"pretty close to one of the most dangerous areas of the city, as well as some very affluent suburbs" even if the house had not been broken into, that right there would throw me off.

I'm the wrong person to answer because I am so not a city person. I must have my space and privacy! If I were in your shoes, I would be inclined to stay in the burbs, but maybe closer in to where you and the kids could take part in more of what the city offers. Really, that is our situation. We prefer to live outside the city and both drive into the city for our jobs and at times other activities.

tina

I couldn't do it! Listen, I understand that crime can happen anywhere! No place is 100% safe, and we all are savvy enough to recognize that no matter where we live, we must exercise caution and stay alert. Still, if I *knew* the statistics for crime were higher in one place than the other, that would factor very largely into my decision to live there.

When I was a young person apartment hunting I looked at a great place that was immaculate, charming, & close to the "cool" shopping district. Standing in the kitchen I got a strange feeling as I looked at the back door, which had a window with panes. My intuition told me something had happened there. I asked the landlord at that moment, "Has this place been broken into?" To his credit, he immediately replied, "Yes." That was it. I knew I couldn't rent this place no matter how cool it was.

But you know the particulars of your scenario. I don't. You have to trust your gut on this one. I do understand suburbs can be boring and feel isolating. I guess there's the option of using an alarm system, but there's also the cost of living with anxiety. Would YOU be living anxiously there? If not, and an alarm would raise your comfort level enough, maybe it's doable for you.

Break-ins can happy anywhere. Alarms may be a deterrant, but burglars can be in and out so quickly before anyone arrives. In our city, there were multiple targeted break-ins of boutiques that sold high-end jeans in "nice" areas, and they were in and out in about a minute wth the smash and grab.

Our neighborhood is urban but not too bad on crime. Our streets wind so it's harder to get in and out with only one major entrance. The higher value areas get more burglaries because it's easier to get in and out of there and people are careless about leaving valuables in view, especially in their cars.

Often times, burglaries may be targeted because the people know each other and know what type of electronics, etc. they may have.

I completely agree with gsciencechick - burglaries can happen anywhere. We live in a semi-urban neighborhood, a little enclave of older homes surrounded by some "rougher" areas, and not far from an area known to be fairly high crime. I love our house, love the area, love my commute (a mere 8 minutes!), so for us it doesn't bear worrying over what "might" happen - because it could happen, no matter where we were to live. But as has been pointed out above, only you know the particulars and paying attention to your gut instinct is important.

I think it depends on what you mean by "most dangerous part of the city" because for me that would be the deal breaker, not necessarily the house being burglarized.

I live in a reasonable sized "town" - it is actually our capital city but is really a tourist town. Back in the 50s I think, it became the home of a new experiment of subsidized housing and for a town its size, it has the highest per capita subsidized housing in the country. And with that, comes crime. And how lucky for us that these pockets of housing were distributed all over town so that there are many nice neighborhoods that border these areas. Unfortunately, these housing complexes are full of drugs and that spills over sometimes onto the neighboring streets of very nice homes. For the most part, the "danger" is contained into the streets where the projects are, but b/c they attract outsiders looking for drugs, there is occasional riff-raff who rob people on the streets and burglarize nearby homes. For that reason, when we were looking to buy our home, we narrowed our search to neighborhoods that didn't border any of these housing projects. I don't want to be afraid to walk in my neighborhood at night or let my kids roam the neighborhood alone (at appropriate ages). While it's not often (at least reported in the paper) that someone gets robbed or burglarized in those neighboring communities, but it does happen enough that I wouldn't feel comfortable and safe at all times.

That said, home burglaries can happen anywhere. Last summer, one of my friends who lives a few blocks away was burglarized in the middle of the afternoon on the last day of school. She was only gone for 90 minutes while she went to her son's 5th grade "graduation" party at our elementary school. In that 90 minute window of time, her home was broken into and everything of value was stolen. The police told her they were certain that they'd get more calls from our neighborhood as they figured the thieves would strike more than one house that day. Sure enough, another home reported a break in just a few days later, but they are weekenders here so they suspected it probably happened the same day.

Honestly, I don't really fear that type of break in. It's random and unlikely and rarely happens in my area, especially in my neighborhood. It's hard to have an opinion on what I would do in your situation. The burglary in and of itself wouldn't necessarily turn me off but the proximity to the most dangerous part of the city might.

Anele, you also imply that other crime is prevalent in nearby areas, and use the word "dangerous" to describe the vicinity. Indeed, burglary may happen everywhere to some degree, but violent crime does not. I'd be interested in those stats if I were you. Drive-by shootings and drug-related activities are not events that you want marking the landscape nearby.

