Floramakros: I _DO_ win because no one here, including you, has offered a single substantive refutation of anything I've posted on the issues initially raised in the Pinus thread and later those separated into another thread by me to keep things organized. (Except Resin on the very minor issue of where to collect the best C. florida for NW Europe; and because I'm a reasonable, not highly defensive person, I agreed he probably had a good point at least w/respect to the UK proper.) You seem to consider an ad hominem attacks on others - most recently calling me an "idiot" - to be a valid way to argue. I have a BS degree in biology from a top 50 rated US university and worked in one of the country's leading toxicological research labs after college. (but since moved into another field, since having to wear a ventilator mask at work can be a major downer!) Is that my qualification for being an idiot? Is that why my arguments are routinely debunked by other people (not!)? Look, I've been here for 7 years longer than you, and I was actually on gardenweb since its inception under another user name. We've had troublemakers come and go. Guess who's looking like the troublemaker recently? I came into the Pinus thread having seen your earlier posts and having thought of you as another positive contributor. I'm sure you forget but I responded to one of your earlier posts about Pinus strobus in California, in the hopes of it being helpful _to you_. I see you insult the original poster ("we get a troll"), and then get into a tussle with Salicaceae/Jason. I TOTALLY ignore this drama initially, and comment only on the validity of your argument about the theoretical plant SCPalmnut could purchase. (post 23) I point out quite reasonably that a clone in the nursery trade doesn't constitute "rare DNA". By definition, nurseries and arboreta don't sell out their last mother plant of anything when running a grafting operation. That's why they've grafted it. We reasonably assume that SCPalmnut was not going to visit the grove in Mexico and smuggle out cones of an endangered species! (not that they aren't already being "wasted": "Like other pinyons, the seeds are edible; this represents a threat to the species' survival, as the majority of the seeds produced are harvested, limiting natural regeneration of the pines." per wikipedia) Remarkably, it's always been obvious that I agreed in general with you discouraging SCPalmnut, I just dared to attempt to make the slightest correction to why you were criticizing him. To respond to a post that completely ignored drama, guess who turned on the drama: "So we should stop giving our infants vaccinations because there's a chance they'll be hit and killed by a school bus at the age of 10 anyway...that's seems like pretty twisted logic..." I took this affront _to reason_* as an invitation to put you in your place. For someone like me, that meant using logic to debunk your faulty rhetoric, not tell you you needed therapy. This is where I made my one and only mistake - by continuing at all. I probably should have realized no one was taking your silly vindictiveness seriously, but I didn't. And yes, I got a little high handed in my response. (_I_ can recognize when I'm taking things a little too far, unlike some people: HAHAHAHAHA) But there's a big difference between saying "HAHA" in a post and suggesting the other person has mental issues ("Definitely seek therapy" as you said to me): instead of actually trying to respond to anything in my original posts, since this point in the narrative you have done nothing but attempt to insult me and accuse me of lying. You were apparently aghast no one else was buying it: "Please someone else say something, sheesh". History repeated itself as I point out the plant may not be able to grow in SC or FL, but is not extremely sensitive to humidity if McPotts (how fitting) had grown it in a pot in Virginia. Believe me, I've had protea seedlings last from January to June, and literally DIE a couple days after the first humid, sultry Virginia evening. I know all about the problem of maritime plants in humid climates. Again, for whatever reason this perfectly valid contribution to the thread completely enraged you. If there's anything wrong with this precis of the current state of affairs, do feel free to let us know. I will no longer comment on "L'affaire maximartinezii" itself, although of course I will defend myself from further ad hominem attacks in this and any other thread. I'm willing to move on in the sense that I will see you again as any other poster who was making and hopefully will continue to make positive contributions. (You notice I didn't triumphantly cheer your announcement of departure; would have you done the same if I had said I was leaving for good?) Let's just say we had a "misunderstanding" and call it a day. * - i.e., not to _me_. At no point have I responded to your attacks on me by attacking you in the same way; the statement I made about an "elephant in the room" was quite clearly a rhetorical device and not some kind of threat, as you kept trying to make it out to be in an attempt to drum up nonexistent sympathy for your side of the argument. This post was edited by davidrt28 on Sun, Dec 2, 12 at 8:50

In our turn of the century house, we found a 1902 penny in a bedroom wall. We also found a newspaper clipping from I think the 1980's inside the wall of a shoddy addition to the kitchen. In the attic we found a mailer tube with curtain rods the homeowner had ordered from Sears -- I forget what year it was but the postage on it was something like 5 cents. But the real gem we have is a book that a local gave to us. The original homeowner (the wife) -- her dad had given her mom a book before they were ever married - the inscription is dated 1877 -- the book has come full circle back to this house. We also have another book that belonged to the original homeowner -- it's a dictionary, but she tucked some clippings into it and jotted down birthdates inside the back cover and made other random notes in it. They are both gems to have and it's neat that they came back to this house in a very random manner. Someone gave us a box of old books because we turned one of the rooms into a library. It was just random luck of the draw that two of those books had ties to this house. It was meant to be.

The little girl next door discovered "Let It Go" a few weeks ago and has been singing it outside. All. The. Time. Unlike many of you, I actually like (or at least liked) the song, but heavens to pete is it overexposed. My daughter has been receiving musical instruction in school including reading music. She had vocal music in K-3 and strings (she plays violin) in 4 and 5. She's signed up for orchestra as an elective in middle school. I think the music program was primarily funded (possibly entirely funded) by PTA fundraising and by grants but it's been great. I sing in a church choir and until last year was also part of a small women's ensemble that sang monthly at retirement homes (we went on hiatus when my director fell and suffered a head injury--I'm afraid now that we're never going to resume. I learned to read music with piano lessons as a kid, but it was also taught in elementary school music class. And then I was in choir all through junior high and high school (and a bit in college). I went on a road trip with my daughter earlier this summer, and when we first got on the road I thought she was going to want to listen to nothing but top 40 the whole trip. I made a case for listening to country in the areas where that was 90% of what was on the airwaves (there aren't many country stations where we are from). We also listened to some classical, some religious choral music, some 80s power ballads, and a bit of metal. One of the things that drives me crazy about many young people is their rigid conviction in the superiority of whatever narrow set of music happens to be on trend at the moment (this bugged me even when I was a teen). I'm happy to have a kid with eclectic tastes (for now, anyway; she's not a teen yet).

bpath let's start with I wouldn't be interested in renovating a house like this! I appreciate the history and all but find FLW houses majorly depressing and this one is no exception. However..... I think if you're going to live in this house you have to approach any renovations with an eye to original design intent. Doing that especially in the bathrooms with modern materials and what is now considered normal necessities in terms of shower size, # of sinks etc might be difficult in the original footprint - kitchen would be the same issue. I had a similar basement sink in both of our old houses. Not a clue about the levels - hadn't noticed till you pointed it out but it is confusing. ODD that roof repair estimate doesn't include all the interior damage so it's VERY light. You're being quite generous suggesting that some of the houses built today will even be around in 100 years!!! The house is valued based on all the needed updating and repair which is massive $$. Schools for that house are exceptional and it's 2 blocks from probably the best park and public beach on Lake Michigan in the area. Once that house is updated, taxes will triple.