Ellen, I think that since McD's started trying to compete with the coffee shops and have their McCafe drinks, the coffee has gotten better.

More expensive, too...

Annie

I positively LOVE their used coffee grounds (ucg). They are great in the compost pile, or as fertilizer just sprinkled all over your lawn and garden. :)

They give the ucg away for free. Just look in the store, someplace in a corner is a bucket, with BIG silver bags with ucg in it. Usually there is a sign that says: Free for your garden. :)

Moni

Starbucks all the way...

I found McDonalds coffee "blends"...latte and such DISGUSTING..smells delish....tastes awful...I'll take a Starbucks over them anyday. LOL

Speaking of Canada, one thing I noticed about Vancouver with regard to Seattle was that good coffee shops were everywhere in the West End of Vancouver long before they became popular in Seattle. I always thought that Seattle was copying a trend that had become popular in Vancouver. I spend a lot of time in Vancouver in the mid to late 1970s to early 80s with only brief stops or visits to Seattle. I blended in in Vancouver and people thought I lived there (I would stay for 4-6 weeks at a time in July-August), but in Seattle, the first thing anyone would say to me was, "Where are you from?" because I stuck out like a sore thumb.

I always like the coffee shops in Vancouver better than the ones in Seattle, and especially with regard to decor, but then I just didn't fit in in Seattle.

Lars

I am biased - my son is the manager of one in a nearby town. We love the Verona, especially when you buy the beans and have it ground. I also like the Tazo teas - but they are going away from tea bags now - same tea but I don't think they will have the African Red Bush that I love. I do like some of their frappicianos (sp?) and the shaken Passion Tea Lemonade is good for hot days.

I know the company has had a hard time the last year - but they really try to do right by their employees - offering health insurance for part time employees who work an average of so many hours a quarter and they are doing lots of great things to help our environment. Plus they send coffee overseas to our troops. I recently asked my son if they really sent much and he said that a retired military guy from a base nearby comes by to collect it from all the stores, they grind it for him and he mails it.

So yes I like their coffee, do BUY beans and have it ground (I don't get anything free) and I appreciate what the company does for its employees and the world.

Terri, that's how I feel about Starbucks, I've never gotten a cup of coffee there that wasn't completely disgusting!

I tried to get a cup of tea there but they only have "flavored" varieties, like Earl Gray or herbal stuff. When I asked if they just had plain black tea the smart a&& kid behind the counter at the Grand Rapids Airport informed me that only two people on earth still drank "plain tea", and that was me and the Queen Mother.

So, $3 for a cup of hot water and a tea bag and I still had to dunk it myself!

So.....I won't buy tea there either, LOL.

Sharon, I shoulda bought you a McDonald's gift card. (grin)

Annie

Mboston, thank you for telling us the good things that Starbucks does.
It's nice to read some positive comments.

The Starbucks here didn't last very long.
Think the population here doesn't have the right mentality for it. Nor the 'bucks', either.

It's been a rough year, economically.
For everyone around here.

And yes, I do like their coffee, and a number of the other treats they have.
But NOT their Pumpkin Scones!

Rusty

I stopped and got a cup of Starbucks just to do a "re-taste" test. I still love the stuff. It doesn;t taste at all burned to me, and I drink it black.

Oh well, chacun à son goût.

oooh Annie, and you held back?? You shoulda let him have it!

Mboston, see the link below.

Well living in the PNW, there are of course a lot of coffee roasters, and stands..Or town sustains TWO Starbucks shops..one is new and has the drive thru. Plus oh gosh 5 or 6 mini drive thru various shops and that is in a 5 mile radius. LOL And 1 local roaster, that roasts right in the store front.. Most drive thru use, local (as in the State) coffee roasters. I don't think anyone uses Seattle Best anymore except McDonalds..and it's certainly not the coffee beans that are the problem there. LOL

Here is a link that might be useful: Quick~Mboston...stock up on the last 3.

No problem Annie, the Starbucks card came in real handy in downtown, LA,and New Orleans......not a lot of McD's within walking distance of our accommodations but there were Starbucks !

