So I seem to have been able to do all that I wanted to know how to do. Now for some comments... I like knowing how to change the font, but I agree, I would use it rarely. What I find myself wishing I could do on a fairly regular basis, is putting something in italics, underlining a book title, putting a word in bold. As for the color, something else I would rarely go to the trouble of using, but again, I would like to know how to for that rare occasion when I might. Such as in a Christmas greetings thread or something like that. Most of the time I would not take the time to do that. As a matter of fact, I use the firefox browser and if you notice when I tried to use the color tags, I thought it didn't work. That is because firefox limits html commands when using their browser and I didn't see any red words. I realized that you did and I went and used Internet Explorer and sure enough, I saw the word red in red ink. Strangely, I didn't see the other effects. That was confusing and I have no idea why. BUT, in the browser that I use every day, the commands I wanted to use work fine with the directions you gave me. So I am all set. The thing I wanted most to do and will probably use more frequently than the others, is posting a photo inside the post. I used to use Tinypic, but at some point something changed and I was pasting the command they were providing and it still wasn't working. So these directions worked for me. I compared the command you were suggesting to the command Tinypic provided and they were different. But I think I would still use the Tinypic site to upload the photo and then just change the command where needed. Finally, on Nan's concern about resizing the photos. I assume that the concern is the time it takes to open a thread for someone on dial up when one of the photos is oversized. So the photo I posted above, is oversized? If that is a problem, I will go back and review the directions for resizing. Hope that helps. :-)

First, let me say that I'm not a commercial vendor or business. I have more varieties & seeds than I can grow and offer my extras at a cheap price to cover shipping, special envelopes, expenses, ebay & Paypal fees, etc. What I make is miniscule--it's almost a break-even in small amounts, and considering what it costs me in supplies & utilities to grow them til harvest, it may even be a net loss. Any money goes towards food on the table & my mother's Rx's or supplies. Without getting too personal here, she's diabetic & mid-level Alzheimers and I have more than 1 handicap/disability. As many here may know, I've given away many seeds for free in the past, both here & other places, as well as sometimes trading & bartering. This is just a way to get some harder to find seeds out there to people to grow, some aren't easily available commercially, (Olive Hill was great this year!) so it's a good cause both ways. I've distributed probably 20+ packs for free this year at the Buffalo-Niagara Tomato Tastefest party, in addition to donating 60 packs to the event as winner prizes, some still unclaimed (actually 50 packs--I won Smallest Tomato category! Anybody that won please contact me by e-mail if you still haven't picked your choices--yes, YOU get to choose 10 packs!) Anyway, generally 20-30 seeds per pack, even more for some small seeded varieties... about 300 tomato varieties, it increases every year. While I often use generic descriptions, I also try to include personal comments on how they did or what I thought of them. Pics are available for most so you know what they should look like, what the seeds came out of. Many are not bagged but I use some unique practices like isolation, distraction planting, timing, location/selection, etc. Commercial places don't bag blossoms, though they do grow larger #'s of plants to reduce their chances of crossing. I actually make it very difficult for crosses to occur. You really have to throw the plant distance/closeness theory out the window and think outside the box on this one--I've actually found that others that plant with sufficient or great space between plants often get crossed seeds and I don't. Plus I often regrow my seeds the following year to insure what it's supposed to be, not just germinating to check leaf type. If you feel you've got a variety that isn't what it was meant to be, I encourage everyone to e-mail me at matermark@gmail.com to let me know about it and I'll pull it and make good on it. And if I grow a variety from well known commercial sources that you've already mentioned here, and it's not correct, (yes, it happens many times, from many you've recommended above), I come right out and say it's suspect (say, PL Watermelon Beefsteak or WinsAll) & don't offer it, pull it or replace it. I usually outright discard seeds and try another source if it doesn't seem like what it should be, instead of selling those seeds or giving them away as "bonus" seeds like some often-recommended-here companies do--ie: Azoychka bonus seeds many are familiar with....plus you know what I've went through re: Dr. Lyle... Yes, many places charge shipping or handling charges that often are higher than the seeds... plus many people compromise what they grow because of high S/H costs incurred from ordering from multiple places. I've found ways to cut those costs considerably, so I pay the shipping. I don't really have any minimum order levels though try to stay in nice rounded numbers like $3-5-10, and have even worked with people with smaller quantities of each variety, of course it takes much more time & is more expensive for me to pull 20 packs of just 5 seeds than 5 packs of 20 seeds. And you don't need to be an ebay member either, it's just that that is my most common, easily accessable outlet, and I use it in the spring mostly, when I have all my seeds together, ready to decide which to plant. I also put my extra plants on craigslist in May for a buck or 2. So, once again, I'm not a business, and this isn't an ad or an offer--I'm an enthusiast. Like I said, if someone is looking for just 1 variety or so, I often help at no cost or SASE if it's something I have enough of and easy to get to & have time. Hope this helps. Mark, who must harvest peppers, take a "non-compliant" diabetic mother shopping for Halloween candy "for Trick or Treaters" she says, carve 2 Atlantic Giant pumpkins in the cold, and hopefully finish planting my garlic. Still no frost yet here in the metropolis named after "beautiful river", but expecting one tonight, almost a month later than usual...

