I am a little confused. It's not the ideal situation, but I may well have to put a wall oven under the GE induction cooktop that I am planning to get(most likely the Monogram). My understanding is that clearance is needed underneath for airflow to help keep the unit cool. However, if one places a wall oven underneath it, even though the installation directions say that you can, does that not restrict the amount of airflow to the unit? Also, with everything being electronic, does the amount of heat from the induction unit damage the oven at all, or vice versa, does the amount of heat generated from a self cleaning oven affect the induction unit?

The install instructions for the GE also say to not have a shelf wider than 18" from the back of the cabinet, and it seems like a built-in oven would violate that. The airflow is from vents in the front (beneath the counter surface) to two small muffin fans on the bottom surface. Without a place to draw in fresh air, it seems like you would just be recirculating the hot air beneath the unit (in the 12" space or whatever you get with an oven). Maybe that's enough to keep the electronics cool. I'm going to go conservative and try to provide some air circulation into and out of the base cabinet, and the pots and pans I store there won't be combustible. I'll still be violating the 18" shelf rule however if I put a deep drawer for pots there. I wish GE would clarify these instructions...

I have the 30" Electrolux with a wall oven below it. I'm a pretty serious cook and I can't tell you how much I love induction. The cooktop has been installed for about 6 weeks and I'm like a kid in a candy store! I had the 'don't walk away or the pot boils over' experience. The power and speed are wonderful - far more efficient than what I expected. I weighed the slightly less power of the Electrolux with the size of the hobs. I needed as large a diameter as possible given that I've got some big stockpots. The level of control over the temperature is also a big bonus -- I've been able to melt chocolate directly on the hob, make custards and sauces without fear of scorching the bottom, and sear meat beautifully. So far, I am able to do pretty much anything I've needed to do and don't expect that to change. On occasion, someone has posted that you can't pick a pan up off of induction to flip whatever is in the pan. While the hob will give an error indicator if you pick the pan up, I still can flip what's in the pan -- the hob does not shut off immediately if you pick the pan up.

I don't find the lack of a timer to shut down the hob an issue. I doubt that I would use the function if it were there. I've rarely found that the timing on recipes is exact and I'd rather rely on sight, sound, smell and taste.

Pecanpie: What a wonderful idea regarding avoiding spatters! Thanks.

The GE Monogram 36" induction can be gotten for $1,784 and is a far more powerful unit than the others mentioned above and is even a little less expensive than the Profile--maybe because the black Profile has stainless trim and the Monogram can be melded perfectly with granite or quartz countertops. I prefer the idea of no crud accumulating on the stainless frame or even discolorations or scratch marks.

The Profile or Monogram can be installed above a built-in oven, as ovens are insulated. It doesn't require much ventilation space in this scenario--maybe a couple of inches. Certainly cabinet doors are the superior method to put under any induction unit. You can even put in sliding metal basket shelving or even sliding wood shelving, as long as the top shelf isn't closer than 12"to the induction unit. This is totally for safety sake, not for ventilation. They just don't want potentially flammable products closer than a foot to the unit. As a built-in wall oven isn't flammable that is why it is alright, but with my back I don't want to be bending down lifting hot pans or roasts out of the oven. I don;t mind keeping a large collection of pots and pans down there as they aren't flammable and I won't have to be lifting anything dangerous or that heavy out of that area. I put most of my pots and pans in this area. Cookie sheets and other trays I put above my wall oven and the microwave above it in a cabinet with tray slots. On the bottom is warmind drawer which I almost never use, unless I am entertaining a large group.

Greg

Twelve inches from the bottom of the unit? Oski, you're not suggesting that this GE cooktop creates more heat under the unit than on top are you? Imagine that, totally safe cooking on top of the unit but your kitchen bursts into flames because of the heat generated under the cooktop. LOL.

The Ge may be a good alternative for those whose budgets prohibit the purchase of higher end appliances. Just don't keep anything flammable within a foot of the cooktop. ;-)

We just installed a Fisher and Paykel 30" wall oven beneath a 30" Windcrest induction cooktop. Windcrest purports to have the lowest clearance needs of all the induction models at 2.5". To be on the safe side, we drilled some holes into the adjoining cabinets for extra ventilation, though the instructions did not call for this.

We met all of the requirements for ventilation and clearances and distance from combustibles.