On the other hand, the changing face of burglary has introduced a new term into the criminology lexicon-"home invasion." Increasingly, break-ins do turn violent and go beyond the mere pursuit of material goods. I'm not trying to be all negative and scary. You may not have anything to be concerned about at all! Crime varies so widely across the nation and within communities. This is not a one size fits all scenario. I think you're smart to do your homework!

Only you know how you would feel once you are there. We purchased our home from a drug dealer who was about to start a long jail sentance. (We didn't know until the closing table, when he had to leave to take our check to the Courts to cover his bail).

We asked him point blank if there would be any reason that the house might be 'visited' by any of his customers or suppliers and he told us no.

It took me many months to feel comfortable here. I never knew who might show up at the front door.

ML

One house having been broken into -- not an issue. A larger than average number of homes having been broken into or repeated break-ins of the one home -- that's a potential issue.

You can do a number of things to make your home more secure and less attractive to a break in. The most dangerous part of the city makes me more concerned about safety generally. Can't assess that from a few words on the internet; I'd look at crime stats, but also drive the area at night as well as the day. Would you feel safe walking the dog or to or from a neighbor's house?

I agree with 4kids, it's the bad parts that will eventually sprawl to your neighborhood (and maybe are already) that would be the deal breaker for me.

I agree with other posters that I would be more concerned about the possibility of violent crime in an area than burglary. I've never lived anywhere that didn't experience some break-ins, either of cars or houses. Even in my current neighborhood which has no through traffic and is at the top of a steep hill, my neighbor's car was broken into. I think it was my alarm company representative who told me that most household burglaries are committed by teenagers who live within two miles. I don't know if that's true or apocryphal, but it illustrates out that there are really no completely safe areas.

Will your kids be able to play outside? Where will they go to HS, since that is why the other people are moving? When the kids are a little older, say 12 to 14, will you allow them to walk a few blocks to a friend's house by themselves, or to places that aren't as boring as your suburb? What kind of enrichment do you mean to find in this new neighborhood...exposure to other cultures? Art museums? Tattoo parlors? Ethnic restaurants?

Lots of kids grow up well in urban neighborhoods, but you must look forward to what you will be comfortable with when your kids are fledglings. Of course, there are plenty of undesirable kids in affluent suburbs, too. And in the 'burbs, kids go everywhere in cars as soon as they turn 16.

I'm on the same wavelength as StinkyGardener.

You have a niggling feeling now. What would it take to push you into a non-anxious life if you moved there? A better alarm system? A metal gate around the house?

All I know is that when I get that first concern, it's awfully hard to shake, even when logically I know that, say, the alarm is wired, backed up and turned on. Think about how you've generally reacted to a gut instinct -- do you brush it off, do you frequently think "I should've paid more attention to that?"

(And: Have you talked to any of the neighbors near that home? Maybe asking them about their perceptions of safety there would be helpful.)

I live in a very safe small(ish) town north of Philadelphia. We have about 25,000 residents. Average household incomes are $80k+ and the neighboring towns are similar, single family homes and about the same if not higher, household income. There was a rash of burglaries in our town last year. Eight in just a few days, actually. In my little development of 60 homes, two or three were burglarized. It took a while, but the local police force caught the burglars. They were a couple of unemployed 20-somethings who lived in town. Were we all on edge because the burglaries were in the neighborhood? You bet. But my point is really that these things can and do happen anywhere. I don't think that would be a dealbreaker. These are the kind of burglaries were stuff is stolen but no one gets hurt. I think I'd have a hard time if there had been a home invasion with violence of any kind.

it's impossible to predict where a random breakin will occur...

but, the overall safety of the surrounding streets outside of my home and the school district would be the determining factor for me. every time we moved, we always focused on the areas that had the best public schools-- and always, these schools were located outside of the city.
if your plan is to send your kids to private schools, then i would think about which schools i want send them to and choose an area relatively convenient to the school/schools- for their sake and yours!!

Busybee, that's really good advice! Think "School district!" That's a winner.

Thank you all so much for your thoughts. I knew you would help!

RE: living closer to the city but still in the suburbs . . .that would be the ideal, but those areas are the most expensive in the state. Far, far, far out of our price range.

RE: instinct-- so hard. Believe it or not, I felt creeped out living here the first year because it was so quiet. (I was used to city noise.) It took me awhile to feel safe just because I didn't know it. When I went into this house we are considering, I did not get a creepy feeling. It was only after finding out the facts.