Hi Dan, Thank you very much for your help. I tried entering the same items again using the wizard. I did it in the order shown. The first thing was, "Page title. (appears in the browser title bar)" I typed in, "Plants & Flowers" here. Next, I entered a heading. I picked size 7, font- brush script, a red color, and centered, and typed in, "Plants & Flowers" The third thing I put in was an image. I browsed for a picture, picked height, width, alignment and centered. Next was paragraph. I picked size, font, color, and centered, and typed in, "Check availability below." Last item entered was table. To keep it simple, I made it just 2 columns, and 2 rows. Starting at top of page, what I wanted was: Heading Image Paragraph Tables What I got, in preview, was, from top: Tables Image Paragraph Heading The code came out like this: (table width="100%" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" border="2") (tr)(!-- Row 1 --) (td)Â (/td) (td)Â (/td) (/tr) (tr)(!-- Row 2 --) (td)Â (/td) (td)Â (/td) (/table)(!-- Created with CoffeeCup HTML Express 5.0 --) (!-- http://www.coffeecup.com --) (HTML) (HEAD) (TITLE)Plants & Flowers.(/TITLE) (BODY BGCOLOR="#FFFFFF" TEXT="#000000" LINK="#0000FF" ALINK="#FF0000" VLINK="#990099") (CENTER)(IMG SRC="Blue Hydrangea.jpg" BORDER=0 ALT="" HEIGHT="222" WIDTH="326" ALIGN="ABSMIDDLE")(/CENTER)(P>) (A HREF="")(/A> (CENTER)(FONT FACE="Times New Roman" SIZE="3")Check availability below. (/FONT)(/CENTER)(P) (CENTER)(FONT FACE="Brush Script" SIZE="7" COLOR="#CC3300")Plants & Flowers(/FONT)(/CENTER)(P) (/BODY)(/HTML) To answer your question, Yes, I do have the log-in and PW. Thanks for taking a look. John

I had let this slide for months, but this thread has me thinking about it again. Here's something I found on a "contractor talk" forum: "try using solid timber for the shelf with metal dowels drilled and resined 3/4 of the way into the shelf and as deep as you can go into the studs " and "I have installed a few of these in the past that were pre-made. They used large 8" L-brackets that were 2-4" wide installed behind the drywall, then a hollow slit in the shelf allowed it to slip over the bracket." here are some photos from the thread: This is Ikea's LACK bracket. DH suggested we buy some LACK shelves and make our own shelves. Maybe... and here's a pictorial explanation of what I thought would work (looks like it CAN work!) More from the same thread: He says, "I've used the same method as above. Drilled 3 holes in the shelf and then into solid corresponding studs. Dry fit with threaded rod, then used poly glue to attach." more advice, "All thread works very well. 3/4" all thread works real well. Drill a 3/4" hole in the center of the stud and pound the rod in like a nail. the treads bind up with the fibers and hold incredibly well. Then just adjust the rod to be nice and square to the wall. Drill a 7/8" hole in the solid stock shelf that you previously scribed to the wall. Pump a couple of squeezes of construction adhesive in the holes and a thin bead along the back edge. And press it on to the wall. Brace it level. Keep a scrap block and a piece of all thread on hand to practice how much adhesive to squirt in the holes. Too much and you have screwed the pooch big time. Not enough, and well, that sucks too. " "Level line at the top of the shelf. Take a hammer and nail and poke around after your stud finder gives you the approximate edges of stud. You can easily and accurately locate the edges of the studs with a nail. Drill the hole in the middle. Then mark the edge of the shelf after the all thread is in place. " "Personally, I'd counterbore the drywall and put a solid packer between the shelf and each bolted stud as well. " I linked that thread below. Now here's another one, woodworkers this time: Question We are in the process of installing floating shelves in a kitchen. They are 60 inches wide, 12 inches deep, and 1.5 inches thick in solid oak, so they are pretty heavy. They need to be able to support plates and glasses, so assume a fair amount of weight. The surface is drywall and the wall is finished, not open. Our tentative plan is to use 12-inch x 5/8 inch steel threaded rod to support the shelves by screwing the rods about 3 inches into the studs, and then sliding the shelves (with holes drilled in them to correspond to the rods) onto the rods. We also planned to use Liquid Nails inside the holes in the shelves. There are 3 studs behind the shelves that we can use to anchor the