I'm sorry this won't be more helpful, but I am looking for the same criteria as you, and had the same question. The only thing I would add is that the dishwasher needs to last a long time, too (especially for the money you pay for a Miele.)

I looked at the Bosch line in store, and concluded that the tines were too close together for my use. I stuff everything in the dishwasher, and there is no way my pots, pans, and baking dishes would fit in there. So, if you only do plates, cups, cereal bowls, and flatware, a Bosch would work. They do seem to have good reviews.

I'm hoping others will add their 2 cents, because my dishwasher is on it's last leg and I'll have to decide soon.

Lydia and crystal shoe,

I'm in the middle of installing a Miele dishwasher. Based on reviews here I took a chance on Miele vs a domestic brand. I bought their cheapest entry level model, a 4225 classic I believe, and it wasn't cheap, at $899, but shows incredible craftsmanship compared to the GE Profile I had to replace.

It has the following features:
-stable rack with strong rollers, strong points of the old GE I had
-adjustable upper tray
-a more traditional utensil basket
-flexible tines that fit our Corelle dish ware
-shallow depth compared to the GE, which stuck out beyond the counter
-stainless steel liner
-very well done filter that doesn't require tools to remove
-metal outer chassis
-very simple leveling leg adjustment
-nice stainless steel plate to keep mold out of your cabinet
-a flat black front that matches our KA refrigerator
-flexible soft drain hose compared to rigid plastic we had before

It does have some quirks you should be aware of if you buy a Miele
-requires an outlet for a plug, it's not hard wired; potential added install cost unless you are lucky enough to have a second outlet at the dishwasher plug on its own circuit separate from disposal switched circuit
-install manual is mainly icons, but it works OK
-uses a rope for the door hinge counter action, metal cable would make more sense to me
-leveling leg ended up where old dishwasher water inlet came in, I need to add a steel support plate

I can't comment on its cleaning ability or noise levels yet, but I am very satisfied by its construction quality. Will post soon.

Just bought a Miele with a "china" option a month or so ago. This replaced an Asko, so we are accustomed to the long run times, but this might be something to get used to. We usually just wipe loose stuff left on plates into the garbage and occasionally give a quick splash rinse to get the "pieces" off. No more. You may not have a filter on the GE, but on the Miele (and the Asko) there is a fine mesh filter that pops out for rinsing. We do this about once a week. The Miele is very quiet and does a great job.

Miele is very quiet, does a good job, and would have been my remodel choice, had not my wife wanted drawers. The FP drawers are more quiet than my 22 year old GE ever was, and clean well so far, but are not in the same class as the Miele at my wife's house where noise is concerned. We never heard the Miele running, except when it pumped out the water.

I have a bottom-of-the-line Miele, purchased 3 years ago, in the clearance room of a local store. I was remodeling so having the needed outlet installed was not a problem. I love this machine, it's quiet and it does a stellar job of getting the dishes clean. I originally worried that it wouldn't hold as much as my old Maytag, but it loads so flexibly that I can actually get MORE in. It's a great machine and I an recommend it highly.

Cj

bump

removing double post

This post was edited by lyfia on Thu, Dec 19, 13 at 11:23

Thank you so much for the input!

So the Miele sounds good still, but not sure about getting an outlet in and be able to fit one. Is it 220V? If not I think we have an outlet already, or maybe I'm thinking of my old house where I added one.

How long are the cycle time? My Profile takes over an hour without having heated drying on.

Which Miele should I be looking at?

Does all of them have the handle that sticks out? I don't think I have the space to have it stick out too far or it will block our silverware drawer.

All current dishwashers take FOREVER to wash dishes, except the new Miele Profiline commercial units. I had one installed several weeks ago at our recently acquired MCM home. We are not completely moved in yet due to this @$#^ weather, but I have used the unit several times and I must say that I'm impressed. The unit is a 220 volt model and comes with a 4 prong 30 amp cord attached. You can hook it to cold or hot water, your choice. Mine is hooked to hot as it will shorten the cycles a little. The prospeed cycle on mine takes about 18 minutes to complete which I find amazing. The Universal cycle, which is equivalent to a normal cycle on a regular dishwasher clocks in around 30 minutes. The most important part: the dishes are clean.

In spite of its commercial roots, it's very quiet and I highly recommend it. It is, unfortunately, rather spendy. Prepare to drop a little less than four grand to add it to your kitchen. I think it's worth the money if you've got it to spend.

I only have a 10 y.o. Miele that's never had a service call, holds a ton and gets all my dishes clean. It plugs into a regular outlet.

