain now. There has to be a line drawn, *somewhere*.

I'm sorry I didn't make that point clearer in the earlier posts and I'm sorry that many here felt the need to reduce this to a personal attack.

Yes, perhaps I am "whining" over the fact that our basic human rights and our human dignity and that whole crazy constitution business is a house on fire and too many people are saying, "it's okay, as long as we're safe. Safety is all that matters."

NO. Safety is NOT all that matters. There are ways to fix the security problems at our airports that don't involve strip searching 87-year-old grandmothers and the like. That's what my post is about.

What an eye-opener this has been.

I will proudly stand next to Rosemary, Chisue and Joann. It saddens me to see how people are willing to give up their rights in exchange for such a false sense of security.

Freedom doesn't come cheap. Unfortunately we live in a world where people are not willing to pay any personal price for that freedom. Our forefathers would be ashamed of us. The circle is almost complete. If things don't change soon we will soon be under the total control of the government.

Welcome to America..... land of the meek and frightened sheeple.

We are raising a whole generation of children who think it is perfectly normal to be searched without cause. At their school, at the fair and at the amusement park. These people will next be flinging open the doors to their homes welcoming unauthorized search and seizure. You just have to convince them it's "for their safety".

There haven't been "stewardesses" for many many years...

...and please share the link showing that 87 year old grandmothers are being strip searched.

ML (a 60 year old grandmother who doesn't mind the body scan)

Wildchild, you touched on a subject that's near and dear to my heart: "We are raising a whole generation of children who think it is perfectly normal to be searched without cause."

So true, and so disheartening, especially when someone pipes up and says, "Well, if you don't have anything to hide, why would you mind it?"

I do my best not to fly anymore (I used to adore flying), but when I must, I always make a point of politely registering a protest to removing my shoes or being patted down. (I'm more understanding of the metal scan, which is very minimally invasive and which I do believe actually has a positive effect on safety.) I feel like it's my duty to protest, and especially so when I'm flying with my niece. I want her to understand that I do not think that these security measures are appropriate.

I guess I don't understand. Those of you who object to the current security standards- do you think that flying would be safer if no one had to go through any security? Really? Or do you just think that YOU shouldn't have to go through it, and others should? Who decides that? And are you really willing to risk your life (or your niece's life, or your son or grandbaby's life)on the arbitrary decision made by a security agent? What if that pregnant lady next to you on the plane is really a suicide bomber but she never got scanned because it was "too invasive" and her belly-bomb went undetected?

Maybe we could have 2 sets of airlines- one that HAS security and metal detectors and scanners and another one that has none of the above. I know which one I'll be flying on.

Flying on a commercial passenger jet is not a right, it is a convenience. You have many alternative transportation methods, car, bus, train, boat, that do not require you to be scanned. As others have said, if you feel your "rights" are being taken away, by all means get in your car and drive. As a citizen, I feel that the airport screenings are protecting something that IS a right, namely the right to life.

I fly a great deal for work; I have never seen an elderly person "manhandled", or anyone else manhandled for that matter, nor have I seen TSA agents being anything but professional and courteous.

The one thing I caution people who wave the banner of "rights" is "rights" are not always a right. Many people confuse privileges with rights. How often I see someone claim a privilege is a right and then there's the other crowd who claims a right is a privilege!

You forfeit rights in certain situations. This is not an eroding of the rights. You do NOT have the right to scream FIRE in a crowded theater. You do not have the right to falsely and maliciously malign someone's reputation, etc. You have a right to use your property, but not to the detriment of your neighbors. These are not eroding of rights.

You waive rights in certain situations too. Sadly we live in a country where people feel they have a "right" to trespass on someone's property burgle it and then hold the property owner liable should they slip and fall, be bitten by a guard dog or otherwise. Ironic, isn't it? It's the victim whose rights are violated but still there's the scream of I demand my rights!

Most rights are those of fairness. You have a right to drive if you meet the criteria. You can lose that right if you misuse it. You have a right to board the plane if you meet the criteria but there too, you can lose that right.

I haven't flown in over 10 years. My gripe with flying isn't from security, airline staff or the like but rather the cattle with whom I fly. Are you REALLY that starved that you have to whimper and beg for that bag of peanuts or pretzels? Is that "meal" the only food you've had in the last week and for that matter, can't you go 2 or 3 hours without putting a mini banana in your mouth? You really need $8 drinks? I think I'd rather they lit up a cigarette.

I'm not stepping too far in to the arguments over security. I do think we need to follow some of the measures used by other countries. My cousin has maintained for a long time (and I'm not sure that's he's totally facetious) that people should be required to fly naked. Of course people would still hide stuff under the wrinkles and in various orifices, but that's a separate issue.