I don't drink coffee but I absolutely love Starbucks' Chai Tea Latte. So much so that I am glad they are only in the larger cities here in Germany or I would have them way too often. I get one about twice a year when I go to Bonn or Cologne. I also buy their Tazo Chai TEa bags when I am there. Then I make my own latte here at home. Haven't exactly figured out the ratio for the concentrate, though.
I do drink Latte Machiattos every once in awhile, but I haven't tried Starbucks because I know they have very strong coffee and it probably won't appeal to me.
Lisa

For those who like tea (we love both coffee and tea), Mighty Tea is even better than Tazo. It's used in some of the better restaurants here, and I prefer it to those places whose staff just dumps a bunch of loose tea into a pot without measuring it, then pours boiling water over it (both no-no's).

There's many specialty tea shoppes that have opened up here, but if you're ever in San Francisco and want to go to Charlie Phan's famous Slanted Door Vietnamese restaurant, make sure you try some of their tea, whether hot or iced. He's a tea connoisseur and I've never had a better cuppa than at his restaurant. Ochame in Berkeley has magnificent teas, but their staff isn't as well trained as Phan's so they don't understand that one or two extra minutes actually can RUIN the subtlety of really fine tea such as Champagne Oolong.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mighty Leaf Tea

Thanks, jkom, I do love both tea and coffee, and I drink both, depending on my mood.

Annie

My SB drink is a bone dry cappucino, foam only, I occasionally crave that before dinner ;but we also have an independent coffee shop that beats any espresso I've ever had, anywhere in the world, I walk blocks to get a cap there.

I love Starbucks coffee, even though I am mostly a tea drinker. My granddaughter works for a Starbucks, and they are very good to their employees. She is happy to be working there. There is one in the Barnes and Nobles store in Kalamazoo. I really enjoy spending the day there looking, reading, and drinking coffee.

May I share a Starbucks story with you? This is not related to liking or disliking SB coffee but it's a favorite story of mine.

Years ago I worked as a computer consultant/proof reader for the original Starbucks Director of Training. He had recently left SB to pursue a career writing training books. Over time I got to know him well and made some SB connections and learned alot of names.

When the first SB opened up in New York City, I was there for a visit with my wife. The city was enduring one of those blistering heat waves that only East coast city dwellers can really appreciate. Summer in the city can be awful. My wife and I stopped at Starbucks after a fairly extensive walk, both overheated and warn out. I was unaware that my wife was dealing with a minor case of heat stroke. I sat with the new manager and dropped names and acted like I was somebody. After a pleasant visit and an iced latte each, we said goodbye and stepped back out into the heat. As we stepped onto the sidewalk, right smack dab in the middle view of the huge glass window of the busy store and our new "friends", my poor wife bent over and aggressivly threw up the contents of her latte and what ever else we had for lunch. All pretences of being a big shot dissolved, I took her by the arm and slithered away back into the city.

I'm in the "like Starbucks" group. I really want strong, dark coffee and that's what I can get from Starbucks. I can't tolerate milk in any coffee drinks, so I just stick to plain espressos, Americanos, or old fashioned coffee. I always get decaf too but have not had the problems others have mentioned. If I overdo caffeine, I end up with bouts of tinnitus. so I'm pretty careful about always drinking decaf tea & coffee.

I usually buy Starbucks whole bean decaf Sumatra from the kiosk in my local Safeway store. That's my favorite with decaf whole bean Cafe Verona as a close second.

I've purchased decaf pre-ground Tully's, Seatle's Best, Dunkin' Donuts, & Peet's too. They were all OK for a few days but eventually started to taste blah. I've also used Peet's Decaf Major Dickason's, Mocca Java, & Sumatra whole beans. They were very good, but they're much harder to find in local grocery stores and even at their regular stores.

Just to add to my post above - airport Starucks across the country and those along turnpikes (at least here in Florida), those in Target and Barnes and Nobles are whats called "affiliate" stores. I don't understand all the details but they use Starbuck products but are not "trained by Starbucks management". I know my son has been with the company for 6 years and has helped open several stores and trained many employees. One of the things he looks for are people who don't just consider it a job but people who love the "coffee culture". Yeah, I know it sounds crazy but if you visit the same store over and over, the "partners" get to know you personally, know your drink, and aim to please. If you are ever unhappy with your drink, let them know and they will gladly remake it or fix you soemthing else.

