Replacing Heat Pump - Advice??

14 years ago

Hope I posted this question in the right place, if not please move to correct section...

I live in West Central Florida, 30 minutes north of Tampa. I'm looking to replace my 10 year old 5-ton Lennox heat pump. The compressor recently seized and is now grounded-out, at least that how it was explained to me by the technician who diagnosed the problem. Last spring, I had the my 3200 sqft house re-zoned and added a 2-ton HP (handles master BR & bath + bonus room = approx 900 sqft). So I'm looking to replace the old 5-ton HP with a 4-ton HP to handle the remaining 2300 sqft.

I have focused on selecting a reputable contractor first then equipment second.

I have narrowed down my search to 2 very reputable local contractors (NATE certified, A+ BBB ratings with many excellent referrals). I have listed below which models each one is recommending. Price wise, they are very close to one another.

FIRST Contractor;

Is recommending an AMERICAN STANDARD split system;

- Heritage 15 Heat Pump # 4A6H5048E10 (4-Ton / 16.5 Seer / Single Speed compressor)

- Ultimate Air Handler # 4TEE3F65B (4-Ton / Variable Speed/ 10KW strips)

--- Additional Services offered; Flushing of copper lines w/R11 & Nitrogen, fix and/or modify any duct work, also recommends adding additional return, will verify that proper static pressure is achieved.

SECOND Contractor;

Is recommending an BRYANT split system;

-Preferred Series Heat Pump # 226ANA048000 (4-Ton / 16 Seer / 2-Speed compressor)

-Preferred Series Air Handler # FV4CNF005T00 (5-Ton / Variable Speed / 10KW strips / UV Light)

--- Additional Services offered; Replacing all copper lines, fix and/or modify any duct work also recommends adding additional return, will verify that proper static pressure is achieved.

Now these are my questions and/or concerns;

- I believe (from what I have been told) that a 2 speed compressor will makes a system more efficient. By running a the lower speed more often that at high speed. Am I correct??

--- If so; I'm leaning towards the BRYANT system because of it has a 2 speed compressor. But my concern is that Bryant's website shows the Preferred Series compressors as ONLY being a single speed. I asked the 2nd contractor about this and he states that these are very new units (about 6 months old) and are based on the Evolution series compressor models (which are 2 speed). He also states that Bryant's website may not yet be updated with these newer units. Can anyone confirm this??

I'd like to make sure these are correctly matched systems? And I'm hoping these systems qualify for the $1500 Tax Credit?

Any and all advice is appreciated!

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Comments (6)

ryanhughes
14 years ago
Are they downsizing (likely correctly so) after verification that the system was oversized with a load calculation?

The American Standard is a nice system, and that air handler is certainly not to be labeled as a "4 ton" though it is a proper match with that system and likely needed to make the tax credit requirements. It is a large air handler, and its factory airflow setting should be adjusted to meet a 4 ton's requirements (otherwise could be loud blowing its factory set airflow).

The Bryant system model number is incorrect and should be 266ANA048000. I don't believe it's on the website yet since its a new model, so you were probably seeing the 265A single stage Preferred heat pumps when you were researching. The contractor is correct in a sense; these models were designed specifically to meet the tax credit requirements in the higher tonnages. I believe you were quoted the Legacy series 2-stage unit rather than the Performance series 2-stage unit, both of which are 2-stage.
baldloonie
14 years ago
The Bryant rates at 16 SEER, 12.60 EER and 9 HSPF. The A-S gets 15 SEER, 12.50 EER and 8.5 HSPF. Both qualify for the tax credit.

As for single stage vs 2 stage, gotta look at the specs. The Heritage 15 has some good latent (humidity) removal ratios, better than their 2 stage. Not sure about Bryant. The low capacity on the 2 stage with the exception of the Heritage 20 is 75-80% of high so not a real big difference. So there may not be much of an advantage of the 2 stage, especially if the price is higher.

