Duane C,

What class leather is Kippling Saddle? I recently purchased a Sloane Sofa in Berkshire Harness. Was the Berkshire Harness sold as part of a married program? Has H&M had any quality issues with its married program? I like the styling of the Sloane Sofa (and enjoy mine), but suspect it is less expensive to produce due to the stitched back which allows for multiple hide pieces instead of a single hide. Out of curiosity do any of the H&M sofas have a soft spring edge or is the frame simply padded in all of their styles?

"Kipling Saddle" is classed as a Grade 2 hide.

"Berkshire Harness" has been part of the Married Cover program in the past, and is still a promotional hide on some current frames as well.

You are correct, that a 'stitched back' sofa is easier to make than one like their 'Journal' sofa that uses one large hide for the back cushion.

Any "Married Cover" program from any supplier has issues. The reason being its only as good as the quality control at the point of manufacture. Granted, I am rather picky (so I'm told by my suppliers) and I see a lot of faults with M/C items that perhaps the average customer might not. Little things that are cosmetic in nature such as location of a welt trim butt, or a brand in the hide that is visible, or more commonly a chair/ottoman combination where there is a noticeable dye lot variance.

Most H&M sofas have soft spring edge, but not all. A few have a hard spring edge.

-Duane

Wonder if my Sloane was part of the Married Cover program or if the store simply ordered a sofa in that leather. Interesting about the soft spring edge. When I was looking at Bradington Young sofas none of them had a spring edge, and the dealer down played the importance of this feature. Likewise when I was looking at Hancock and Moore sofas none had a spring edge. Perhaps I was seeing a store inventory of less expensive sofas where the spring edge is omitted?

I can't recall if the Sloane was part of the M/C program or not. I don't keep expired promotion sheets around to avoid confusion with current ones, sorry.

H&M is moving towards soft spring edges on their pieces, but not every one has them.. They don't make a 'lesser' frame within a model series, however.

I also am a B-Y dealer (have been for 20 years). H&M is a superior product (possibly the very best in the category) with immaculate tailoring, however B-Y is less expensive in a similar hide. Both have their niche.

For those of you in the know, how does $2699 sound for a Meadows Sofa (1297) with "Cavalier" leather, or $2999 with "Document" leather? The model I saw on the floor in "Bison" was $2399 and I noticed the word married on the tag. I asked the sales girl what married meant because I couldn't remember what I had read here but she gave me a convoluted, no-information sort of answer. Oh, to be 24. At any rate, I found the Meadows sofa very much to my liking and want to own one!

I too, am looking for a Hancock and Moore sofa (City 9840, Evening or Harbison).
What exactly are the differences between the "Married Program" and the "Town and Country Prgram" ? Are these town and country hides now sewn in the same place as non program hides?
I know that if you buy a program city sofa (ie, cavalier henna or cavalier mocha) it is 55% off. If you buy a city sofa from the cavalier samples other than henna and mocha it is 50% off. If you buy a city sofa in another class 2 leather or a class any other leather the dealer that I spoke to would give you 37% off. So someone at H&M, by way of their pricing is strongly suggesting you buy something cavalier. I understand that with an Austin sofa you can pick cavalier or document. But the question is are these program hides sewn in the Pacific Rim ? Are these chinese hides? Does anyone know?

Notsosure...if you search this forum for Hancock and Moore you will come across several very helpful threads about the "Married Cover" program. Here's hoping we both get lucky and become new H&M owners.

Its all very confusing right now on H&M pricing, since things just completely changed three weeks ago. Some dealers are probably slow to move to the new programs and have old program stock on the floor, so its hard to say whats a good deal or not.

I have moved 100% into the new program and updated my sales materials and can tell you that the # 1297 sofa is not part of the new TOWN and COUNTY promo.

Pricing varies and its all over the board. While the old Married Cover program is defunct, there are still married covers in the Town and Country program (hows that for confusing?)

Married cover means the hide is sourced and cut, and sewn overseas and then shipped to the USA in kit form, to be upholstered in the North Carolina factory. There can be quality control issues on married cover programs from any maker, but it offers the lowest price. Frames do not vary, its all in the hide.

This new program is very hard for even the dealers to figure out, because a promo piece might have four price categories to it. In fact, I am the only one at my store that can price H&M ! For example:

The Austin Tilt Back Chair (2032NB)

$ 1,199 in Cavalier Blue or Oxblood or Document Chestnut
$ 1,369 in any other Cavalier leather
$ 1,539 in any other Document leather

Then on top of that you have your regular graded leathers in classes 1 through 4 which will have different price points.

The $ 1,199 price is a married cover, the others are all 100% USA made (note, these are my store prices and you will not see them in other retailers).