The coffee industry of now-a-days has turned me into a tea drinker.

When I was a teen-ager, I remember really good store brand coffee that you could get right off the shelves at the A&P and Acme....but no more! I remember the full-bodied, dark, satisfying rich tasting flavor. (and I don't mean burnt !!) that went so well with a piece of cake or an after-dinner desert!

Tea is not as satisfying for me, but it is a tolerable substitute. I would give anything if I could find coffee that tastes like the old-time, flavorful roasted coffee beans of old!

Starbuck's House Blend beans, regular and decaf, are available at Costco for a lower price, and that's where we buy them.

You can grind the bag's worth there at the store, but we grind them ourselves, a little at a time, and keep the rest of the beans in the fridge. Our small Cuisinart grinder was from J.C. Penney.

Hubby likes making our coffee himself, and adds varying amounts of French roast, espresso and/or piñon from Trader Joe's.

I'm surprised at how good the brewed coffee at places like McDonald's and Jack in the Box has gotten lately, and it's not terribly expensive.

boy, I was just thinking yesterday, $2.00 ($1.65 for cup +tip)is too much for coffee every day. But the Pike's Peak blend with 2 ice cubes can bring me out of the afternoon fog and into "git er done"!!
I have never seen my barista in a bad mood, either! She always seems genuinely happy to see me...(probably one of very few that do!)

First, my bias: I prefer very strong coffee with milk; cafe au lait is my preferred way to drink coffee.

Having said that, I find Starbucks to be over roasted and bitter. ("Charbucks") For a rich, full coffee I much prefer Community Dark Roast at half the price. Smoother, richer, all around better IMHO without the macho in-your-face burnt roast aspect. In Louisiana you can find 'C.C's' coffee shops competing with Starbucks.

They used to have the whole beans available; freshly ground Community Coffee was heavenly. The pre-ground is pretty darn good, though; I have everyone at my office addicted to it now.

Here is a link that might be useful: community coffee

When I was in Costa Rica, I fell in love with their coffee. They always serve their coffee with hot milk. I have been ordering Costa Rican beans since.

I was at a coffee importer's tasting facilities once. Very interesting that importers are not interested in aroma.
They only test tastes.

Here is a coffee tasting chart for serious coffee aficionados:
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dcarch

Ashley toured the Cafe Brit coffee plantation while she was in Costa Rica and said that the stuff there was better than anything she'd ever tasted, and she spent a couple of summers working in a coffee shop.

So, I ordered beans from Cafe Brit and sure enough, they didn't taste the same. Plus they got held up at the border by "Homeland Security" and it took me two months to get my order.

So, I'm sticking with my locally roasted Paramount, let THEM worry about getting the beans into the country!

Annie

I was always surprised how many people didn't know that green coffee is a) not really a bean, b( doesn't smell anything like coffee.

Dark roasting forgives many defects in both bean and roaster. My rule of thumb is to go into a roastery and look at their display cases. If all their coffee is basically the same degree of roast, I don't even bother to taste it. It's already clear that person has little knowledge or skill.

Thank you Lars! We had chickory coffee and beignet thanks to your mind jogging. It was really good. Not in New Orleans, with the fixings brought back from New Orleans. Not nearly as good as getting to hear the pigeons coo and sit by the ivy covered wall, but it was nice. I did, however, remember to wear black so I could fight staying clean with the powdered sugar. Ah, good times.

Here is a link that might be useful: cafe du monde

Renée, do you know of a widely available source of good beans, roasted with skill? Our local roasters are not good.

I sometimes buy SB coffee. The breakfast blend was one of the most amazing coffee's when I first access to it. Either my taster changed or the SB/BB is not the coffee is used to be... still good but not great.

These days I don't know. Shopped for coffee yesterday and was shocked by the prices. I've been drinking Maxwell House brand because Wallyworld has had is for under $6 a can for months. The South Pacific blend makes a decent cup of coffee for that price range. Mixed it up a bit with their Columbian variety. A can of the MH/SP was $7 yesterday and the gal with the price changer was running towards that stack of cans. Gotta laugh at Wallyworld as they put in a huge display of specialty coffee and now it is all marked down... that display will be gone soon. I did snag a bag of Sumatran for my christmas break that is now about gone. My usual default choice of Wallyworld's colombian was over $10 per can!

