This was discussed on a previous thread. Scientology as an organization sounds mind controlling. The description of how they delve into your deepest private thoughts/responses then bank them for use to control you..creepy. I just wish the world would quit calling it a religion. It is the creation of a 1950's science-fiction writer. It is so not a religion, it isn't even enough of a spiritual guide to be called a cult. Like his books it is a creation of FICTION and to give it any more credit than that is just silliness!!!

Why would God save Katie Holmes and not any of the other mothers or fathers who don't want their kids attending SeaOrg? Why didn't God save Lisa McPherson from death at Scientoloty hands? Do you really think that's the way it works?

Well, let's hope she's "saved." Saved from a life that was not of her own making. One hopes that she and Suri are on a better, more life-affirming path.

Here is a link that might be useful: What's Next?

We have freedom of religion in our country, and if someone wants to practice Scientology or any other religion, that is a private decision and their right. I am not one to judge.

Now if she was in a controlling relationship, that is another story, but, again, none of my business.

Katie Holmes made a choice for herself and her daughter. Give her the credit.

Katie is very close to her parents. I think years of their disapproval finally made her realize what was happening in her marriage was not healthy.
We can make all kind of excuses, but it is just weird that he has now had three wives only up to the age of 33.
I think though that this shows how creepy he is. There are other famous couples invloved in Scientology who have been married for years.

I'm late to the party. I don't post often on this forum lately, ( I am mostly into gardening) but I've been on the Garden Web for about 8 years. Would it disturb you greatly to know that I am a Scientologist?

Scientologists are regular people who like decorating and gardening, raising kids, and surfing the net, just like you all. They are all so different from one another, as to socio-economic status, country that they live in, hobbies, professions, etc., etc. I think that what they have in common is the desire to better themselves and others and to become more knowledgable, more aware, and hence, more able to change things around them for the better. I've been involved in it for 37 years, and many family members are also involved. I've been on staff, been a "regular" non-staff person, and have studied a very large percent of the material in the subject., from bottom to top.

I've raised a wonderful son (now 20) in Scientology, and have had the wonderful fortune to have a home bursting with his friends, mostly Scientologists, and others who are not, but who have attended his school, which isn't religious but teaches the study skills formulated by L.Ron Hubbard. Aside from Scientology changing my own life in such a positive way, my biggest joy from it has been my ability to help others, especially my son, to lead a happy and productive life. My son and his friends are lively, warm, intelligent, caring kids. I was able to skip right over the terrible twos and teenager rebellion, just by reading and applying the data found in the book Child Dianetics. NONE of my son's friends have any interest what-so-ever in touching street drugs, or in getting involved with alcohol beyond a beer or two or a glass of wine if that. I know, because I am friends with all of them and talk openly with them as well as I am friends with the parents. These are productive, happy kids. My son has been helping other kids from a very early age. Teacher's have told me since he was 6, that they could always depend upon him to be a leader and help them out with other kids. He became a football coach at the age of 14( for younger kids) At 17 he was coaching adults in the ghetto. It did not phase him at all that some of the players brought guns to practice. He was able to develop good communication with them. I'm really proud of him, as you can see.

When the news came on about all this Tom stuff with the usual tabloid junk, my mom was here and had the TV blairing while my son and I were eating dinner. When he heard the part about the "threat" of 6 year old Suri having to join the "Sea Org", Or being "indoctrinated" he laughed so hard he got me on a roll too. I think if you experienced reading negative, laughable propaganda about yourself, you too would really question any other story in the news. To me, because of what I hear about myself, I assume pretty much 90% of what I hear on the news is fiction. It is sad to me that there are those who take the news literally. Or out of context sound bites. And listen to the "experts" that are called upon to tell the "inside" dope, but its the same tired "expert" each time. I have seen news stories on other topics that got people really mad at someone, and it turned out later, there was important context that was edited out.