There are many different styles and handle or panel choices. The website will detail them all.

I'm not up on all the newest features though one divider (apart from price) revolves about lighting vs no interior lighting. The other consideration for me is number of cycles. I've had 2 of these now, both with china/crystal cycle which I need. I also wouldn't buy one without the Express cycle, which is their quick wash.

There also seems to be choices around adjustability of the upper rack.

But after 2 good experiences now I would only go with this brand.

Great to hear it uses a regular outlet. That appears to be what our GE does too as we have 4 outlets under the sink and only one is used and we don't have anything else in the area that would require an outlet (no disposal).

That makes sense then with the panels and handles as I was getting confused looking at their website as some of the same model would have the handle and others not.

I don't think the commercial unit is for us doesn't seem like it gives me enough benefits for the money.

This post was edited by lyfia on Thu, Dec 19, 13 at 11:22

Again, I haven't shopped it recently but control panel style helps fine it down, too.

Visible Front control panel with recessed handle vs hidden panel on top of door which takes a conventional handle are dividing lines in addition. Plus either can take a cabinet panel or not.

I got the full panel so there's no dw look. I like the top of the door controls as they are easy to see and use. Went with same style but ss front for the newer one in the apartment. But some like the countdown feature on the front panel.

So after that it comes down to cabinet panel or not, number of programs, then the various other options like flexible upper rack etc.

It's complicated but easier once you drill down on lights/no lights and control panel style it would seem.

Miele showroom visit can help if you're near a big city that has one.

I bought a Miele Futura Dimension Plus at the end of the summer. Rococogurl, among others, was a great help in sorting out the models for me. Mine is a discontinued model on clearance with an extra sale on top. I would not have been able to afford it otherwise. It's a mid-range model. Bosch was not in consideration for me because of the way the company has blatantly and illegally used Julia Child's image without consent.

I do hear it running, but it is much quieter than my old cr@ppy Kenmore. I'm always surprised when people say they can't hear their Miele running. Maybe they purchased a more expensive model than mine. It cleans like a champ as long as I empty the filter once a week. It's not a completely gross job. On mine, I can set the reminder to clean the filter at different intervals, but the shortest interval is a little too long for us. This DW has finally cured DH of his obsessive need to pre-wash everything before he loads them.

Forgive me if I missed it, but in the OP you mentioned wanting heated dry. Mieles do not have heated dry. This is the one thing I am most disappointed in with mine. My dishes, serving platters, rubbermaid containers, spatulas, and often glasses come out wet. I've adjusted the length the fan will run at the conclusion of the cycle to aid in drying, but even at the max length it doesn't help much. If I run a cycle before dinner and don't open it until after breakfast the next morning, most things will be dry with the exception of the rubbermaid. Most of the time, however, the DW doesn't get loaded until after the kids go to bed. Because I cook so much, I often need to run a second load at night just to keep up so this is frustrating when I have to hand dry EVERYTHING that comes out if I open it immediately at the conclusion of the cycle. My old Kenmore dried extremely well.

I really wish my model has an express cycle as Rococo mentioned. Neither of the models I considered in the end had that. Otherwise, hooked up to cold (per Rococo's suggestion as I run china and crystal through), the Normal cycle takes about 2:50. I was prepared for this based on research here.

All in all, I would buy my Miele again if I had to do it over. I just wish it dried better and had an express cycle. I don't mind the filter cleaning or the noise. Good luck with your purchase!

breezy -- If yours is not drying as well as you expect it may need additional adjustment.

First, expect you're using rinse aid. That setting can be adjusted to help if it hasn't been. My DW is really old now. But it wasn't drying well at first until they upped the final rinse temperature. It dries really well now though it usually has overnight (not always).

The only time I have to dry anything is if I open it immediately at the end of a cycle when the condenser hasn't had enough time to work.

Don't know where you are but if you can get one of the experienced techs at the east coast call center, it will be about a 30 minute diagnostic and may improve your drying.

Also, if you hear it running I might ask if you installed it directly into the old Kenmore space without adjusting that. Mine is installed that way (kd error) and I've never bothered to correct it. We hear the drain as we don't have cast-iron in this house -- that will happen. But the newer one that had Express installed properly in the apartment was much quieter (same model a few years later). That half-inch or so made a big difference in my case.

Lyfia,

I finally fired up my Miele Futura 4225 Classic today, a 120V bottom of the line model. Compared to the 15 yr old GE Profile, it purrs like a kitten, but is still somewhat audible, loudest being the gurgle in the drain to me. Like other posters noted, if I spent another half hour and trimmed out the extra 3/16 inch of space on each side of the unit, it would be quieter yet, more like the 47 dB indicated.