Very hard to find decent coffee. I'll buy the SB once in awhile hoping to get that great experience again but I'm usually disappointed enough to just buy the cheap stuff again for awhile.

Keep telling myself to get some raw beans and learn to roast. I've read a hot air popcorn popper works as a roaster and beans are available on the net. When I have time... when I have time...

: )
lyra

I know this won't change anyone's opinion, nor should it, but interestingly, Consumers Report rated Starbucks House Blend as the best caffeinated coffee.

CC - I really don't anymore. I've been out of the loop too long and many, many small roasters have closed in the the last few years. Intelligentsia out of the Chicago area used to be good. Maybe still is. I just haven't had any for a while. I finally found an OK roaster here, but they think far better of their coffee than we do. They're prices run double what we used to sell for, and, sorry, but the guy's just not that good. I've been buying Peet's Major Dickaons' and Mocha Java lately. It's not my idea, but it's a lot better than that Kingsford charcoal Sbux tries to pass off as coffee. (BTW, how ironic is is that the Evil Empire has a roasting facility is just down the street? Obviiously I didn't realize that when I moved here or I might have made a different decision.)

Lyra, You can roast with a hot air popper, but you have to modify the popper slightly, and still it's hard to control the temp and air flow. It's actually a lot easier (and safer) in a Whirly-Pop popper, but you want an older SS one rather than the aluminum ones. It's still tricky and takes a lot of patience, but it's a cheap way to go. For $300-500, you can buy a small home roaster (like a Behmor).

Thank you -- if you find Peet's drinkable, we'll certainly try it.

Ok, just got my latest Consumer Reports and as dedtired stated above, Starbucks House blend came in first. Here's the rundown FWIW :)

Starbucks House Blend
Green Mtn. Signature Nantucket Blend Med. Roast
Dunkin Donuts Dark Dark Roast
Allegro Blend Light Roast (Whole Foods)
Archer Farms Breakfast Blend (Target)
Kickapoo Organic Driftless Morning
Peet's House Blend
Sam's Choice House Blend Med. Roast (Walmart)
Eight O'Clock original
Melitta Classic Blend Med. Roast
Seattle's Best Breakfast Blend
New England Eyeopener Blend
Dunkin Donuts Original Blend Med. Roast
Folgers House Blend Med.

These were all rated in the good category.
Tracey

I've come to the conclusion that if Consumer Reports or Cooks Illustrated says anything is "the best", it's almost a given that it's something I don't like. I don't even have to know beforehand that they pick that particular one.

I rely on Consumer Reports and I like Starbucks coffee. Oh well, I'm weird.

I think CR gives good advice on what features to look for in certain items and also what useful and what's not. Something like coffee is entirely subject to taste so I don't see how they can rate that. I guess they just report the tastes of their testers.

It's interesting to note that there were NO grocery store coffees rated in the excellent or very good categories this year. Looks like there was a shortage of "high-quality arabica beans in Columbia." Here's a link to the article about the report if you are interested.

BTW, I also rely on Consumer Reports for information. They have trained testers for all their food/beverage testings. And yes, I understand that taste is definitely subjective and one person's love is another's hate :)

Tracey

In the coffee tasting/importer's place, I have seen several home green bean roasters/grinder/brewers. It would seem to me that they would make the best cup of coffee; but they look like thousand dollar machines.

dcarch

I do rely on Consumer's reports for information on appliances, cars, etc. I don't rely on them for their "tastings" because taste IS so subjective. I can almost gaurantee you that what their tasting panel likes, I won't.

I am a bit ticked at Consumer Reports, Elery bought me an on-line subscription for Christmas. I didn't even get a confirmation until YESTERDAY by email, so maybe Consumer Reports should have their panel do a study on themselves. Plus, I found that I can find some information, but if I want any information on health supplies, I have to pay more, and if I want information on cars I have to pay even more, and if I want information from them, there's no email to get ahold of them without scrolling through about a zillion screens. Their website sucks.