OK, at the end of the day, get the one that has the hide on it that you like. Amortized over the life of the piece, you're talking the cost of a dinner out per year to get the one you really want. If you happen to like the Married covers, then that's great. But if you really like the one thats $ 300 more, then over 20 years that works out to $ 15 a year to have that one.

Good luck!
Duane

Duane...thanks for the update and the wealth of information you have posted regarding furniture.

I am now hearing about a Designer's Choice Program.
Anyone familiar with it?

'Designer's Choice' is the name that Hancock and Moore gave to the new promotional program until early-May, then they changed the name to 'Town and Country'. They used this name at the April Market, hence the confusion.

There is only one promotional program from Hancock and Moore and its "Town and Country". Its a very broad, complex and sweeping program, and has about 160 items in it.

I've been selling three leather brands in my store, H&M, Leathercraft and Bradington-Young since the early 80's. When I buy leather for my own personal use in my home, I rarely buy any promo leathers (yes, I have to pay for my pieces just like you!), because the custom off-the-handle hides are just so much richer in color and feel, that its worth the extra money to have those pieces in those hides.

While price is always important - we all like a bargin - don't rule out the non-promotional pieces. Chances are you'll be much happier with it and enjoy it long after the price paid is forgotten. Shop the whole line before you make a decision.

-Duane

I am considering document, savannah, rancho in the 2.
I have not seen any threes yet to know. My big issue is that whatever grade it is it needs to compliment my Stickley Mission cushions which are a Grade 3 Hand antiqued leather in Premium Merlot. Cavalier oxblood works (in a sample to actual cushion comparison) but I have not taken the cushion and compared any others. I do not want the sofa to have the hand antiqued look... I just want it to compliment the Stickley. Stickley wood dominates their furniture so the cushions are a secondary consideration.
I think that the programs are good but I am not "married" to them. The Evening Sofa which I am considering is not in the program. Neither is the large City Sofa or the Harbison. The only one which is--is the 9840 City Sofa. But I will not base my decision solely on price.
I want to love the leather and my first consideration is color, hand, then not shiny.

OK, here's the dirty little secret of the leather business.

Dye lots vary HUGELY. Often by several shades. So you cannot focus on the samples in the stores for accurate colors, especially in the finer (aniline) leathers.

The way I do this with my customers is to take your Stickley leather that you already have, and send a cutting or a seat cushion to Hancock and Moore and let them cull through all their hides to come up with the best match. They then tag that specific hide group for you and you'll be in business. This has been - by far - the most successful way to get a match to existing pieces.

I can almost guarantee that if you pick off the handles, what you will get in won't be even close to a match, hand and gloss level.

Duane

Wow. If I send them my cushion...what will I sit on? LOL.
That is very good information.

I am not necessarily looking to match it. I just don't want it to be a different color altogether(dark red vs burgundy). So it sounds like the only thing to do is to send the cushion.

My default position is to order a green or a brown and stay away from the dark burgundys altogether. Which is probably the safest thing to do.

I appreciate the information, Duane.

My pleasure! Most leather pieces have a small leather 'flag' sewn to the base deck, and you just cut that off and send that in for the color match. If there is no flag, then unzip your seat cushion and pull out the insert - ship only the casing with a request for a fast turnaround.

Good luck!
Duane

DCollie -

We are in the market for a leather sleeper sofa. My husband wants it to be extremely comfortable for sitting/lounging in. The sleeper sofa is only for the occassional overnight guest, when our guest BR is already occupied.

After an extensive online "education" we thought we'd buy an AL, and then sat on their best leather sleeper sofa and it was like sitting on wood (their wooden sleeper support is about 3 inches under the soft-looking "cushions". Very stiff feel and not comfortable at all. (Their leather sofa w/out sleeper was very comfy, however, with nice full-sized, thick cushions!)

Anyway, now that AL is ruled out, I am "sold", by your wonderful, helpful posts on GW, on H&M. However, I did not see a retailer link on their website! I live in NJ and would very much like to sit on an actual sleeper before making the investment.

My husband likes the look of the Kent Chesterfield, and I'd love to know where we can go see and sit in one and also check out other H&M furniture.

Can you please point me to a list of local retailers? (Of course, if they are not competitive with your store's pricing, I'm not afraid of ordering over the phone with a helpful retailer such as yourself! I do want to touch and see before we buy, however. Where is your store, btw?)

Thanks mccall.

Any idea where I can find a list of H&M retailers, anyone?

I'm thinking that it might be less expensive to buy a Hancock & Moore Seville Sofa (Model #9682) RATHER THAN to purchase an old one that needs new leather all around (except on the back of the sofa). Can any one point me to a list of retailers in NC & CA who price out their H&M sofa's competively?

Thanks!

ninjagirlz - Just yesterday I ordered a leather H&M sleeper sofa from www.anniesfurniture.com, a retailers I found recommended on gardenweb. Nick gave me such a competitive price that I stopped looking. Two local NJ retailers (Safavieh and Valley Furniture) quoted me prices that were $1,000 more than my quote from Annies!

