"As I've said in other postings, any advisor that won't give you the names of at least 3 long-time clients to call and talk to, isn't worth considering." The problems are 1) he cherry picks clients and 2) clients have no clue what they are paying or how they are really doing. They just know they 'like' they advisor and he 'seems' to be doing great. The people I have helped all thought initially that their advisor was their dear friend that was doing wonderful things with their money. They would have given glowing recommendations. I think EF Moody said it well: "And that's the same critical problem with referrals as well- and the reason that they are so effectively used in the business. Literally every salesperson is told/taught to get referrals to friends, neighbors, relatives, co-workers, Martians, whoever, since that is a great lead in. Unfortunately, the person getting the referral believes- or wants to believe- that the agent has already been critically and thoroughly analyzed and must be of the highest caliber and competency. Invariably they do NOTHING themselves to check out whether such knowledge or ability exists- and nothing was done before. Then this happens to the next person and the next, ad infinitum, as the referrals continue. It ends up that no one did any checking on anyone at all and then they later wonder how it all went wrong. They end up buying the wrong product at the wrong risk level at the wrong time- and certainly from the wrong person. They get little or ineffectual service, etc. Now referrals may work with physicians and certain other professionals (sometimes with CPA's or attorneys- but not all the time) since they at least have a degree and other background and training. Even here, people are finally recognizing there are problems. But referrals to agents who have essentially nil background (read further) is illogical. It is for these many reasons that I feel that referrals to brokers, insurance agents, financial planners, attorneys and most other entities is a waste of time unless a comprehensive review of the individual is commenced before any product is purchased or any fee paid. And such review is NOT calling the SEC/NASD or your State offices to see if any formal arbitrations or law suits have been instituted. Only an infinitesimal number of agents have ever been sued. That still says NOTHING about competency. You need to do a LOT more to assure yourself of some reasonable competency." "That seems to set you off in a very strident manner." Because I know what a scam these people are probably in for. Unless they find an honest, knowledgable, hourly fee-ONLY planner. I would totally love to see ignorant investors finding good, honest, low-cost advice. I could then turn my attentions to all my hobbies. The fact is, these people need advisors because they are ignorant and have no confidence. Salesmen will snap them up and manipulate them and hurt them. I see this over and over and over. "But any good CFP who has been in business for 10+ years should be able to show a track record of at least 6-8% after expenses." Should, but they don't. Numbers don't lie. "Yes, it is hard to track all expenses (whether you use an advisor or not), but a rough total can be managed by diligent clients and figuring out the ROI is easy after that." First, why should a client have to hunt down elusive fees? Shouldn't a financial ADVISOR (!!!!) be telling the clients all about the fees? This alone is very telling. And I can't even track down all the fees! Fund turnover is not in the prospectus let alone the expense ratio. Take a look at this: "Mercer Bullard, president, Fund Democracy and assistant professor of law at the University of Mississippi, added: "This study demonstrates conclusively what consumer groups have argued for years: fund expense ratios are misleading. Expense ratios exclude portfolio transaction costs that on average equal 43 percent of the total expense ratio. In some cases, hidden portfolio transaction costs are five or six times the total expense ratio. Congress should act promptly to ensure that America's investors are provided with full disclosure about funds' portfolio transaction costs." Even if you find the turnover, figuring out the cost from there is a bear. Can't you see what a problem this is? "People also need to consider that many CFPs offer their clients purchases at NAV and reduced management fees on funds." From the BCT study: "Do advisors help clients find funds that are lower cost (excluding distribution costs)? After analyzing several trillion dollars worth of transactions, the answer is no." "He changed all his clients over to a fee basis " Yes, the new and improved way to get big fees from clients. This is usually more expensive than loads for the client in the long run. Fee basis means he can get commissions (probably from 12b-1 fees) and a percent of the client's assets. That percent of assets gets subtracted from the client's investments year after year after year after year. Never to compound. And for what? "But I don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone enjoys doing this type of thing;" They don't have to. They can buy a target retirement date fund (very low expense ratio, no load, no percent of asset fee, no 12b-1 fee, index funds, automatically rebalanced) or have a salaried Vanguard planner do it (often at no cost) or hire a fee-ONLY planner by the hour to set up a simple portfolio. I am saving amazing amounts of money and spend less that 8 hours a year on my investments. Had I been better able to dig through the industry BS when I first started, I would have been able to set up a great portfolio in a weekend. "In the end, all we are doing here is trading opinions. " Hard numbers are not opinions. This is not an opinion: "the BCT study found that the raw returns of equally weighted mutual funds (net of all expenses) for 1996 to 2002 were 6.626% for the investors working on their own and were 2.924% for funds provided by advisors." I know that I'm passionate about this. It's because I have looked at enough evidence over the years to reach certainty. And, I have seen so many people that have lost years of retirement to fees they were never told about by their trusted financial ADVISOR. Maybe it's just my opinion, but I think that if someone pays for a service he should get a value from that service - not badly hurt. And the worst is that all those clients initially defended their broker like crazy. It was only after I took them out to Morningstar and showed them reality that they started realizing what was being done to them.

