Reading these forums might make you think no one does budget remodels, but most people who frequent these forums to talk remodels are in the upper 10% of expenditures in the country. 90% of the rest of the country is fine with "just a plain Frigidaire" and consider GE Profile "really upper end". It's just that view isn't reflected here, and questions about "regular" appliances get little response. That's not the real world. The real world isn't 100K kitchen remodels. It's $25K kitchen remodels, and maybe $15K remodels now that things are a bit more iffy. And I don't see 90% of America suddenly deciding to buy Gaggenau, Viking, and Wolf just because its a better "investment" than Amana and Hotpoint. Most people aren't obsessed by their kitchens and appliances the way folks are here! LOL!

LOL! Live Wire Oak, you so are right about that! In fact, I used to consider myself as part of 90% of America when it came to "designing" kitchens and baths and buying appliances purchases. Indeed, I was a Maytag/Whirlpool/Kenmore gal who was stunned by talk of four figure appliances (Five figure cooking and food preservation devices for the home consumer were simply unheard of.) Alas, just as I began to embark on my own reno processes at the height of the bubble, I discovered the GW community and got totally carried away with "big think." Now, only yesterday in fact, I posted here and on the KF about my hope for a Liebherr price correction. But, in this economy, what is more likely to happen faster is a Marthavila price correction! How do they say it -- the party's over?! :)

I agree completely. Who would have guessed 3 months ago where we would all be sitting now???

I am in the planning stages of a complete kitchen remodel on a home I bought in late September. My, how the world has changed!!! Hesitantly, I am planning on removing the 8 yr old Kenmore appliances to "upgrade". In these nerve-wracking times, I catch myself looking more at the mid-range brands for value and function vs just name. Price correction is right!

Hey thanks for your wonderful responses. I'm still wondering however, under the present circumstances, if I were to remodel my kitchen down the road, will the remodeling magazines, websites like GW, even kitchen planners, promote and recommend the value/performance in purchasing say, a suite of appliances from GE Profile (very good products IMHO), or will the luxury brands still be promoted as the "Must Haves".

I remember when I put in a very expensive Corian countertop a couple of years ago, many folks (who didn't have clue what my finances were) mentioned they were "very surprised" that I didn't go granite! Would these people now (if not wealthy) consider Corian or good old Formica suitable in this new environment? Look at what's happening in the car industry! Less is now more.

These thoughts are just that, thoughts...NO JUDGEMENT on other's insights and ideas.
Thanks all.

My mom started her redo with a KD. My estimate was $40k, KD's price was $65k. Budget was $25k. Instead of moving walls, electrical and plumbing, Mom kept the original layout as well as the new cabinets and granite. She went down a bit on appliances and one or two other things, but came in under her original budget. Oh,yes: she kicked out the KD and crew and found a different contractor.

I have to replace my stove top and refrigerator. Had I done this three months ago I would have bought much pricier appliances - induction instead of a simple ceramic top electric. Sub zero or similar instead of Kenmore Elite. Somehow I feel like this whole economy thing has been a reality check for me. Why spend several thousands when I can just spend thousands?

EggCream brought up a good point about advertising and rising expectations of the public effecting so many people's willingness to spend so much on the top tier appliances. Does anyone have any ideas why mass market products are not really discussed in this forum? It doesn't make sense to me.

It is hard to say. Rolls Royce sales are up 32%, go figure?!!?

I personally wouldn't bother waiting for a "what if". If you can afford it, buy it now. I have plans of a complete house renovation starting in the new year(I kinda put the cart before the horse and purchased almost 20k of appliances before the reno). As long as I can barely afford it, I will go ahead with it, and do my part to drag our economies out of recession.

I saw Maytag and Amana fridge-bottom-freezers today. Prices are faaaalling.

Imagine bottom-freezer fridges for hundreds, not one or two thousand. Technology is improving every week; manufacturing "new" technology costs less every week as new becomes standard.

Wait long enough and the middle of the market will catch up with all these so-called high-end products. It's already happened to dishwashers, microwaves, ovens and toasters. Even induction cooktops cost less. Sears (Kenmore) has an induction range that is gonna sell millions unless copycats come to market fast.

As it happens, high humidity fridges are now deemed the right thing to have, to keep vegetables and produce fresher longer. Just like what our grandparents once had. No more fans. Less and less cost. More and more simplicity.

David

I don't know, based on the stats that float around (in the free newspapers that fill my mailbox weekly) about remodel/addition cost versus resale investment, it seems that the majority of home improvements make a house more saleable but you're unlikely to get positive return on your investment. (Fixer-uppers not withstanding.) I think of a friend who recently moved into a house with a 36" AG DCS who would gladly trade it for the ceramic electric range that she bought shortly before selling her last house, and wonder why bother putting great stuff in unless YOU plan on using it. Am I wrong?