I have it connected to hot water, and it comes with the very spartan cycles:
-pots and pans
-normal
-economy
-saniwash, one that would make sense if your pre rinse your dishes by habit
-rinse and hold

Adds a turbo wash feature, delay start, and of course has the easily visible count down feature. I never ran a heated dry cycle on my old GE, so I won't miss not having it on the Miele.

Cleans as advertised, caked on cheese, bean dip left over night, nasty tomato dip and taco stained bowls cleaned impeccably. Cycle is 2 hrs 26 min for Normal, at least that is what it showed when I pressed start.

Shallow and with a recessed handle, sits all the way flush with the cabinet easily. If you go through lots of pots and pans in your cooking, you might find the capacity a bit of a step back from the larger Whirlpool and GE offerings.

The silverware basket did have one oddity, my small spoons fit through the silverware dividers, but not the large spoons. Not a big deal, and small spoons cupping/nesting was my biggest complaint on the old one. Although I inspected for how our plates/bowls fit, I did not consider the silverware. That said, I would make this purchase again in a heart beat.

A final do it yourself installation comment. I found it a bit frustrating that the plastic that makes up the lower kick plate remelted to rejoin the cut edge again on the scroll saw, even with the plastic blade going,

And one last comment, I must have lost a screw during unboxing. Made a call to Miele, who picked up in 30 seconds, and they made immediate plans to ship the screw in question to me, free of charge, no questions asked. And the warranty info I punched in 5 minutes before the call was immediately available to the agent to speed up the process.

Yeah, this company still knows what customer service is all about. I'll be sending more business their way.

Laundryvet

hate my new whirlpool! not terribly quiet and have to rewash about a quarter of the dishes and that is scraping and rinsing before putting into the washer! worst appliance i own and its a year old! model wdf530ply. i bought it on consumers reports recommendation and will never listen to them again!

I have the 2nd for the bottom Bosch from Lowes. Very quiet . Cleans very well. Yes the tines are close but if you have alot of dishes and and cereal bowls you can fit so much more in. Right now it is running with mixing bowls and pots and pans in it.

It was about $450 as Lowes price matched a Sears coupon we had.

To echo ardcp: I totally agree about the Whirlpool line! That is what we are replacing now. It broke just out of the 1 year warranty, and has broken a few times since then. Right now, I don't quite know why I even bother using it, as I put in pretty much clean dishes to start with, and if they don't go in mostly clean, they don't come out clean at all. I see the good reviews but can't believe it given my experience.

debraK, are you able to post a picture of your Bosch filled with odd things like pots and pans and such? We more often have tons of prep dishes than plates and bowls.

I haven't looked at a Miele in person, but I love the silverware tray idea. Also, I wish I could justify the money to get the one that has the 23 minute cycle, but yikes it is expensive. I would have to find one on clearance somewhere, but what are the chances of that?

A number of the Bosch models have a silverware tray too (in case you don't want to spend what the Miele costs)

I really appreciate the input here. I think the Miele is out based on that I want to be able to have the delay set to wash at night and unload in the morning and I don't want to have to deal with drying dishes. Unless you tell me there is not an issue at all and they dry in the machine and quickly. I'm ok with some plastic not being completely dry and I put those on a towel on the counter, but don't have room for a lot and don't have time for hand drying - why I want a dishwasher.

I will look at the Bosch and bring a couple of dishes to see if I can load it like I want as so far that seems to be the only drawback mentioned.

I used to have a Whirlpool in my old house and it was a decent one, but not top of the line or super quiet and it did a great job cleaning my dishes. I've been comparing the current one to that forever and regretting my purchase. Of course that one was from 1999 so things have changed.

What about KitchenAid - I saw some threads mentioning those. I looked at reviews and some got good ones and others didn't. I'd prefer a self cleaning filter vs. a grinder.

bought miele diamante plus series 2 and half years ago, i think it is now discontinued...

its awesome and would buy again

replaced a still working maytag which we found a new home for....

cleans everything without rinsing and it does dry everything, the only water it leaves is on top of glasses, but its very little... washing time is long but i usually run it at night or when i leave for work, so time really isnt an issue..

as far as handle, we did a panel and added our own hardware, came out great...