I won't be able to comment on the delivery, service etc. until I get my sofa in 10-12 weeks, but will try to remember to do so for others.

Also, I am willing to bet that it is cheaper to buy new than to get something reupholstered in leather. I just had this discussion with the lady who makes my window treatments that it'd be cheaper for me to toss out my old/worn, but perfectly functional and comfy love seat and buy a new one, than to pay her to reupholster the one I have!

Not exactly a "green" option, but the fact is we'll be buying a new love seat!

Can anyone tell me who has the best prices on Handcock and Moore leather sofas?

I don't know if they were the absolute cheapest, but we bought a H&M sofa and chair from Jarrettsville Furniture a couple of months ago. Customer service was great! I can dig up the exact style and prices if you are interested...

http://jarrettsvillefurniture.com/

Anyone have a update price on the H&M settlement sofa? We are getting ready to move into our house. Really in love with this set. Have not got a chance to sit on one. Want to get a idea what i'm looking at. See if my hubby is willing to pay the $$$$ for excellent quality of furniture.

Mr. Collier adding a service charge to credit card purchases is against credit card regulations & you can be fined up to $5000 for this.

Any suggestions on how/where to sell a Hancock and Moore 9010 Tarleton Sofa and 9008 Chair/Ottoman. This is a classic style and I love it, but my wife is redecorating for a more contemporary look. It's too nice/expensive to give away. It is Navy Blue Leather and could be mistaken for a year or two old, despite the fact that it is about 15 years old. Also, no idea what to ask for it. I think it was about $7K new for all three pieces?

We got our Rugby sofa in a beautiful grade 3 burnished from The Englishman's Interiors. Their designer was kind enough to send us wood samples and everything. I shopped around and they without a doubt provide the best combination of price, service and delivery.

Here is a link that might be useful: Englishman's Interiors

MsSusan,

Did you find your Rugby sofa to be comfortable? I'm looking at that one too.

I have never heard of The Englishmen's Interiors but it looks like a nice store. I was actually looking at a Rugby sofa in Document leather the other day and I thought it was very sharp. I was thinking about contacting Green Front for some prices. We also thought we would take a trip to their store in VA to look at what they had. I have heard that shopping at Green Front is an experience. Nothing fancy kind of jumbled but a good selection and good prices.

Hijacking an older thread -- would like to buy a hide of leather from Hancock and Moore, for seats of two chairs. Found color I like at designer showroom, but I cannot buy it there. Hoping the fine folks of this forum can help :-) I have narrowed it down to either "Challenger Navy 5152" (class 1) or "Kip Denim 6285" (class 1 protected)

Check Hancock & Moore's website; most furniture manufacturers will have a dealer locator

Take a look at Classic, Leathercraft or Mckinley Leather. They all offer the Camel-back style and all will do custom work. I feel sure if you shop at the right store the price will be much lower than the H & M.

Thank you Wellington's.

Duane, when you say "custom, off the handle hides are so much richer in color and feel," how does that apply to H&M leather grades I-V? Also, some of the H&M leathers are marked "protected" and others "unprotected." Can you comment on that? I am trying to find the balance between look and feel vs. durability and cleaning options. Thanks so much!

I haven’t seen any recent posts but where is the best place to order H and M in NC it seems the places we bought furniture from years ago are out of business. I live near Chicago and the prices are ridiculous here. However I feel guilty going to a local store and not buying even though none of them have the chairs I’m interested in. I hate to spend that much without sitting in one first. Though all of their other chairs I have sat in are very comfortable. I have a lovely store within walking distance of my house but they won’t budge on price.

My store in Alexandria VA ships nationwide on Hancock and Moore, I have customers all over the country including many in Illinois. Send me an email to keepingroom@gmail.com and include the model number, the leather cover you are interested in and your zip code and I will get a quote back to you in less than 24 hours.

Some notes on pricing.

1) Be sure you get a dealer that stands behind you after the sale, the lowest price is no good if they ignore your phone calls should there be an issue.

2) Home delivery services cost three times more than delivery to a commercial address (18 wheeler accessible off the back of the truck). If you have the capability to unpack it and transport the last mile to your home you can save quite a bit in that area.

3) There are significant price increase coming in January 2021. Supply chain costs have gone up considerably.

4) Century Furniture (Rock House Brands) owns Hancock and Moore. Century has already implemented collection of Sales Tax into Illinois for that brand, its only a matter of time before you will be paying sales tax on H&M into your state as they consolidate accounting systems, this is likely to happen in 2021 as well, along with all the other Rock House Brand Companies. Currently we are shipping Hancock and Moore without that sales tax added.

Duane Collie