I almost never agree with Cook's Illustrated on their tastings either, and since I know that I'm only assuming that my taste is much different than theirs and so I don't base my choices on their choices, I do my own tasting.

I find Eight O'Clock pretty tolerable, but I've also found that the coffee I get at the Dunkin' Donuts shop and the stuff on the store shelf are nothing alike, and I don't like anything that is a "dark roast".

Ah, but what the heck do I know, besides what I like? I'm not a coffee roaster like Renee and her husband, I've never owned or run a coffee shop like she has and I'll never bother with a hundreds/thousands of dollar machine for any purpose, I don't like anything that much.

I like Twinings Irish Breakfast but I'll drink Lipton and I like McDonald's Mocha, skim milk please. I don't like the Dunkin' Donuts from the store but I like the stuff from the donut shop. And I don't like Starbucks, from the store or the shop, but if you put enough milk, caramel, chocolate and whipped cream in it, I can still drink it. Unfortunately, by the time I add all that stuff it's about six dollars a cup!

Oh, and I know that I stopped buying coffee from one of the local coffee shops because they starting using less and less coffee. When I bought a caramel mocha, I thought they left the coffee out, but no. Next time I bought a double and still not much discernible coffee flavor. I might as well have been drinking Swiss Miss, I complained and nothing changed, so I stopped going there and started going to the bakery here in town. Unfortunately, all their flavors taste like coconut, it's very odd. So, there's one local coffee shop left, 15 miles away, or McDonald's. if I drive 30 miles I can get a cup from Biggby's, which I really like, but then I have to drive 30 miles back home. If I get 15 miles per gallon and gas is $2.50, that becomes a $14 cup of coffee, a bit pricey for my taste.....

Annie

Annie, well you do know what you like and that's what matters. I agree that Dunkin' coffee in the bags tastes nothing like the way it tastes in the shop. I never go in there because I will come out with a dozen glazed chocolate donuts to go with my black coffee. The aroma gets me every time.

The calories and fat in those froo-froo coffee drinks is astounding. You may as well have a Big Mac.

Yup, $14 a cup is pricey! I drive all over looking for the cheapest gas. By the time I count the cost of gas used to get to the cheapo station, it isn;t cheapo any more.

CC, I will second the place I started getting coffee from..

I wasn't that impressed with the "strength" of the Dark Roast Sumatra(I usually go for Sumatran's)..but love the Med Roast Brazil..and am now blending them half and half..
And really enjoy the flavor of the Lt/Med Guatemala, but it's very light.

The beauty is they roast it, then send it..Each of the 3 I received where roasted the day they sent it...and each bean looked, smelled and felt different. The coffee club is sent Priority Mail for free...

My next order will be Dark Roast Brazil, and try something else...I like being able to get a feel for which one or ones I like.

Here is a link that might be useful: Camano Island Coffee

Thanks for the suggestion, Terri. I will check that out too.

Terri, what was the wonderful coffee you sent to me in a swap? That was terrific.

Love that link. I may try it.

This thread is definitely getting some mileage...

Evaluating and recommending coffee, especially grading outlets that brew it is a nearly impossible task:

Consistency in roasting coffee is the main thing that sets a master apart from the run of the mill roaster. Good espresso is almost always a blend of beans from different parts of the world all contributing to a certain aspect in the finished cup. The finished flavor of the combined beans is controlled by the taste buds of the roaster that does the blending. So the first challenge is finding a flavor profile that you like. The next challenge is getting that same flavor the next time they blend a batch for roasting. It's not too tough if their supply of green beans is large enough that they can simply follow a ratio of this bean and that bean the next time they blend from that stash of beans; they follow a recipe. The thing that sets the great roaster apart from the typical is the ability to achieve the same flavor profile when new beans come in from the growers. Simply using the bean from the same variety, even the same farmer, is not a guarantee because growing conditions alter the flavor of the bean from season to season. The master roaster must be able to tweak the recipe, and at times even introduce an entirely new varietal into the mix, in order to achieve the same flavor. This is no easy endeavor!