RE: "It could happen anywhere." I do agree-- I guess I am having a hard time because it had a 100% chance of happening at this home.

RE: violent crime-- this is unknown. There are not shootings in the neighborhood at this point. But, as many of you said, home invasions can turn violent. This is also what scares me the most.

RE: school-- yes, we do the same. We have to discount suburbs closer to the city with OK safety because often the elementary schools are good, but the high schools are horrible. However, in the city, there are many options for high schools. Magnet schools abound, so that is not my concern, though I know the better the high school, the better the safety. Most neighborhood high schools in the city are awful.

My husband wants to go see it one more time. I am feeling more anxious about it. My mom told me about her friend-- he lived in a mansion in a wealthy suburb (with dangerous parts to it) bordering the city. His wife was raped there. Ack. Horrible. But then, we know Aurora, Co. is a super safe city. I am so horrified by violence in our world.

:(

I might but it depends. My husband bought a townhome at a foreclosure years ago against my will (still not letting him forget). Although it was dirt cheap and large it was in a rotten school district and at the time teetering on a high crime area. It is now high crime. While husband was bragging about the great deal and low mortgage I had to look for a private school to send son to. There were no children in the neighborhood for my son to play with so there was always driving distances once he made friends in his private school. Twice I watched gangs steal cars out of the parking lot (one was mine) and there were a few burglaries (not mine). I did not live there long and I would not live like that again.

Now where I'm at now... we have had a few burglaries within the past couple of weeks. The average medium household income is 110,935 and we have great public schools, most all the elementary schools are A rated. In the summer we get the delinquents from other towns coming to our area to rip everyone off. Everyone here has big lots and the houses are spaced out which makes it a bit harder for neighbors to keep an eye on others property. The neighborhood patrol has put in a dent though. A few days ago a teen was shot when entering the home of a man and woman in their seventies. The man feared for his life and shot the intruder. He did not know the guy was a teen, he was scared, the teen is in critical condition. It was the 2nd attempt on their home in two weeks. During the school months we have nearly zero burglaries but the summers are becoming a problem. The shooting has been all over the news so I hope it discourages the punks from coming here as around well over half the people living in this community have gun permits. I don't own a gun but have a large gate, fencing, Rottweiler and security. Mostly I feel safe here, I think over all we have fairly low crime comparatively. I would not have a problem buying here if I didn't already own.

I agree that burglaries can happen in any neighborhood. I'd be more concerned about the crime on the streets. What city are you talking about? If it's West Phila., I could tell you a lot because my daughter and her husband bought a house there last summer to be near the university for her graduate school and his commute to DE. It's the same thing there, nice neighborhoods surrounded by poverty and its problems which unfortunately know no boundaries. The 3 local universities have their own security patrolling the streets in addition to the local police department.

The elementary school in her neighborhood is one of the best in the city because although it's a public school,it receives funding and remains affiliated with U of P's school of education. For high school most of the kids either go to private schools or one of the charter schools in the city. It sounds like you'd have that to consider too.

You need to investigate the stability of the neighborhood you're interested in. A friend of mine lives in another part of the city which in the past 10 years has seen a bit of a turnover. Absentee landlords have bought up real estate and rented the houses or converted some of them into apartments. My friend complains that the tenants, not having a vested interest in the property or the neighborhood, have let appearances slide, and she's worried
about property values.

Living in the city has its pros and cons like anyplace else. My daughter's enjoying being close to so many things you don't get in our rural area. There are forums you can find on line to inquire about specific towns and you can ask about the safety issue there.

I think if you like the vibe of the city, you also have to deal with potential bad vibes too.

I would be more concerned about schools for my kids than a random burglary. They can happen anywhere - maybe since this house has been robbed, odds are in your favor that it won't happen again!

Often, living in the city gives you the opportunity for educating and making your kids more aware and more personally vigilant about their own safety. Many crimes against kids happen in quiet sleepy neighborhoods and towns where people least expect it.

I would have a security system and a big dog - both excellent deterrents when robbers are casing a neighborhood.

You have to look at what's going on now and which way things are trending. Some "bad" parts are being gobbled up by redevelopment around them. As for the 100% chance comment, it reminded me of what realtors tell you where I live -- there are 2 kinds of houses: those that have had termites and those that will have them. The one that has already had a problem is really no more or less likely to have a repeat than any other house is of being hit.