So I'm still wondering if the top-end appliance manufacturers will come down in price to appeal to what may now be a market less willing to spend the big bucks -- OR -- if the consumer end appliance manufacturers will enhance the appeal of their products to wow the slimmer sized wallets in the US. But most interesting to me,is whether the future appliance purchasers who are currently combing this forum today looking for recommendations will be happy buying a fancy Whirlpool oven instead of a Viking. In essence, will we be able to change our high end tastes and go back there again?

OK... I'm one ... one who had considered a high end frig... built in... and decided that in 10 or 15 years I'm still going to have an older frig that I'll either need to replace or would like to replace with whatever the future may bring. SO... I'm keepin' it real. Now that Kenmore (Electrolux) came out with an induction range I'm going to go for that or some other mid priced manufacturer that may come out with one by summer instead of spending on a DIva induction and wall oven installed UC. So far I"ve saved myself about 8K. I'll still get my Advantium, a chunk of change but by no means "high end". I've never had high end so it's not like I'm depriving myself of something to which I had become accustom. I could spend the money if I really really wanted to but it just doesn't feel prudent. I dont' have alot of money but have done well with the homes I"ve owned... (I'm a teacher so you know I don't have alot of money!). I'm more then comfortable with my decision to go mid range; more so I think then if I went with expensive appliances.

There are tremendous deals to be had on appliances. Last night I was looking at a $2100 Kitchenaid refridge at Sears -- which was down to $1999 and then another 15% off, so $1849.

I went home, did some online pricing research, ordered the exact same for $1370 (delivered). I live in NJ -- and there are quite a few distributors around here - that are selling at low prices.

I would imagine that its the same in larger metro areas.

/p

Historically, in such comparative industries such as the auto industry, high-end manufacturers dealt with such situations by offering lower-priced models with reduced specification to achieve a lower price point. Unfortunately, reducing quality also came into the picture, and several manufacturers reputations suffered or didn't survive as a result. Moving forward, people will still desire what they like, but will demand it at a lower price and that will drive new competitors' offerings.
Currently, people will look harder for deals or other means to get what they desire for less, or prioritize their purchases to offset costs. I was for example, lucky to get closeout-models of the "pro" brand range and refrigerator ( floor model) I wanted for a savings of about $1400 over today's price in order to hit my reduced budget target.

Nalcar,Petinsonj,remodelfla....really enjoyed reading your comments. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Have a great Turkey Day.
EC

I think there will be a trend back towards lower priced, more modest appliances. People just can't get the big chunks of cash out of their homes anymore, so they'll have to work on a smaller budget and save for what they want. When you have to save, you are more apt to go for something less expensive because you can have it now vs. saving another six months.

I am one of those how doesn't think there will be much change. The high end appliances are not must haves. Folks look at them and THINK they have to have them but really no one is forcing us to get them - magazine, TV, web site or not.

I think the high end stuff will still be around and will still cost more than their cousins. How many will be able to afford it will be the question..it may not be me, but of course some will, so the adjustment will come to those who can't.

If I were starting anew in this market, I would look for appliances with the best service history and one's that will last a LOOOOONG time whether that would be Kitchenaid or sub zero/wolf would have to be determined with lots of research.

We bought "high end" GE Monogram appliances just 1 yr ago. Both the fridge and freezer (they are stand alone units) are being replaced by the appliance store because GE won't or can'fix them. Thank goodness they are still in warranty. We are going even higher end with Miele but we expect these units to out live us. They're paneled so if we ever redo the kitchen they can be updated. And Miele cs is stand apart above the rest.

I think there will be some drastic shake-out of all high-end products. Many "high-end" of today are simply marketing gimmicks with conventionally top brands offering watered down products, Mercedez being one prime example of that. C series obviously appeal to those who want the brand but cannot afford the price tag, it is NOT a real Mercedez, the same goes for those driving a M series, if they had money, they would have gone for G. So lots of those "top brands" will end up evaporating because they don't really offer enough for the very few people with money left. I am willing to pay the top dollar, only for the top quality, and more. It is a joke that Bosch or Electrolux even try to charge a premium here, they are just the Maytag and Frigidaire of Europe.

I have put off my remodeling for about 8 years so that I did't compete with stupid borrowed money for the same thing at a premium. I just signed on a general contractor who is taking 50% cut from his last quote in 2007, but I offered him a 15% bonus based on performance so he is busting his ass working for me, because very few people can afford big scale remodel right now, and I particularly pick winter, the slow contractor season to get a further price break. My budget stayed the same, but I am able to stretch my money so much further.

I am going for top range stuff, Miele, Gaggenau, but I am able to get them from foreclosed properties at a fraction of what the original home debtors paid for them. I own my home free and clear, and "drove" my appliances and fixture to the ground, while these home foreclosees borrowed up to their eyebrows "investing in" upscale stuff but can't even put food on the table. Check out your local craigslist, there are so many great deals, particularly from people whose high end homes are going through pre-foreclosure so the debtor is trying to recoup whatever he can. Some of the appliances are barely used at all. Even for brand new never-used stuff, the discount is deep.