How did they determine 4 tons? Bigger isn't better. Hopefully they measured the house and calculated.
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kelly there are three equally important parts for a homeowner to being satisfied when purchasing new HVAC. 1.correctly sized and quality HVAC equipment including thermostat, air filter, etc 2.a properly designed,sealed, sized, insulated ductwork system-if you have any hot/cold spots in home, now is the time to address. 3.the actual quality of install by dealer techs now to specs on equipment that homeowner should look for in new HP system. obviously, it should qualify for fed govt tax credit up to $1500. 15 SEER,12.5 EER, 9 HSPF full BTUs on both cooling and heating for rated size best matching VS air handler R-410a refrigerant(Puron) new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset scroll compressor preferred electronic demand defrost preferred staged backup heat strip thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature now to personal favorites Trane XL15i or sister company Am Standard Heritage 15 Carrier Performance 15 "H" model or sister company model Bryant Preferred 15 "H" model another brand worthy of consideration is Rheem/Rudd RPQL-JEZ series. IMO Good LucK!
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What happened to the Trane idea? 10 year parts and labor warranties a wise thing to get for peace of mind. The 25HPA542 is a higher efficiency unit than the 25HPA342 obviously. You say the 25HPA342 is quoted at a higher price? You should really be considering the reliability of both of these companies and their installation practices before the equipment. All in all, I think I'd go with the Performance 15 for more efficiency, especially if it's quoted at a lower price. The Performance 15 (Model # 25HPA542A30) with the Performance variable speed air handler (Model # FV4BNF005) is a discontinued matchup and gets 12.50 EER, 15.50 SEER, and 8.50 HSPF. The Performance 15 (Model # 25HPA542H30) with the Performance variable speed air handler (Model # FV4BN(B,F)005) gets 13.00 EER, 15.00 SEER, and 9.00 HSPF). Those are good numbers. Confirm model numbers with your chosen contractor before signing a contract. Good luck!
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Quote 1: Does not qualify for the tax credit, if that's what they're leading you to believe. Good outdoor unit, but it bothers me they are not including a variable speed air handler. Quote 2: This company may just have a lower overhead and overall lower prices. If your realtor has had good experience in the past, I wouldn't have a problem. But I would suggest stepping the outdoor unit up to the Amana line (subsidiary of Goodman), which is a more premium product to compare to the other units you've been quoted. In general I would avoid Goodman/Amana because I think there's better out there, but if it's what fits the space and qualifies for the tax credit, then it would be worth considering. The Carrier units that would qualify are huge physically outside. Quote 4: Sounds like they're oversizing the equipment--not a good thing. I would avoid. 800 sqft. in our area shouldn't require 2 tons, and if the old 1.5 ton did the job in the past, that's what I'd install. Also they are not informing you that if you register the units with Trane within 60 days of install, warranty should be 10 years on all parts. And yes, a humidifier should give an added sense of warmth to the air and hence allow you to set your thermostat lower.
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Well, it would be purchased through a local contractor who has signed up with Costco to provide the service/product. They seem reputable as far as I can tell. No complaints with the ROC. They are a registered Lennox dealer/contractor. We'd just get Costco pricing. We were told the Trane XL14c is about $2500 more. Doesn't seem worth it for this house. We've been comfortable in the middle of summer with the crappy unit we have currently despite it not working as well as it should. The Lennox dealer quoted a Honeywell 3000 thermostat which I see is not programmable (which we need). I didn't ask and don't see the type listed on the Trane quote but it does say programmable. Will need to find out about that. I don't know what a heat strip is.
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gtgoose
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks for the quick responses!

Both contractor didn't measure the house or use a Load Calculator, but both did offer to have it done if I really wanted one. I can understand their unwillingness to do a Load Calc test if they aren't guaranteed to get the job. They both used the the Square-Footage rule to come up the size of the unit. Both approximated about 550 sqft per ton.

I did download a Load Calc program called "HVAC-Calc Residential 4". I ran thru it and plugged in all my house data (room sqft, window info...etc), it took me about 2+ hours to go thru the whole process. Granted I didn't know how to exectly answer every question (being a non-HVAC guy), so I used the default setting for the items I was unsure about. I can see why most dealers would charge for this up front. ;-)

The HVAC-Calc program came up with a recommended 3 ton unit, but again, I not sure I have correctly entered all the data. If you guys would like I can post back the results, just let me know what figures you would like for me to post.

As for a series related question...What's the major differences between the Preferred and Legacy lines?? Is it worth approximate 500 bucks to jump up to a Preferred from the Legacy series??

Thanks again for your advice!
gtgoose
Original Author
14 years ago
BTW...Both contractor did preform an extensive inspection of my current setup. They inspected the attic to see how my current duct system is configured and both recommended to add and additional return or enlarge of one of the 3 existing ones.
ryanhughes
14 years ago
I would definitely suggest any modifications to the return air set up, because it is probably needed (whether they recommend it or not). I would not be surprised if the 4 ton is also a bit oversized (partially confirmed with your load calc), but only a load calculation will tell for certain. Oversized equipment does not run efficiently (so the 15 SEER doesn't mean much if it's running short cycles) and tends not to last as long. If either company got the job, I'd ask that a load calc be done.

As for the Legacy vs. Preferred 2-stage units, I do not believe there is a large difference. I don't see any uploads added to the Bryant catalog website for the 226A Legacy unit, but off the top of my head, I believe the differences are the following: compressor sound blanket on the Preferred unit (so likely resulting in a little lesser sound rating, i.e. quieter) and Evolution interface capability on the Preferred unit (which doesn't mean much if you have no plans on using Bryant's Evolution control system).
stampfree
13 years ago
Dear gtgoose, I am quoting a similar unit, you did not list prices above, do you mind giving some advice as far as price what you paid and if you were happy with system and did you go with the Bryant?

Replacing Heat Pump - Advice??

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