We're working with a very small space and this was the best option for us.

We've only been using them for 2 days now, but I love both the F&P oven and the cooktop so far. We made some deliciously browned and juice pork chops for dinner the other night. Great smokeless broil system.

And the cooktop is so responsive! Water boils amazingly fast. I'm so glad we opted for the induction.

Sorry not to respond to your request sooner, try hard, I've been out of town.

I cannot remember offhand the price of the Brandt, but will try to look in my files and pull it up. I remember watching the US and NZ exchange rates and trying to get the best deal!

try again, email me privately and I will get you the information I have on the price of the Brandts.

pecanpie: It's okay -- I do not need that info anymore. I have decided to go with the 36" GE Profile! Thanks anyway!

try_hard
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Oskiebabu: You said:

...The GE Monogram 36" induction... is even a little less expensive than the Profile--maybe because the black Profile has stainless trim and the Monogram can be melded perfectly with granite or quartz countertops. I prefer the idea of no crud accumulating on the stainless frame or even discolorations or scratch marks...

However, this contradicts with what my appliance dealer and I found last weekend while researching GE's appliance catalog and website. The 36" GE Profile is supposedly available in two models: one with the stainless steel trim (or frame) and one withOUT the trim. I am getting the model without the trim because, like you, I don't want the trim to interfere with cleaning.

I am concerned that your information and mine do not match. Will you please provide your source for this information because if this is really the case, I may need to revise my appliance order and select the Monogram unit. Thank you.

try_hard
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try_hard
Everything that I have researched online indicates that the Profile comes in two models-one with stainless trim and one without.
I would like to know what the internal differences are between the Profile and Monogram. I understand that the Monogram gas ranges are made by DCS, but what about their electronic product-cooktops, wall ovens, etc? Is one better than the other? The induction cooktops sure look the same, except for the elements on the Monogram being circled in blue versus the gray speckled ones on the Profile.

Moose_2007: my research agrees with yours in that the Profile and Monogram 36" induction cooktops have all the same specs but different logos. I could not find any evidence that the Profile unit is only available with a frame. This makes me wonder, why pay more for the Monogram model? Maybe the warranty is longer or...?
Try_hard
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We've been thinking about switching from an electric cooktop to induction, but have large drawers under the cooktop. When you read the induction cooktop spec sheets, they suggest not having drawers under the cooktop. We could put an oven under the cooktop, and put drawers where our wall oven is now, but that would be quite a bit more expensive.

For the Electrolux or Sears 36" induction cooktop, does anyone have an actual vertical distance that drawers should be below the cooktop if you have them? There is a space now below the cooktop to the top of the top drawer, but I don't know if it is enough. I would be worried about heat induced in metal objects that are in the drawers now (like baking tins, etc.).

Or is there some sort of shield that can be put between the bottom of the cooktop and the top drawer to allow closer spacing here?

Any comments about drawers under induction cooktops?

Thanks.

-Roger

Sorry, I just looked down a couple of threads, and see that there is a whole thread on depth of various cooktops and drawers under them.

Never mind *smile*.

-Roger

I spoke with my Appliance salesman and the GE Monogram is about the same price as the GE Profile. This leaves me wondering which one I want. If the only difference truly is the blue circles around the hobs on the Monogram, I guess I would go with the Profile just for the cleaner look.
try_hard
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Some info for others who may be considering the GE Profile induction cooktop. I had looked at all of the normal places that carry higher end appliances, but could not find the GE induction. Then, while walking thru my local Home Depot--there it was! I bought it last month, and with the GE rebate (check GE online to see what's being offered when), a HD delivery charge rebate, and a HD gift card for buying an appliance over a certain amount, I got several hundred dollars off the price.

Can't wait until our kitchen is finished so I can use it. I'd intended to go from a smoothtop electric to a new gas cooktop, but after reading about all of the pluses to induction it made sense to me to spend the extra money. The safety aspects (I'm getting older) and no heat in the kitchen made it a no-brainer.

Anne

Thanks to you all! I was sure I was in love with the Wolf rangetop and its high powered burners with the simmer setting. I always loved gas stoves until I moved into this house and met the wimp that came with it. In fact, I really learned to cook on a simple gas ring.

You all convinced me to try induction. I got my Mr. Induction single hop on Thursday, and I'm pretty well convinced! (Gotta have a couple of gas burners (Wolf, natch!) for the non-ferrous part of life.)