So, many of these faux high end appliances will be game over, because nobody will pay that kind of premium for that type of quality, now that all that debt money suddenly disappeared, and not coming back for a long time. The true high end will stay, but they will have to try harder, by either dropping price to meet the market, or offering better quality and more unique features.

Congrats, remodel2009. Sounds like you got a great deal. May I ask whether you received full warranty coverage for all the appliances you purchased from foreclosed properties?

Whatever everyone's appliances, I hope they perform at or above expectations and last a good, long time.

remodel2009 - Benz has watered down the G series now too. The good folks in AL now bring you the GL which is a glorified minivan with reduced costs for Daimler because they aren't paying Austrian labor rates or social taxes. They capitialize on the "G" pedigree and flog off another medicore product on an ignorant consumer.

I got insulted when an appliance salesman referred to the Miele dishwasher as the "Mercedes of dishwashers". I was tempted to ask him whether he drove the "Cadillac of minivans" in response but instead changed the subject to the presence of the salesperson with whom we'd spoken previously.

Chipshot- why would you be insulted about an auto analogy for a dishwasher?

Antss, I can see that a crucial piece of information was missing from my story. During our brief conversation the salesman learned that I worked for another car company. So he could have chosen another brand to make his point.

You don't seem to be much of a fan of Mercedes, at least not the (relatively) lower-price ones.

Just a note on big spending renovations. Last Saturday on Weekend Today (NBC) NYC chief real estate honcho Barbara Cochran said that this is NOT the time for costly kitchen renovations, even in NYC! She feels the investor will not get their return on investment anytime soon. Cochran suggested doing smaller sprucing up projects like replacing counter tops, adding a new focal point appliance, new lighting to freshen up existing kitchens,etc. This does not reflect my opinion nor should anyone renovating feel uncomfortable, but I thought it was interesting to hear this from a local pro who sells multi-million dollar properties.
A Happy New Year to Everyone !!!!

Just to report in on TurboChef increases effective Jan 1. The single TurboChef will go from 6K to 8K. The double oven will go from 8K to 10K. I ordered the single oven yesterday to avoid the giant increase. Anyone have any ideas why they would take such an large increase?

because raw material prices have gone up since last year at this time and sales are not tremendous.

Wasn't it the TurboChef that recently received a very favorable write-up in Consumers Report?

no, it's a show of strength to raise prices. Period. Not because you might claim that some material costs more. Just because you want more money per each sale, in order to fund new initiatives in the future, and because you can. Yes you can, if you do it and people buy.

david - I'm not CLAIMING that raw material cost are up. It's a FACT. Steel prices are up, plastic prices are up. These are 2 large components in appliances. A family member of mine is in the steel business and a couple in our supper club owns a polymer business. Their prices aren't up because they aren't good shoppers or they're looking to remodel their beach houses at customer's expense. This is real world info from 2 co.s with global presence.

Pricing an appliance is way more complex than the stuff cost me X, the labor was X, overhead was X, marketing is X, and I want X margin and profit.

Chipshot- think anyone buying an 8 grand + oven is looking at CR for affirmation of there descision? Think CR has a sufficient sample rate to predict reliability of the TurboChef? How long has it been on the market? Is that long enough for CR to draw any conclusions about it especially since it's from a new co. ?

You're right about being prices going up just because you are able to do it, but thats not a popular stance around here.

Pricing an appliance is way more complex than the stuff cost me X, the labor was X, overhead was X, marketing is X, and I want X margin and profit.

Antss: Why? Spacecraft and rocket bids are priced that way.
What makes an appliance more complex than a space vehicle?
(I could speculate on an answer since you say it is, but I'd like to know what precisely you believe makes appliance pricing so complex.)

And, chipshot, Mercedes is trying to overcome the "damage" they did to their profile when they proferred versions to cater to the large mid-range market. Across the board they're now doing things to reverse that impression that this is anything but a top-dollar exclusive brand. Now, not all of their advertised efforts are anything more than mere market-mouthing rather than real engineering enhancements but the fact remains that this correction is something Merc is actively engaged in.
Not, mind you, that I decry them either their lower end lines nor their marketing attempts to re-establish their exclusivity - after all, the Merc-McLaren (okay, so it is now defunct but whatever) or the engines they make for Pagani Zonda should absolve them of all crimes. No? ;-)

I am looking at an 8-10k range and would look to CR for affirmation.

I suspect a lot of the price increases were planned before the entire world economy had a melt down. Those that fail to realize that things have changed will fall.

I would never, ever buy a range that went from 8k to 10k in this environment. Frankly, I'd feel ripped off and I would expect that the manufacturer's future was in doubt. Excessive consumption has gone the way of the do-do bird.