Ditra vs. hardibacker for tile floor

16 years ago

We recently redid our master bath, and put in a tile floor over hardibacker. I was shopping for kitchen tile and a sales guy at a tile store told me about Schluter Ditra, which I had never heard of. I went to HD, which sells it, and the sales lady said "yeah, it's good," but didn't know too many specifics. I went to Lowe's and the guy, who said he was an installer for years, said "I wouldn't touch the stuff. Tile is meant to be on a very solid base."

I've searched this forum and see a number of people recommend it, but since it's new to me, I'm looking for some "why it's so great" support. It costs about double what hardibacker does, but you don't have to screw it in a thousand places, and the labor savings (We're DIY-ing it) is extremely appealing to me. Is it too good to be true? Only suitable/beneficial for certain subfloors or applications? If it's as great as it seems, why doesn't everyone use it? Any downsides?

We've got a wood subfloor on 2x12" joists, 16" on center, over a crawl space.

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kcmo_ken

16 years ago

You will find that many different trades are wary of change. They used to install tile over mud beds, and if you look in old houses there are still many installations of this nature that still look fantastic. I am sure when they started installing tile using CBU that there were still plenty of tile installers that insisted on mudbed installations only. Niether one was wrong.

And along comes decoupling membranes. Truthfully they are not that much more expensive material-wise than hardie backer and screws. The thinset cost is fixed (you were going to thinset that Hardie backer before screwing it down weren't you), so you compare the Hardie and screws to the decoupling membrane and figure out how much extra it costs you. And then you figure out how much time it saves you, how much is your time worth?

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Comments (7)

oruboris
16 years ago
I loooove it. Really. Costs more, but saves a ton on time and labor. Was actually developed to mimic the ancient technique of laying tile on a bed of packed sand.

Why's it so great?

First, you can carry enough to do a whole room, in a single trip. Under one arm.

Second, no nailing or screwing the hardibacker. No skim coating. No hardibacker joints to contend with.

Third [and best of all], ditra 'decouples' your tile and subfloor. Less worries about the movement of the subfloor cracking the tile.

The guy at Lowe's is way behind the times. In an earlier era he would have complained about people using new fangled chimneys instead of a simple whole in the roof, which was plenty good enough for grampa, by golly...
jerry_t
16 years ago
Ditra is superior in almost every way.... it's the initial cost and a lack of knowledge by people who are supposed to know what they are doing.
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On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:43 PM, barredrock <....> wrote: [This message originated at GardenWeb] thanks for your input so far. this is what im doing now on the bathroom floor, see what you think so this is what im thinking. in this order, tell me what i am or aint doing right thanks 1. I believe it is 5/8 tongue and groove osb 2. 1/4 inch hardibacker 3. suntouch heated floor mat embedded in modified thinset and let dry how long before applying tile? 4. Do i need a leveler???? 5. ditra with unmodified thinset on both sides 6. tile ------------------------------------------ Answers Step Zero is missing. Step 1 is not enough. Step 2 is good. With expensive screws. Step 3 is good. Depends on the instructions on the bag. E.g. eighteen hours or so. Step 4 not unless you think you need it. Are these humungous tiles or puny tiles? Do you have a 6' level and what does it look like when laid on the floor in various directions? With thinset you can compensate easily up to a point.... but that all depends. Step 5 may be unnecessary, but it depends on Step 1 and Step Zero (what joists you have) Ditra is good for slabs that may crack a bit and widen horizontally. It might help also on Hardibacker or any other CBU on wood. But this has been debated a lot and never "proven" a.f.a.i.k. If your floor is springy, Ditra won't compensate enough to make it worthwhile. Step 6 what size is your tile? Have you tiled before? Do you know what slaking is? Etcetera... -- David
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Am I correct in assuming that I would need much more than 1/4 inch backer board to install slate tile? You sure would. First of all, you're just about right at L/360 for deflection along the joists. The longest those 2x10's could be without support would be about 10 feet. In order to do the slate, you'd have to sister each one of the joists with at the very least, 2x6's just to stiffen up the framing. Once that's done, you'd need a layer of 5/8" plywood before cement board, Ditra, or whatever. As for this statement: I believe you can also use Schluter's "Ditra" system over top of the hardiboard (or plywood but why not use cementboard). This system "decouples" the tile or slate from the joists and minimizes the chances of grout cracking. You wouldn't even need the hardi board, if you were going to use the Ditra. You could lay it right over the plywood. However, the floor MUST meet deflection standards, both along the joists (sistering them up) AND BETWEEN them (second layer of plywood), before installing it.
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Your first option is a bad idea because you should not tile over strips of wood, which is what your hardwood floor is. It is not stable enough. You second option might be better, or it could be just as bad, depending upon the material used for your subfloor. If your subfloor is strand or particle board - no good. You want plywood, screwed down into your subfloor, but not into your joists. If you are concerned about height AND want to do the best job possible, rip out the hardwood and install plywood + either cement board (hardi or other brand) or Schluter Ditra (Ditra only adds 1/8" AND provides a water barrier). You can get to exactly the height of your existing floor if you plan it properly. Use two layers of plywood if you need to.
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oruboris
16 years ago
Heh... meant to write 'hole' in the roof, not 'whole': dang lack of edit function...
m1shmosh
16 years ago
BTW, you can find it much cheaper online than the price you pay at Home Depot.
weedyacres
Original Author
16 years ago
My time is DEFINITELY worth the extra 60 cents a foot or whatever. That was the initial appeal. Does it work ok attaching radiant heat wiring to it?

And I'll definitely shop online to see what I can find.
joshuaphilyaw_yahoo_com
13 years ago
Ok, great info.: time vs cost vs elbow grease... But what I also want to know is how long does this product last. If I'm going to do a job, I'm going to do it right and it's going to last. I don't care about the time, cost, elbow grease if I know that my finished product will last 5 to 10 years longer. If that is the case, then I will spend more, work longer, and put more elbow grease into the job. Is there an average life expectancy? Any follow up data being accumulated? So that I can add this 4th variable into the mix?
I really like your other information though so don't think that I'm being negative. I've searched the internet to answer my lifespan questions, and have come up empty handed. Ditra/Hardibacker I really don't care.
Warranty's are great, but anyone w/ hands on experience and personal testimonies concerning lifespan?
Thank you
Josh

Ditra vs. hardibacker for tile floor

kcmo_ken

Comments (7)

oruboris

jerry_t

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Ditra vs. hardibacker for tile floor

kcmo_ken

Comments (7)

oruboris

jerry_t

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oruboris

m1shmosh

weedyacresOriginal Author

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