To me, I think I don't really know a person or a subject unless I meet the person myself or study the subject myself (uh, not the cliff notes or reviews, but the first hand material) It helps me when I meet a new person, if I have negative thoughts, to have an open mind and to realize that each person has their own history, and their own story. But it wasn't always that way with me. So I don't really fault others for thinking the way they do, but I would encourage you to take a look and see if maybe you are falling victim to the tabloid culture. We don't really know that much about Tom or any movie star, really, if we don't know them personally. But controversy, just like sex, sells. The real sexy data on this subject is available in the library- the actual books written by L. Ron Hubbard. That is the best way to find out about it with no social pressure. Just read it and if it works for you, it works. If it doesn't, then it doesn't. And you don't have to become a Scientologist either way.

And I am not trying to toot my own horn or say that I am perfect, because I am not. I'm just a regular person like you all, and I make mistakes sometimes. I've over-reacted to neighbors, blown my top, I'm not a good driver. People swear at me all the time when I drive. Some times I am not as nice to my mother as I should be. I've lost my temper with my husband and my son. I may have even said something stupid on the Garden Web from time to time. I am sure there are a million mis-deeds that I could list. But the point is, I care and I think we could all do a better job on our attitudes towards others. Isn't it similar to decorating? There are things that you read or hear, and pass on, then later you examine them for yourself and find out maybe it isn't really that way in real life.

I hope you all won't be mad at me for saying all this. I enjoy the Garden Web, and the advice that I've gotten from many of you though the years.

Best,

Chinchette

WHy would anyone be mad Chincette? Thank you for sharing your story.

tina

Chincette, while I am not a scientologist, I agree completely with you on how the media twists stories.
I don't believe much of what I read either.

Thanks too for sharing about yourself.

Hi Chinchette, I am another media skeptic. However, I lived just north of Clearwater during the time when Lisa McPherson died in Scientology custody and there's not really anything you could possibly say to make me agree that your religion is a benign presence in that community. You sound like a very nice person, but I am not going to lie about this and pretend that I think Scientology is anything but a cult.

We have many different belief systems among the GW members and while obviously, we don't agree with one another, we can respect each other and be kind.
Having been on the receiving end of scorn, sarcasm and outright loathing ( you are scary, etc) I don't think this is the place for philosophical discussion of any kind of depth.

"I don't think this is the place for philosophical discussion of any kind of depth."

Couldn't agree more.

"I don't think this is the place for philosophical discussion of any kind of depth."

With all due respect ladies, I couldn't disagree more!

I think any sort of conversation can unfold anywhere...the car shop, the water cooler, the front lawn, and certainly a chat room forum! What I don't think this is a place for is "...scorn, sarcasm and outright loathing..." when people are conversing. I don't think anyplace is, for that matter. Certainly though, there is a learning curve around tactfully, respectfully discussing whatever comes up. I'm not suggesting, "anything goes!"

Chinchette, I admire your self-awareness and honest appraisal of your shortcomings. In my view, that is a wonderful strength. I so respect people who are forthcoming and accountable about their limitations!

As for your faith practices, I'm sure that there are many ways to practice Scientology, just as there are many different approaches to Christianity. Interpretation and emphasis differ among even mainline Christian faiths. We simply can't know what it's like for ALL Scientologists based on what we see in the tabloids.

Thank you Stinky and Bumblebeez and Tina. I think that the more people really get to know each other honestly, the harder it is to dislike or bash. What's that saying about "There is so much good in the worst of us, And so much bad in the best of us, That it ill behooves any of us, to find fault with the rest of us."

Have I ever violated that, EVER? Of course! Is it something to strive for? I think yes, for sure! : )

You know, it's because of people like you that
....
..........
...........
...................
We have lots fewer posts going ugly these days. God (choose your own) bless the peacemakers.
Hugs,
Marti

Chinchette, thanks for sharing your story. FTR, I didn't read tabloids when I learned about Scientology. A lot of people didn't either.

Oakley, I am using "tabloids" in a very broad sense. My point was that media coverage is not the way to learn about a faith group, but some feel satisfied to draw conclusions based on what they see on TV or read at the grocery checkout. (Not saying you do!).

I know as a Christian, I've been very disappointed when others drew conclusions about my faith based on some of the "news" stories that have been put out there. We've all heard the outcry at times, "Yep, there they go again! Those So-called Christians are a bunch of hypocrites and ---!" Fringe activity may need to be reported, even on CNN, but unfortunately there will always be those who surmise that this behavior is representative of an entire faith tradition!

