No real surprises from my roses, perhaps because I didn't form any expectations about them. They've been giving me plenty of pleasure, though. The early species and hybrids have been flowering; now the Teas and those Chinas not yet in bloom are about to get going. Like elemire, we've been having a cold wet spring. Well, I did see a flower for the first time on a Mediterranean peony that I bought some years ago as a root and planted in truly terrible ground. The flower was large, single, lilac pink with a striking boss of stamens, and startlingly beautiful. The next day when I came to look at it again, it had already shed its petals. It was worth it. Next year I can look forward to it flowering again. Also I was surprised about how some of my snow crocuses and miniature irises wandered around the garden, ditto for some common sage that seeded far from any parent plant. And I just noticed today a striking iris (tall bearded) that I never saw before; if I remember correctly the color is a strange brownish purple, quite showy. These things are a lot of the fun of gardening. Melissa

Welcome to the forum and also the "daylily addiction"! Now for your question.....I guess you could over winter them in pots inside, but let me share one of my recent experiences with you. I planted 100's of seeds last summer, and ran out of space and time to get them all transplanted from the flats to the seedling beds (which are outside). Several flats of seedlings overwintered on the ground out in the open. I almost threw them out this spring when I noticed some putting up new growth. A friend had lots of 1 gal pots that she gave me, and since I was out of bed space, I transplanted the seedlings into the pots. Guess what, they are larger and healthier looking than lots of the ones I had transplanted into the seedling beds last fall. I guess what I'm trying to say is, these little babies are hardier than lots of people give them credit for being, and I for one, will never try to over winter them inside unless it's in a greenhouse environment set up specifically for them. Think about it, if the seed fell out of the pod onto the ground naturally, it's highly likly they would sprout before winter, so I figure nature's way is the best. At least for me it is. BTW, I'm in zone 8 which isn't too much farther south than you. I hope this helps you make your decision on what to do with you babies. :) Jan

Dirr was first. Was he the best? Until a better one comes along, he is. He also established a market for a book that before him didn't exist, yet a market (nationally) where there is only room for one. However, he's done. His Manual will most likely never again be revised. He's opinionated. This one trait made him both revered and reviled. The people that don't like him...tend to be the ones who have strong opinions of their own. Imagine that...people who deal with something a lot tend to have strong opinions about what they work with on a regular basis. Shocking. Do I hold everything he says as Gospel? Lord no, I'm the first to tell you I have crammed the margins with notes and addendums, to the point that I'm going to have to buy a new copy of the last edition (my current one is held together by rubber bands...I can't decide if it would the ultimate insult to ask him to autograph it, or if it would the greatest compliment to offer a book to be signed that has been so often opened). In every part of the country but the NW, Jacobsen is a lightweight. It's a little surprising I even know about him, despite his personality cult in certain area(s). There are other authors specific to NE, the MW, or the SW tht while they are dominant in their market...they will never be more than a footnote elsewhere. Jacobsen's biggest problem is Dirr's...he's just a opinionated, but tries to take himself so seriously. Dirr embraced the opinions, and phrases them in ways that take you by surprise, and in doing so, either thrill you or repulse you. I'd say most people kinda like it. ACJ takes himself soo seriously, yet he's just as opinionated. Again, someone who deals with something alot develops opinions about it? Could we be on to something? As for Whitcomb, his books sit on the shelf, collecting dust. Every once in a while I'll take them down, peruse them a bit, then put them back for another rainy day somehwere down the road. If I wanted to buy into all of his ancillary products, great, I'd be hooked. Actually not, I'd by into Forrest Keeling RPM, but that's a container of a different root hair. But where everyone else gets condemned for selling out for something as base as money, he gets praised? He gets quoted because he put into words all those things no one else did. For that, he fully deserves to sell all the copies he can. Beyond that, what I find of anyone's work means little beyond what value I find in it. I have something over 200 books covering nearly every facet of plants, particularly those woody, you could imagine. Some should probably be utilized more fully than they are. I'd rather use the Diseases of Trees and Shrubs and the Insects that Feed on Trees and Shrub and Insect Pests of Forest Trees, but most people just want to know what's in the Ortho Problem Solver. Do I need to bury them with info, or answer their question?

Hi Carolyn. Hail was last year, a few weeks after early June frost, and before record rainfall. Very interesting to see how easily a stem turned back into a nice plant. Still, last years waterlogged plants produced better tasting tomatoes than this year's admittedly very late yet shockingly full, large, and productive plants. If someone knows what causes mealiness, I would love to know. Really is looking like I will have about 1200-1500 large mealy beefsteaks...and I hoped to avoid any jarring for sauce this year. The weird thing about those saved Black Krim is that I saw no variation at all for the first 2 seasons (with 14 total plants in my garden and given to others), only one out of 6 in season 3, and then 4 this year. All of the other plants have produced the same round tomatoes from that one stray plant from 2005...no noticeable difference in plants size/appearance, fruit size/appearance/number/flavour. All 5 of the variations have produced very similar large pink beefsteaks. If it was particularly unstable/if some initially saved seeds were destined to produce beefsteaks, I would have expected to see it sooner. The one plant that produced beefsteaks last year was quite good (similar to brandywine/marianna's peace), so I saved seeds separately, and the plants growing from those seeds this year are producing nice pink beefs. I did not bag any blossoms this year, will save seeds from one of the round fruits as a backup, and will grow out more of the originals next year and bag some blossoms from each (and save some that come out round). Of course if the beefs turn out to be keepers I will save more of those too. I never did follow the acknowledged proper procedure of saving seeds from the most representative plant from each of the next few successive generations, primarily because I assumed it was a stray OP seed since all of the offspring for first two years were so much like the first. I have learned my lesson, though it appears to be a delicious lesson given the nice beefs pictured in the link below. See some pics from a month ago on the below thread. Shows a few pics of one plant from saved PH seed. The second from the last picture is from saved seeds from last year's one beefsteak from those seeds originally saved in 2005. http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0700110626924.html I purchase 100% of my seeds (except for PH and Goose which were saved by someone and sent to me...jury out on whether Goose are true, who knows if hybrid PH were also cross-pollenized). In a few cases a packet has been mislabeled, in other cases just one stray seed. However as I said this is not always a problem, I have a few good keepers as a result. I will however be disappointed if the other two Cherokee Greens start turning orangey red, and will be a bit disappointed if the RL from Green Giant is not a green tomato. Hey, I thought you liked hearing about my assorted challenging situations and attempts to get clarification on good growing practices! I do a lot of fiddling with things, and we have had wacky weather up here...those things combined with maybe a few more than the average expected number of mixed up seeds has led to more than one BAH from me. Anyway in the end unless things change this season might end up being the biggest tease ever...with poor expectations, very late planting, very cool nights, I somehow ended up with giant full plants...and although widespread fruit set was 3-4 weeks later than normal, the plants seem to be absolutely covered in fruit. So many others have horror stories, but I have bigger plants than ever before, more fruits per plant than ever before, and so far they are the worst tasting (i.e. flavourless and MEALY) since I started growing. It's like I have a garden full of those awful yellow pears. That is deserving of one more BAH!