One other thing to consider: you don't know what made that house a target in the first place. Look at the grounds. Do they block views of doors and windows from the street and do the bushes give someone places to hide. Is it in a location that is easy to scout? Did the previous owner have expensive cars, fancier than average things inside the house where they might be viewed from the street, spend lavishly at places where workers might notice and pick up a name from a credit card, have guns, work in a profession that might mean there would be drugs in the house (doctor, pharmacy rep, etc.) or have a resident with prescriptions for street attractive drugs. There could be other factors too, many of which would not translate to you. If there is a landscaping issue, you can address it with changing plants, lighting, even security cameras.

And a large dog or two who will bark when strangers approach (not a mellow couch potato) will keep most intruders at bay. I've seen articles listing what intruders have said would deter them. Dogs were at the top of the list.

Two of my previous homes were burglarized while I lived in them. We kept living in both because we loved the homes and urban city neighborhoods.

As long as I can afford insurance...that's what matters.

anele, I'm a city person and dislike suburbs. For many years, I lived less than a quarter of a mile from the wealthiest neighborhood in one direction and one of the worst about half a mile in the other. I was very happy there. I'd have been out to the dreaded suburbs in a flash if I had been a parent. In the city, public schools are no longer an acceptable option. Tuition for private schools isn't cheap. Even if the property tax is higher in better school districts, it's deductible and probably less than the $10-16K per year in tuition.

Any place can be broken into. Several friends in the most expensive suburbs in the area have been hit. I now live in a nearby city in a significantly better neighborhood with a very low crime rate. Yet shortly after we moved in, my car with active lock and alarm was stolen from a detached garage. It was a hot little number that had been one of the top 3 models targeted for theft for several years running. I now drive an old lady small SUV and have had no more problems. Love the neighborhood and the house. I'd still be out of here if I had kids.

You'd need to do research about the area. The rate of owner occupied homes versus rentals is a big, big factor in safety. The more transient a neighborhood, the greater chance of it being drug infested, thus more violent and prone to burglaries.

However, if it's just run down, don't discount it. Urban (and suburband) redevelopment happens all the time. The key is how stable is the area. Our old home was in the 'bad' part of town, but it was also within an established area...more than 70% owner occupied. We never had a break in, and the worst that happened in 10 years was a couple of car break ins. In the last few years we lived there, homes were being reno'd and some older homes and a vacant lot were rezoned to high end offices closer to the highway. Property values increased and crime decreased.

So definitely look at police reports-look for the types of crimes committed. Property crimes versus crimes against people and drug arrests. Look for the sales figures to see what kind of turn over is in the surrounding areas. Then just realize we live in a different world now, and we have to be vigilant of our own surroundings. Don't get a gun, get a dog!

I wanted to reply when I saw you 1st posted.. excuse me blowing in without reading everything.

Go to Facebook & find pages for the town you're looking in; they usually post break ins on the police FB pages. I don't care where you go; no place is immune to it with the economy we're in. There are a lot of break ins in my area & surrounding towns; cars at shopping centers; in drive ways. A house on my street; someone went in & stole change. Someone even came in my front door & took a GPS off of my desk while I was in the laundry room 50 feet away; the one time my son left the front door unlocked. They must have heard me; looked up & saw laundry door open; grabbed the GPS from my desk & split because all I heard was the door close; nothing else was taken- have an expensive Nikon 4 feet from the GPS.

Find the FB page to see how much crime is really posted; then decide. While you're at it; like the police FB page for your own town.

Goodness . . .thank you all so much. I knew you would help and you did. I considered your different perspectives-- the idea of getting a "feeling," (which I did just based on the photos even though they were lovely), thinking about it within the context of the bigger picture, etc.

I did what you suggested and researched the crime very specifically in that area using different methods. According to the police reports, it is a higher crime area than most . . .not as bad as some but far worse than others. The point about "home invasion" vs. just a robbery really hit home, so to speak. I decided I would be fine in many areas of the city-- not afraid to live there-- but esp. with the kids, not a chance I want to take in that location and that house. Some of you asked if it could be improved (safety) but from what I read, a big factor is that it is by a busy street, so a getaway is easy.

We decided against that house thanks to your help, and are now in the process of trying to get another that we love and have far fewer safety concerns.

Thank you so much!!!!

Let's put it in this perspective. Countless thousands of homes have been broken in to and I would guess almost ALL of the people who own them would stay in their own home. Crime is a way of life in good locations and bad. All you can do is put in a really good security system. My family was robbed and we remained in the home. Statistically burgler's
do not repeat a crime in the same spot. I would move in a heartbeat.

I always check the sex offenders registry too when I'm researching areas for clients. Granted it's a different kind of crime, but when you have kids....(need I say more?)