You should probably first research how easy each of these is to clean and maintain. I don't know about the others, but Harmans can be slid out easily with a rail and by undoing latches.

I found an Accentra cleaning manual online.

Thanks, any ideas on these prices? Are they in the right ranges? How about heat output? The "specs" say that the Quadra or Lopi would be the best.

Acymbal,

I would like to make you aware of a couple things regarding pellet inserts.

1) Pellet inserts are NOT designed to fit completely inside your old fireplace. Every one of them will stick out of your firplace like from 9" to 13" depending on the model.

2)Now here is a fact that few people realize. What is the main feature that pellet inserts sacrifice as compared to normal pellet stoves? The answer is the ash pan or drawer. Please realize that most pellet inserts have a VERY TINY ash pan or NO ash pan at all! This means that you may have to clean the ashes from your pellet stove evey day since there is no real pan or drawer for them to fall into. In my opinion, this is a problem.

As a result, I would purchase the pellet insert with the largest ash capacity. You should contact each vendor for these inserts to find out: 1)How much ashes each can hold (in terms of hours of burn time) and 2) How easy is it to remove these ashes.

Please let us know what you find!

nra4usa

Another consideration -- IIRC when I looked at (freestanding) pellet stoves a couple of years ago, they would not work if the electricity was out. If it was to be a primary heat source, we were advised to have a backup source to power the unit.

We skipped the pellet units at that point & went w/ a gas insert for our existing masonry fireplace. Don't know if the backup power need is true for all units (inc. inserts), or even if it applies to current models -- maybe the experts here can verify...

acymbal - I live in upstate NY and have a pellet insert... in fact I have the Harman Accentra. The stove in a great heat source and has saved my family quite a bit of money. My home is warmer in the winter that ever before. Of course that only applies to the downstairs. The ash pan size in not an issue. I clean mine out every ½ - 3/4 ton, more with lower quality pellets. (Invest in an ash vacuum)

Yes a "Pellet inserts are NOT designed to fit completely inside your old fireplace" but for most people this is not an issue. If the entire unit was inside the fireplace it would be difficult to fill and would not produce so much heat.

Two things to keep in mind.....

Location in the key. In order to move warm air throughout the house the stove must be centrally located. There must be an easy way to distribute warm air to other parts of the house without using powerful fans. If you move the air to quick it will cool and decrease the efficiency.

Be aware of the noise. Pellet stoves can be noisy. I would avoid placing it in a room where you are watching TV because you will have to turn down the fan in the unit and those defeats the purpose of having a stove. You will also hear the auger motor from time-to-time.

Excellent input on the pellet stoves. Thanks.

I'm considering a free standing, but I was also considering one at my next house . . .

As for this thought . . .
"If you move the air too quickly it will cool and decrease the efficiency."

I respectfully disagree. Speed of movement has got nothing to do with temperature.

Thanks for all the info folks.

I am aware that the stoves stick out. It is fine, since i have 2 feet of bricks in front of my FP.

Jac2086 - How big is your house? You bring up a great point about centrally locating the unit. My FP is in the family room, the back left corner of the home. We have a ceiling fan in that room and the one next to it. ALso the room has 2 sets of french doors, one leading to the very open Kitchen/dining area and one leading to a formal LR which is at the base of the stairs. This room has the other ceiling fan. I have talked to salesman and they say it should be fine and heat at least the first floor without a problem.
I am skeptical though and have been wondering if maybe it would be better to put a freestander in the Kitchen area. But then, I think I should just use the natural location and get a nice large BTU unit.

Does anyone have any experience or ideas of how my FP location will effect the overall heat?

Also if I decide to go freestanding, my kitchen has brand new ceramic tile flooring. Could I just place the unit of the floor or would I still need to build a hearth?

Jac,

Thanks for the info on the good size of the ash pan in your Harman pellet insert. I would like to remind others to not assume that other brands of pellet stove inserts have ash pans as big as the Harman insert or ash pnas at all for that matter. Find out before you buy!

acymbal-

My home is about 2400 sq ft and the stove is in the family room at the far end on my house behind the garage. The room in open to the kitchen and has a vaulted roof line and a ceiling fan. It is difficult to move the air from the far end of the house, up the stairs and into the bedrooms. I have tried closing off the upstairs ceiling height cold air returns and using the furnace fan on low but it made the upstairs even colder.

The fireplace was a natural location for placement of the pellet stove in my house also. I wanted to remove a cheep fireplace insert that would leak cold air so bad that I had snow on the brick hearth during really cold weather. Upon removal I also found fire damage behind it and discovered the builder did not install it properly.

One other thing to keep in mind - If you are going to use the stove to augment home heat, recognize where the thermostat is located. If it is in a room that is heated with the stove you will have to turn it quite high to force it to kick on or move it the coldest room for the winter months.