Most of the time peoples' embarrassment is not other peoples' problem. Embarrassment is an emotion felt by the person. I can tell a joke to two people and one might be embarrassed while the other isn't. This proves that I cannot embarrass you, you make yourself embarrassed.

When I think of it, I'm less bothered with the scan than I am some guy feeling me up. If someone's going to grope me, shouldn't I have a "right" to demand a female agent do it?

I highly doubt someone is getting off looking at IMAGES. These are like cartoons in many ways.

I get tired of people flinging the term "rights" haphazardly. The other politically correct inflammatory term du jour is "profiling". Anyone who thinks people aren't being profiled daily has another thought coming. Isn't it a violation of rights to profile and only look for a male when someone reports a male-on-female rape? Heaven forbid we "profile" looking for an Asian when there's a charge that an Asian robbed a store, etc. Young males are profiled when it comes to insurance premium penalties. The spouse is always the #1 suspect in a murder. Let's not look at facts that most of the time that's whodunit.

We live in a reactive country. That's a fact and it's sad. Look at people. They run to the doctor and demand pills because they saw an ad on TV and want their share, whether there's any reason for it or not. It's their "right".

Joann, another pet peeve of mine are those receipt checks that some stores try to pull as you are leaving. I've actually walked past a lines of people waiting to have their purchases checked. Me? I walk on by.
When approached I smile and say have a nice day. If they persist and try to say something like "it's our store policy" I just grin and say I don't participate in that policy thanks.

If their security in the store is so lax that they have to stop people they've just seen pay for their goods at the checkout 3 feet away that is not my problem.

I've tried to explain to people that they are not required to stop unless they are at a "club store" where they wish to retain "membership" but they look at me like I've grown two heads. Oh well.

Love the security checkpoints at the fair. I have to play hide the knife to get past but the first display I see is the booth selling Ginzu knives. Right next to that is the tool booth with the huge clippers,rakes and shears. But people feel sooooooo safe because they think no one can get past the gate carrying a *gasp* pocket knife. LOL

I raised kids that question authority. One time DD asked (rhetorically) a sheriff's deputy outside the gate if she could bring a set of kitchen knives purchased at the fair back inside after going out to the car. He said "absolutely NOT". "But if I buy them I can carry them around with me until I leave?" "Of course" he said. "Then why can't I come back in with them?" "We don't allow weapons onto the grounds." he replied. Seriously!!!!

do you think that flying would be safer if no one had to go through any security?

No. We just don't believe it is really that much safer with the security measures. As things stand the reason that "crotch bomber" got on that plane had nothing to do with the security at the gate. he should never have been able to purchase a ticket in the first place. security was breached well before the actual boarding area. Had he been patted down they would still have missed the bomb. pat downs don't include crotch grabbing.

Terrorists stay one step ahead of security. Thieves stay one step ahead of security. That's what criminals do. While America is focused on the airports our trains and buses remain open to all.

I live near not one but two large international airports. Every single time they have been tested guns and other weapons have gotten through. Every time. Those drones at the gate are not the best and the brightest. They are overworked, overtired and just doing a job. they are not thinking about our nation's security. They are thinking about their next break. They are neither bad people nor good people. Just regular people with a pretty boring job.

Metal detectors only work on metal. There is plenty of weaponry available that can pass right through. Rules that you can't go into the overhead bin? Terrorists don't care about rules. They're ready do die for their cause, they don't care what some flight attendant tells them. That's about as silly as believing violent criminals care about gun laws. The law abiding and rule abiding will comply. The terrorists meanwhile will do their thing.

Some of us know how planes are put together. We know how easily panels and even seats can be removed. You want weapons? Anything can become a weapon in the right hands.

So it's not that we don't believe in security. It's just that some of us know how futile it is. We understand that most of these measure are merely feel good measures.

Every single time a new security measure is put into place the terrorists are working on another plan. Remember. Their goal is not to bring down a plane. It is to bring down America. American planes were used as weapons to bring down the towers. The people on those planes were just collateral damage to the terrorists.

The next act of terrorism may well not be on a plane. It will be the train, the bus, the amusement park, the circus, the mall.

Terrorism has already succeeded. They have stopped us in our tracks, caused great inconvenience and a false sense of security leaving us wide open to their next devious act.

If I'm on a plane I want big bad macho thug to have his bowie knife. He may be the only thing between me and the real terrorist. I want an armed citizentry. Who else is going to protect me?

I want an armed citizentry...

Wildchild, not sure about others, but that would guarantee I would never set foot on an airplane again.

This spoof video for "Perfectly Safe Airlines" was at our local news site this morning. The comments are interesting also.
I can see the point of where does all this "protection from terrorists" end. I think, though, that Americans are over protected in general, what with all the safety laws, health related laws, etc.