rods. Has anyone done a similar installation? I am most concerned about being able to drill perfectly straight into the studs, and also perfectly straight through the shelves (to a depth of 9 to 10 inches). We have a drill guide and a 10 inch Forstner drill bit that is 7/8 in diameter to make the holes in the shelves. What kind of drill bit would you recommend for drilling the studs? Finally, I am aware that there are blind shelf supports available at Lee Valley and Hafele, but unfortunately they are not long enough for this application (only 5 inches long, not enough to support a 12 inch deep shelf that has to take a fair amount of weight). Forum Responses (Cabinet and Millwork Installation Forum) From contributor M: I wouldn't wish drilling a 9" deep hole 7/8" bore into a 1 1/2" thick edge on anyone. I usually get around this situation by cutting a slot in the drywall over each stud and screwing on a massive steel angle bracket. The bracket leg sticking out into the room slides into a slot in the edge of the shelf which is miraculously formed by laying the shelf up with a hollow space in the center. (1 1/2" thickness = 2 x 5/8" faces with 1/4" thick spacers) From contributor K: I have a couple methods of doing this, but I need to know the maximum weight. Does either the left or right touch a wall? From contributor Y: Does the shelf have to be solid oak? You could build a torsion box with oak veneer and lag screw it to the wall. The torsion box is extremely strong but lightweight and you can make them in whatever dimensions you need. You can probably still find Ian Kirby's articles on them in Fine Woodworking archives. From contributor W: You don't have to drill perfectly straight into the studs. I use lag bolts, pre-drill as straight as you can, drive the lags as far in as you want, cut off the heads, then use a piece of pipe to bend them perfectly level and square to the wall. If you have a horizontal boring machine you could start the holes in the shelves with that then finish them by hand. Although I would opt for the torsion box method mentioned above. From the original questioner: Thanks. Unfortunately, the torsion box method is not an option; the shelves were custom-milled and have already been delivered. I *wish* we had gone the torsion box route, but it was not my choice and it is too late now. To answer other questions: there are no walls on either side of the shelves. The only way to attach them is along the wall running directly behind them. Regarding the angle brackets suggestion: are these special brackets, or something you can get off the rack? We had considered having brackets made by welding steel rod onto railing, but nixed the idea due to costs and time constraints. From contributor K: Is the back open at all or is it banded/solid all around? From the original questioner: The shelves are completely solid (we had planned on drilling 9 inches deep into them to make tunnels for the rods to slip into). The wall is closed also, but obviously we could open up parts to expose the studs if need be. I did find someone who offered to drill the holes in the shelves in their shop with a big drill press, if we get really stuck. But apart from the issue of drilling the shelves, does it seem that the rod approach (i.e., using allthread to support the shelves) would work? We can only go 2 or 3 inches into the studs with the allthread, and would have about 9 inches of rod supporting the shelves. Do these ratios make sense (I am concerned about shearing load)? The shelves themselves weigh around 60 pounds, and they need to be able to hold plates and glasses safely. Ideally I would like to have them be able to bear 150 lbs total; I know someone who has similar shelves in a kitchen rated to 150 and they work very well. From contributor R: I would think you could get all of 3" into the stud with your allthread. Test your idea in the shop. Take an existing stud... mark the idea of drilling a hole into it to the cost of education... or fasten one someway to your wall. Drill your hole and insert the allthread, gluing as desired, and let cure. Then hang a bag or so of rock salt on it and see what happens. Or do two rods and have your 150# employee do a chin up. Does it hold? From the original questioner: You know, that is a really good idea. I was thinking along the same lines in terms of weight - if it could handle someone standing on it, I think we would be good to go. From contributor C: I would use a spurred ship auger