Last March we bought a Bosch 800 Plus. Can't tell you how much we love it. We often have people hanging out in the new kitchen well after the meal is cooked and we turn the dishwasher on and no one can believe its running (the little red light is great, but I would never say it is so quiet I can't tell it's on). Cleans incredibly well, take 2:09 for a full cycle, has adjustable salt feature for hard water, and the cutlery tray! Didn't think we would really like it, but it is great feature. Ours is an integrated model, I installed it myself, including the panel. Good luck.

I forgot a couple of things. Ours dries fine, btw. We expected less with the Euro DW. Use the best detergent and Jet Dry. We use Finish Quantum tabs. Unlike our old Maytag, we put tons of plastic articles in it. We also don't rinse our dishes too much anymore.

Lyfia,

Before buying KitchenAid, visit kitchenaidfires.com. Looks like about 20-30 a month, maybe more, going up in smoke, at least for the folks that could find the class action lawsuit website to add their story. Models seem to be 2002-2011 or so.

As an owner of very recent KA counter depth refrigerator and KA convection oven, both of which I am fairly happy with, I was going to get a KA dishwasher to make the whole set match. Fortunately, I stumbled upon this website about 2 months back that had honest ownership experiences shared that steered me clear of those models. By the looks of it, Whirlpool models also had issues. Also, many posts about hose clamps just falling off, causing floods. And some unfavorable customer service experiences.

The two worst things an appliance maker can do is have problems with fires and floods. It's one thing if your dishes don't come out pristine at the end of the dish cycle, but nobody wants their home wrecked trying to get their dishes clean.

Based on other threads here, Bosch seems to be a good value choice for dishwashers, few bad experiences shared, which is a good sign.

Laundryver

Bosch also had a spate of dishwasher fires that resulted in a recall. I'm not aware of any recent problems.

I own a Bosch d/w that's about 6 years old. It's developed a loud noise for the 3rd time, which I suspect is due to a failing pump. If the repair is too expensive I may change it out for a Miele. Others on this site seem content with their d/ws.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bosch recall

"Also, I wish I could justify the money to get the one that has the 23 minute cycle, but yikes it is expensive. I would have to find one on clearance somewhere, but what are the chances of that?"

Unfortunately, I don't think Miele ever has anything I would refer to as a sale. And I certainly agree that it is expensive, but I look at it this way. Many people think nothing of spending 8K and up for a SubZero fridge while most all refrigerators will keep your food cold. Sadly, all dishwashers won't get your dishes clean as has been revealed on these forums and many are fraught with multiple repairs and a relatively short working life.

When I told my partner I bought this and what it cost, I thought his head was gonna explode and we didn't speak for a week. After it was delivered, he admitted that the build quality was impressive but that did not justify the high price tag. After he used it, all was forgiven and it's now his favorite thing in the kitchen.

Just got our Bosch 800 installed yesterday and have run 3 loads using the Finish Powerballs that came with the machine. It is great (we' e had terrible luck with past DWs) - cleaning is fantastic, it holds a ton and it is incredibly quiet - so quiet that if it didn't have a light telling you it's on you'd never know it.

Forgot to say, the "normal" load I ran last night was totally dry this morning. The loads I ran this morning ("express") left a few pieces not completely dry when I took them out as soon as it finished running - just a few.

Based on Miele Optima purchased ca. 2010.

Unit is very quiet. Sound dampening on Miele's is proportional to cost. Optima was the second to most expensive. It is difficult to hear my unit when it is running.

Gurgle can be avoided by using separate standpipe for the drain. Easier to do when constructing / reconstructing the kitchen. (Various IPC rules apply.)

Miele's (and maybe Bosch's) are European width, which is slightly narrower than US 24-inch. It is essential to use trim strips to close the gap. This allows stronger side mounting without risk of frame distortion and shuts out some of the sound. Also, the gap at the bottom has to be blocked by the supplied rubber strip and a toe kick installed (the supplied toe kick or a prettier toe kick of one's own).

It will dry dishes by itself, as the hot dishes evaporate moisture to the colder dishwasher walls. However, the unit beeps when it is in the drying phase (beep can be shut off) to allow door opening to provide faster drying. Plastics don't hold enough heat for moisture transfer to the walls, so plastic items will remain wet or damp. Then La Perlas opened the door automatically. I am not familiar with the present naming convention, so I can't associate these models with present models.

kas

Still testing out the dishwasher. We've always been a scrape-and-rinse family and no dishwasher we ever had was very good. This one is great! Last night I made spaghetti sauce (which by the way, I splattered all over because I put the induction cooktop on the highest power - 9 - when it only needed to be on 3 LOL). My DH was about the scrape, or scrape and rinse and I suggested he do neither and we just see how the DW does with the pan. On top of that, we ran it on "express mode" -- perfectly clean (damp, which it always is in express mode, but clean). I am very happy with this machine.