I know people who have cut in floor vents to allow air to travel to the second floor but I believe in is against building code in NY

With the size of your home, I donÂt think the stove will keep up when the temperature goes in the single digits or below. I say that without understanding your floor plan or home build design (i.e. insulation, windows, efficiency)

If you do purchase a stove, no matter what brand or fuel source. I recommend installing a good carbon monoxide / fire detector.

I recommend Harman for several reasons but most of all for the easy of cleaning. The rail design to pull the stove out is a great feature. If you read through my posts from the January timeframe, you will hear my frustration from the installation. I choose to put the stove in myself to save on cost and as a personal challenge. (I have a great deal of building experience through previous jobs but have not been in that profession for quite some time) It would have been easier if the dealer we somewhat competent in the products they sold, information they shared, and customer service they provided.

jac2086---

"Upon removal I also found fire damage behind it and discovered the builder did not install it properly."

I have been warning people about these for years until my face turns blue. Nobody wants to believe that at least 30-50% of zero-clearance pre-fabs are installed improperly and can (do) lead to house fires. I am very concerned about people who add hot inserts to these defective installations. The process of pyrolysis would still be ongoing and is just a tragedy waiting to happen.

Out of sight-- out of mind? Don't believe it. The problem of course, lies in that the damage cannot be seen until it is too late. The only safe course of action is to not use them at all (complete abstinence).

ALL zero-clearance pre-fab, non-EPA certified fireplaces should be banned. Period. They are being banned in new construction in many areas and most likely will be banned in the entire US, not just from new construction, but their use will be also banned in the future.

"Out of sight-- out of mind" is exactly what the builder did. I'm not sure if it is because of motivation, cost or talent of the installer. I fould parts that had been left off for some reson and that there was fireboard installed for the first four feet. Over the years (house is 11 years old) the insolation had fallen off the studs and landed on top of the 'fireplace insert'. I also found water damage because cap was not properly joined, supportated and wraped. Water would pool on the cap and eventually leak down the side of the flue.

I have had several saftey conversations with my neibors who have not replaced the 'zero clearence' crap.

We just had a Harman Accentra Insert installed (NH) a few weeks ago. Our installed cost was $4000 ($2999 for the insert (on sale) and $1000 for the install.

EGJ

Is the Accentra big enough for me? They say that it has a max of 40000 BTU which I think is good enough, but Harman says that equates to about 1400 sq ft. Where as Lopi rates their 42000BTU unit at 2200 sq ft. Is Harman just being realistic?

Well, perhaps take a look at the sytem you have. For example, for a 2400 sf colonial in CT the standard gas system would be rated at about 90k btu input, and, therefore, about 72kbtu output to the system. I figure I need about 60ooo btu.

So look at your old system and figure 80% efficiency. You can also look at your oil and heat bills for the numbers. Figure your old system is very likely to be oversized.

The difference between 40 and 42k btu is 5%, btw, which isn't going to make a huge difference - but if all else is equal, I'd always go bigger on a pellet stove.

Most manufacturers exaggerate on the amount of sq. ft. their products will heat. Always look at the low side of their estimates, not the high sides.

Harman is being conservative and Lopi is being aggressive.

If it was my decision.... I would stay away from Lopi. I have read horror stories, but of course they are just that.... stories. I have no personal experience with the product.

As far as if the Harman is big enough - this will have to be your decision based on location of the stove, build of the house and method of operation.

I have found with my stove, which is located at the far end of my house with limited access to the stairs, it will keep up when it is above 10-15 degrees depending on wind speed. Lower than that and the furnace turns on to help heat the upstairs.

Also - during the evening we must turn down the fan to watch TV and in doing so, other portions of the house become cooler.

"Also - during the evening we must turn down the fan to watch TV and in doing so, other portions of the house become cooler."

Throw the TV away! Problem solved.

THanks for all the info everyone. This has been helpful.

I think that ease of cleaning and max BTU are my main factors, as well as availability.

I just stopped by a dealer and he was recommending the Avalon or Lopi brands. He has years of experience with them and has little problem with them. IN addition he sells the Enviro line. He did acknowledge that Harman and Quadra were the main competitors which had advantages as well as disadvantages. He spoke well of them but was obviously talking more about the stoves he sells.

When I asked about installation, he said it would cost $800 + the cost of the liner which at 30' for my home would be about 800-1000!!! I said to him that seemed high and he gave me some line about a better liner. Is there such a thing. THe "lesser" one would run about half the cost, or about the same as everyone else has quoted me.

For 30 ft. of the appropriate venting system, the approximate price you got is not out of line. Actually, it could be low. You are not just looking at straight pipe, but also the stove connector, top plate, cap, storm collar, flex pieces, supports, etc. NEVER is it just straight pipe. There are so many components too.

The dealers in Michigan are always trying to sell an insulated cover for the SS liners. I believe they use a fiberglass mat shaped like a tube and slide it over the liner. Are these really necessary, or are they just trying to add to their profits?

The liner will definitely help with draft, which will reduce creosote, etcetera. I guess the question is how much? I don't know.