So saying, "I like Luigi's espresso roast from ACME Roasters" is no guarantee that it will taste the same the next time you buy it. Add to this the short life span of a roasted bean before huge flavor differences occur (2 weeks max), the ability or lack of ability to properly grind and brew the stuff, the quality of your water, etc, etc- coffee is a very crazy culinary world of variables.

I pride myself in having a very good knowledge of the subject, over twenty years of personal experience and pursuit, a ridiculously expensive set of brewing equipment; and I am constantly disappointing myself in my own ability to make a great cup of coffee. Espresso is the hardest. Even with pro equipment worth several thousand dollars and all of my skill, I think I can safely claim an 80% to 90% success rate in preparing what I consider a perfect shot. To get a success rate that consistent takes an almost insane degree of passion and concentration. There are definitly some exceptions but I find it so hard to buy a decent cup of coffee, I usually don't.

To repeat what I said earlier about the genious of Starbucks- their roasting style is the best one for producing consistency regardless of the person preparing it, assuming that person has a modicum of training. The delicate nature and subtle nuances of a light to medium roast is traded at Starbucks for a robust, almost singular monotone flavour. I don't like the stuff but I understand so many that do, because of the consistency and lack of surprise.

Follow your nose and your tastebuds. Not every flavor appeals to every person. Consider Liver and Onions for instance...

michaelp

Here is a link that might be useful: the prize...

Pam, that was Mukilteo Coffee and they are good too...There is one drive thru get up in town that uses their coffee..and by far my favorite place to get a breve or latte. But their pricing and availability is not as easy as Camano.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mukilteo Coffee

Thanks, Terri. That was good.

Michael, I wish there was any way in the world that I could rationalize getting that espresso machine!

Just to clarify, I'm not a roaster. That's DH's art and skill, which he took many years to learn. I just helped clean and made the drinks. :) He has more knowledge of the subject in his left thumb than I could ever hope to have.

Anyway, that was in another life.

Perhaps, Renee, but you know far more about the business of roasting coffee than I do and when I say I like a certain "flavor" or "taste" in coffee, you can turn that into a certain roast or type of bean that I like.

Annie

Whatever happened to:
"Chock full of nuts is the heavenly coffee,a better coffee millionaire's money can't buy"
?

dcarch

Annie, I just don't want anyone to get the wrong impression nor diminish what DH did. There are people out there -- heck, there's one within ten miles of me -- who buy a computerized roaster, take a three day class, and have the gall to put "roastmaster" on their business cards. That's like buying a professional oven and calling yourself a chef. DH was the "chef" in this case; I'm just the dishwasher. LOL!

Michael your posts are very informative. I really can't understand why I don't like Starbucks "coffee" with the caveat that I really don't drink "coffee" there, I drink expresso drinks without sugar--cappucino and latte being my drinks of choice. And I can't figure out why I like the expresso at Dunkin Donuts or the local grocery stores better than Starbucks. To me, their roasts taste "lighter" and yet their staff don't seem particularly skilled to me. I also like the cappuccino at Wegman's. Just not Starbucks. Maybe Starbucks is closer to the way cappiccino actually should taste. Not sure what goes for expresso in most places. Two of my friends have the 50 buck Mr. Coffee expresso machines and I loved what came out of those. And yet back when I was considering buying one (to appease my capp. jones), they were rated as HORRIBLE by people who claimed to be afficianados. There's not really much of a cappiccino culture in Allentown and I would hazard to say PA in general with some exceptions I'm sure. We had an explosion of coffeehouses in Grand Rapids MI when I lived there but I would hazard a guess that most of them have closed at this point. So I'm not sure if I've ever had a really fine cup of capp. but I seem to like it most places I get it, except for the stuff in the convenience stores which is full of sugar. But lots of people consider that "coffee" for their tastes.

As for regular coffee, since I like fair trade, I seem to have settled on Columbian as being the most tolerable at this point. Like you say, it is so odd, since you can get one batch of coffee from a company and you love it, and then buy it again and it is different. I dunno, I just know when it is done right, it is good. I like Dunkin Donuts coffee, who knows why, but it also seems to vary from time to time, and place to place. Nothing is foolproof with coffee!