Oh, I also meant to say I love that quote, Chinchette!

"There is so much good in the worst of us, And so much bad in the best of us, That it ill behooves any of us, to find fault with the rest of us."

Truer words have never been spoken!

Google is your friend :-)

I think most religions are a cult. And I think that there are good and bad people in any group. We shouldn't generalize. Some people are involved in religion to better themselves as a kind hearted contributor in the world, while some people are only interested in being kind to their own kind, or patting themselves on the back bc they went to church. Your post, Chinchette, was impressive. And I absolutely agree with Stinky - thoughtful, considerate discussion is a good thing!!

No "all religions" are not cults. Look up the definition. There is a HUGE difference. Just because you personally are not a believer it does not make everyone who is, in a cult. Religion is not about YOU. It is about God. It is about a relationship between you and God. If you are involved in a faith belief that does not stress that relationship, does not give you opportunity to improve and deepen that relationship you may be in a cult. Scientology is a New Age belief system that was MADE UP, by a SCIENCE FICTION writer. It has NOTHING to do with God. All things are not equal and of the same value. That is just a fact. If saying it out loud offends you, you need to work on getting over yourself!

My goodness, Arcy, settle down. I never said I didn't believe in God, now did I? And I never said that I was involved in any religion. So get off of your high horse. I don't believe in narrow-minded, intolerant, provincial, exclusory and hypocritical religion. I do believe in God and being a good person, and God and I have a great relationship. Your nasty attitude rather proves my point. And BTW, here's the definition of "fact" -- something that actually exists; reality; truth. All belief systems are based on faith.

What a great post, chinchette, thank you for going out on a limb, especially after the vitriol aimed at your belief system. And arcy, to an atheist like me, all organized religions ARE cults, ones designed to close your mind and open your wallet. And your post certainly proves the former.

sandyponder

you need to work on getting over yourself!

Can hardly believe I just read that. Why not choose to tolerate another person's point of view, no matter how vastly it deviates from your own? In matters of spiritual belief - something that is deeply personal - it seems all the more important to choose tolerance and a "live and let live" attitude, because nobody's changing any minds here. I may not agree with what betsyhac had to say, but at least she prefaced her words with "I think", so it's nothing more than her own personal opinion.

Most people believe in what they were taught as children. If you grew up in the Middle East you probably have different beliefs than if you were born in Europe, the USA, etc. Of course, most think that theirs is the one true religion.

Of course, most think that theirs is the one true religion.

Yep. And the inability and/or unwillingness to extend that same grace to others is the root of unspeakable human suffering throughout history. Hard to fathom that that is what God - or however one chooses to define the spiritual deity - had in mind.

I don't believe in narrow-minded, intolerant, provincial, exclusionary and hypocritical religion. I do believe in God and being a good person, and God and I have a great relationship.

Betsy, You could not have spoken my sentiments regarding religion or my relationship with God any better. Yes it is a very deep and personal choice for everyone and I think its very sad that tolerance and respect for another person's point of view is not being shown here Arcy.

FWIW if you read the definition of the word, all religions could easily fall into this category:

Cult: a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

And the inability and/or unwillingness to extend that same grace to others is the root of unspeakable human suffering throughout history. Hard to fathom that that is what God - or however one chooses to define the spiritual deity - had in mind.

Amen to that, Sunny. Amen to that.

My friend who has no idea I'm on this board sent me an email this morning. A very reputable blog had her cousin listed as being in the "hole" outside L.A. It's a prison camp that Scientology has.

Betsy, you just defined my "religion" as well, as well as the issues I have with certain other so-called religious people (I am referring to people I actually know, not anyone here). Maybe you, lukki, and I (and any others who'd like to join -- because we wouldn't be exclusory or intolerant) should form our own cult. ;)

The founders of AA first thought of making it a strictly Christian organization. Then they figured that would be way too exclusionary. Now it's a group where people of all (or no) faith gather to talk about living in a spiritual manner.

It's pretty cool having a group of Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Arabs, agnostics, atheists, etc., getting together for the common good.

Oakley--- sorry to hear that...

Tony Ortega blogs for The Village Voice about Scientology.
Depositions are wonderful sources of information.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fun facts about scientology