Here is a link that might be useful: spoof video

"Never mess with people's beliefs."

Some here *believe* that TSA airport security checks accomplish something useful (beyond providing employment for people with minimal skills). They don't.

If I had the choice of using an airline with TSA checks and one without them...no question. I'm walking directly onto my plane with all the other un-harrassed passengers.

Now, if you change that to a REAL security check, a la El-Al, I'd reconsider.

What TSA checks are performed on pilots, crew, cleaners, meal service personnel, baggage handlers, tarmac crew, mechanics, etc.? Just wondering. People with enough money to fly on private aircraft don't undergo TSA 'screening' either, far as I know.

If YOU wanted to do more than throw a fright into Americans, wouldn't you be able to find a way to actually *destroy* something? Maybe take a look at a container ship and its unchecked cargo? You could take out an entire port. Oh, there are thousands of opportunities, but why bother? al-Qaida is doing just fine accomplishing its goal of making everyday Americans feel afraid and *vulnerable*. (Payback?)

Are my rights being violated when I walk or drive and cameras everywhere record my activity?
Maybe. The alternative is to stay home. Forever.

Are my rights being violated when I open a bank account and they require fingerprints?
Maybe. The alternative is to keep money in a tin can or under the mattress.

The world IS what it IS, and the solution is simple: adjust or find another planet.
:-)

I completely agree with Rosemary and Wildchild (except for the armed citizenry part, LOL). I personally don't have much of a problem with the body scan, but in general I think we have and will continue to give up too many rights for a false sense of security. We are no safer than we ever were, and where do you draw the line? Cameras everywhere, personal tracking devices, etc?? I don't want anybody tracking what library books I check out, or what websites I'm visiting. Am I doing anything illegal or morally wrong? NO, that's not point. Don't think these things could never happen. Keeping us in fear of what's possible is a convenient way of people taking advantage of us for their own agendas.

I couldn't disagree more that the world is what it is and either accept it or leave. The fact that people feel this way scares the bejeezus out of me. I think that is exactly the opposite of what we should do! We should be standing up and protesting about the things we do not agree with. That's exactly the idea this country was founded on in the first place.

All of this is becoming way too 1984-ish for my liking.

Being that I'm hand screened every time I fly I would agree a lot of the screening process is nonsense. Steps that are SOOOO important at one airport are completely skipped at another. Some level of screening is useful to prevent weapons, etc. from going on planes but taking your shoes off and putting your liquids in a baggie is NOT preventing terrorists from getting on planes with explosives. It's a waste of time and money.

In my opinion one reason we're being subjected to being searched without cause and the like is because we're far too politically correct in how we are defending this country against terrorism. The "rights" of the enemy are so important we're rendered completely ineffective in fighting the terrorist enemy. We follow the old rules of war when the war has changed entirely. We give non-citizen suspected terrorists the rights of citizens instead of handling them like they were suspected war criminals. We pussyfoot around everyone for fear of offending somebody because of their ethnicity, religion or country of origin. Meanwhile terrorists have to be laughing their butts off because they have us completely figured out and we are clueless and powerless. We're running around like a chicken with its head cutoff spending money on ineffective security measures and ever more eroding our freedoms. I think the enemy is winning big time and most people don't even recognize it.

Who is taking away your rights? The TSA or the idiots who want to blow up the plane? If my rights (in this case privilege) are being stepped on, it's the idiots who won't allow me to fly safely who deserve the blame. The right to fly safely is the right I'm losing.

Did you guys complain when seat belts in cars were made mandatory? Isn't it the same thing?

Add my name to cynics post.
Very well said!

Ron

No, it's not the same thing at all. Seat belts work. Seat belts have been overwhelmingly shown to make people safer when they ride in cars. Something on the order of 2/3 of the people who are killed in cars are not wearing seat belts.

And, as I originally said, that is my objection - that we're asked to put up with everything from inconvenience to indignity with no evidence that any of it actually makes us safer. (And lots of anecdotal evidence that it doesn't.) And what scares me is that people fall for it.

We live in a reactive country

Indeed we do. That is exactly what these bogus "security" measures are. They are reactive rather than proactive which is why the terrorists go free while we stand in line at the airport.

Similar to DUI checkpoints. While all those police are busy checking out drivers and "randomly" (yeah right) asking for license and registration the real drunks are happily driving on other routes having been notified beforehand about the checkpoints. If I were a criminal it would be the perfect time to do the crime. Personally I want my cops out and about with their eyes on the streets, being proactive and alert to all, not doing busy work directing traffic through a series of cones.

If you don't like the body scanners, you surely won't like the mind-reading machines!!! Better not have any evil thoughts or you won't be flying!

Here is a link that might be useful: Mind-reading security