Hi Ole Joyful! I would love to get a copy of this book, or any help offered. I am in my mid 30s, husband late 40s. Hubby has been 100% disabled for years, therefore, I am the worker. We have a nice house, child, dogs, cars, and want to secure it all for the future. In my job field, there is no 401K, or anything offered, unless you work for a corporation. So, I have a money market savings acct that I add money every so often. I also have a policy, should anything happen to me. This way, I know the house will be paid for, plus extra cost of living. I would LOVE to spend one weekend with retired people who have made it, but only with the same conditions as I am in. I need to know if I'm doing everything right, to protect our future. I think we all need a mentor in our life.

Hi cheery one, I'm pleased that you're happy with the "pro"s of your retirement. And somewhat sad that you're feeling that you're not keeping up to the mark of what you'd hoped/planned to do. If you feel the need to beat yourself over the back about that - make sure it's with a wet noodle ... and only five strokes, O.K? As for the "average" retiree, I don't feel that I have too much of a handle on that ... and wonder what level of expertise you may claim in that department? I think that it's important to do things that we can be pleased with ourselves for having done, at the end of the day ... week ... month ... year. Something that I note to have been scarcely mentioned in this thread so far is the need that all of us retirees have to concern ourselves about (as well as people in the workforce) is the erosion of the value of our income (and, for us retirees, our assets) due to inflation, every year for about the last 80. There hasn't been much increase in incomes in recent years, except for the wealthy few ... but the prices keep going up ... and for most of us, those prices of much of the goods and services that we buy have been and are going up faster than the official rate of inflation. When we put money in the bank, or buy bonds, etc. which pay us the same number of dollars after several years that we gave them in the first place, apart from the "rent" on the money, it isn't only taxes and living expenses that much come out of the earnings ("rent on the money"), but an allowance for inflation, as well, in order to keep the purchasing power of those assets equal in ten years to what it is now. Good wishes to you for dealing well with the days ahead: may they be as many as please you, with good health, friends, enough bucks to meet your needs, things to do and a few challenges, here and there. ole joyfuelled

Hi, old navy dawg with the salty tongue, How nice that you're both at home, following the good wife's retirement. You'll find that the house isn't as much "yours" as you thought it was, when she left to go to work every day. When you consider going to battle ... you'll be using "missives" instead of "missiles", no doubt. I hope that you have many interesting and happy years to enjoy that retirement .... with the greyhounds. __________________________________ I have referred several times here to the guy who wrote the book, "Stop Working: Here's how you can; I retired at 34" just over 10 years ago, and others, one being "The Idiot Millionaire" or something like that and including one on training kids how to use money well. Some have been on the Canadian best-seller lists. I'd suggested that if people went to the www.canadianmoneysaver.ca magazine website, they might be able to read some of his articles, but doubt that to be possible, as I must use my subscriber codes to enter most of the site, including archives. If some of you are interested, I could ask the magazine and him about copying one or some of his dozen or so articles, that go back to when he retired, something over 10 years ago, to send to you. I've spoken approvingly of the magazine here on a number of occasions, so that might help me plead my case. Or, I could send his contact address, and he'd likely share at least some of his ideas, likely could follow his blog. Good wishes as you work toward more skillful use of money: learning how money works is an interesting hobby ... and it pays well! Taxes, too! ole joyfuelled ... operating with more joy due to having no debt