to drill the hole through the shelf. It will stay true going through once you get the setup on the drill press. You may need to grind off the threads on the self feeding tip to take the load off the drill press and/or bring the speed all the way down. From contributor T: I recently tried to pull this off, only with thicker salvaged timbers. Started out by cutting a stopped channel in back edge of shelves, and made a ledger strip to fit in that channel. I epoxied and bolted threaded rods into the ledger, drilled corresponding holes into shelves. I drilled the holes on drill press, as deep as possible, then finished by hand. The plan was to screw and glue ledger separately to wall, then slide shelves on. The wall was plaster on lath over block, so it was real uneven - all told, a nightmare waiting to happen. Finally talked the owner into simple angle iron brackets painted to match wall. Much more secure, and I haven't thought about it since (as I would have if I went the way you're trying to go). Still had to scribe back edges of shelves - a little easier because of the channel. You might want to do this (relieve back edge of shelves) to reduce the scribing chore. I guess your plan can work, with a lot of trial and error for each shelf. You'll want to somehow support the shelves in level position for a couple days while the construction adhesive sets up. From the original questioner: The salvaged timbers must have looked really nice. The owner is very particular, so visible brackets are a no go. It really would take away from the look of this particular kitchen, which is ultramodern and sleek. We are going to give it a try with the rods on Monday. Thanks so much for all the tips. From contributor J: Use a long lag bolt, then cut the head off after installing. From contributor V: I mounted a fir timber mantle, which weighed 120lbs on its own, by drilling holes into the studs as you are planning, and used pieces of black pipe instead of the all thread. The all thread really should be under tension in any sort of structural situation. From contributor L: Why exactly do you need to go so deep into the shelves? Drill a 3" deep hole in both the shelf and the stud, and set the rods in epoxy, with spacers running up from the floor. End of story? From the original questioner: The idea of going deeper into the shelf was to provide support for the front part of the shelves (they are 12 3/4 inches deep). I have an engineer friend who insisted that an 8 inch deep shelf needs 5 inch deep supports, and a 12 inch shelf needs something more than that. And I know of one person who successfully did the same installation using allthread and he drilled 9 inches into the shelves. Three inches may very well have sufficed, for all I know, though. In any event, as it turns out, we were only able to go about 8 inches into the shelf with the particular drill bit we had today. That is, into the one shelf that is now drilled with its 3 holes. All the rods are up on the wall; no problems there, and they appear to be able to support plenty of weight. But none of the three drills we had were particularly enthusiastic about their encounter with the oak, so we made a quick phone call to a friend and are using his drill press tomorrow to finish. Hopefully, that will go more smoothly. I also think we should have used a different drill bit, but that is another story. If I could have done it differently, I think I would have opted for the torsion box method or the method of sandwiching the brackets, which probably would have worked really well here. From the original questioner: Thanks everyone for all of your advice. It was very helpful. The allthread worked fine, as it turns out. We ended up drilling the shelves without a drill press (just an auger bit and a corded drill) and that worked out also. ...and.... another option. These folks used Ikea BB countertop and supported the ends with threaded rod to the ceiling which is covered with copper tubing. Materials: NUMERAR countertop, 3/8″ threaded rod with assorted hdwre, 1/2 copper tubing lacquered, 1�1 wood stapping cut to length Description: NUMERAR counter top was ripped in half lengthwise to make above counter kitchen shelving. Threaded rod supporting the outer edge is concealed by copper pipe which has been lacquered to prevent oxidation. and here's another way to do it: Ok. I'm still not sure what the best method is! Here is a link that might be useful: Contractors talking about floating shelves