I purchased a bosch 800 plus dishwasher (model shx7pt55uc) to replace the whirlpool that came with the house (it died).

Very very quiet! We can not hear it unless you are standing right next to it and you have the TV off, vent hood off, etc. I give it A+ for being quiet. Our last one you could hear way down the hall at night.

The cleaning performance is also very good. Dishes come out sparkling clean. This model has the built in water softener, which I have ON but the lowest setting. Also I have the rinse aid dispense one or two notches above minimum. When I load the dishwasher I just get the big bits off but don't scrape off anything stuck on. Comes out very clean.

I use the "heavy" cycle with the "sanitize" option. It takes 2 hours and 30 minutes to run the cycle. The time remaining is projected on the floor with LED lighting. You can't open it right away though or it won't be dry. I usually let it sit for 30-60 minutes before I open it. When I run the dishwasher at night, the dishes are bone dry when I get up. Of course if there is a coffee mug or something with a recess on the bottom there will be a small amount of water that collects.

I ordered a Bosch today - we'll see how it does, but I liked thaT I could get it local and from an independent business owner. They will also install it so worth the 95 dollars to not have to deal with that part.

I tested my plates in it and thanks to the angled prongs it will actually be able to fit more plates than my current one as I have to space them out or the bowls touch. Also like how easy it was to adjust the height of the racks and remove the third one if I need to.

I ordered the she68t56uc as the other one I looked at didn't seem to have an extra $400 of features that I needed. We already have a whole house water softener so can't see why I need one for the dishwasher too.

Please post back and let me know how you like it. I was also thinking about that exact model after playing around with an 800 plus in the showroom. The 800 plus had foldable tines (the first Boschs I saw didn't) which means a lot more weird dishes can fit in. I'm going to go back and look at the model you ordered, because I don't think I need the few extra things the 800 plus has. Still on the fence, but I hope yours works out for you.

Last year I bought a Jenn-AIR cook top and oven and as a promotion got a Jenn-Air dishwasher. I had a 3-year old GE profile that did an OK job after I switched dishwasher detergent from cascade to future power balls, but I decided to take the new one. I love it! it's the next top of their line,black glass, is so quiet and cleans beautifully. it has a sensor wash setting that does well, and does have the heated dry optional.

I know this is a little late in posting, but I wanted to actually use it for a while before reporting back. We finally got it installed a little over a month ago and I'm so far very happy with it.

We got the SHE68T56UC as I couldn't find enough differences with the 800 series that I cared about. It is very quiet, it fits way more stuff than my old dishwasher did, it doesn't dry things quite as good as I would like, but plastics are no different than the old one.

The one drawback I do have is that my tall pot doesn't fit unless I rearrange the racks which to me is more of a pain than washing it by hand.

Dishes comes out way cleaner and my glasses that had some kind of white haze that I thought was etching are returning to looking clear again. I only switched the dishwasher - not the detergent.

It does take about an extra 40 min than my old dishwasher, but it hasn't bothered me as I can fit so much that at times I end up putting some stuff in and running it not completely full as there isn't enough space to fit more plastics for example or glasses in the top and the bottom isn't fully filled. I have yet to be left with anything on the counter to feel like it is taking too long to run so I can load it again.

Edit: Forgot to add that I don't pre-wash the dishes except to scrape off large stuff, but DH does pre-wash, although he is starting to come around. So each wash is a mix of the two. Hopefully I can get a chance to test out it with nothing pre-washed at all, but I think it will perform well.

I took the wash filter out to clean as the installer said to do it if things started to smell. It didn't smell, but I figured I'd make it a monthly thing just so I it wouldn't get there. There was nothing in the filter so really didn't need to do it. I'm sure as I go along I'll figure out how often it will need to be done.

This post was edited by lyfia on Wed, Mar 12, 14 at 12:32

What detergent are you using? We have a Bosch that will be installed when the new kitchen build out begins, hopefully in my lifetime! I've read good things about Finish Quantum. In my old GE , I used Cascade powder which worked very well. I want to avoid etching glassware which seems to happen with some detergents.

We're still using Finish Powerballs (not the Quantum version) with our Bosch 800 series DW that's been in use for a few months. Everything comes out very clean and almost completely dry. It is miles ahead of any other dishwasher I've ever owned.

Thanks for the recommendation. This goes on my growing list of things I need to buy once the kitchen is finished. My old dishwasher was 20 years old, so the Bosch is a huge leap into the world of modern appliances.