Today I made my favorite Marsala sauce that has never come out right in this house. It was very easy to get the settings right with only 9 to choose from, and even though it finished much more quickly than I'm accustomed to, it tasted just right. And the warming feature is such a boon!!

I just wish that the actual cooktops came in the same nice white. Sigh.

I agree. My cooking has never been this good. Induction has been a real blessing in my kitchen.

DH talked me out of adding a couple of induction burners to our new build because he thinks the hidden energy consumption of generating electricity makes induction less efficient than people think. I do not know how to compare total energy usage between the two technologies. Can someone help me out here? Also, we are on propane, not natural gas, so how does that affect the difference?

See the link with regards to efficiency. But I don't know what he means by "total energy usage". Nor "the hidden energy consumption of generating electricity". If you use gas then they will generate less amps from Niagara Falls? And the electrical wires can be less insulated?

Here is a link that might be useful: Induction cooking: How it works

Where we are the electricity is generated at a coal-burning plant. So use of coal, energy to convert coal to electricity, etc. contributes to the overall consumption of energy involved with an electrical appliance, even if the device uses electromagnetism. The question is, though, how does one compare the two? I'm not understanding your question about wire insulation.

(1) You're going to determine the cost of producing KWHs of electricity via coal-burning versus the cost of extracting propane gas? Well, that would be interesting and challenging. Add in the environmental and health aspects, etc from coal burning and the cost estimation seems VERY challenging.
(2) "less insulation" - It was a poor jibe at microefficiencies.

Right. That's the issue. Big, huh?

You might want to try this bulletin board where engineers are talking shop about induction :) It's one of the things that convinced me after I read so many good things about it here.

Here is a link that might be useful: Engineering BB

"DH talked me out of adding a couple of induction burners to our new build because he thinks the hidden energy consumption of generating electricity makes induction less efficient than people think. I do not know how to compare total energy usage between the two technologies. Can someone help me out here? Also, we are on propane, not natural gas, so how does that affect the difference?

You're joking, right? You're spending tens of thousands of dollars on a kitchen remodel, and you're basing your selection of cooking technology on a few dollars per year difference in theoretical cost between the two technologies? Does the phrase "Penny-wise and pound foolish" mean anything to you?

For the record, propane is substantially more expensive per BTU than natural gas, so if operating cost really is your overriding concern, that tilts the operating cost balance even more solidly in the direction of induction.

And please forgive my contentious tone--we have this marine-layer fog thing going this morning, and Mr. SolarPowered has gotten his shot of sunshine yet today.

That would be, "hasn't gotten his shot of sunshine"...

When thinking about the energy efficiency of induction cooking, consider heat loss. Creating heat to cook takes energy, correct? Losing heat, wastes energy, follow? Induction has 0% heat loss. Savvy? Every watt is used to its fullest potential.

So even if the cost of propane or natural gas is less than that of electric to power the induction cooktop, the amount of heat loss is substantial enough to actually make it cost more.

Since remodeling my kitchen, which included a change from radiant heat electric cooktop to induction, my electric bill has noticeably dropped. I'm not saying that this is due to just the cooktop, we changed everything, but I'm sure it's contributing to the savings.

Has anyone who has switched from any other source, even gas, to induction seen an increase in their electric bill?

"...hidden energy consumption of generating electricity..."

While no energy-production process is 100% efficient, generating electricity is probably the most efficient industrial process there is. Furthermore, coal-fired electricity is made either right at the mine or convenient to the railroad used for hauling the coal. And electrical generation is going to go on no matter what, and the tiny fraction needed for cooking would have essentially no impact on overall operations.

Natural gas and propane are generally brought in from overseas. They also require a considerable amount of processing to get them into burnable form. And then propane gets an added hit of having to be trucked to the user in heavy tanks. And then, on top of all that, a lot of the cooking heat is wasted and in summer may even add to air-conditioning bills.

Induction is fattening--really wonderful for candymaking.

Well since I started this thread I'll give you an update -- we decided to go with the GE Profile 36" induction cooktop, no stainless trim. The house won't be ready until the spring, so I cannot yet tell you whether I like it! But I have absolutely no regrets or concerns about going this direction. On the contrary, I am really excited about it!
Thanks to everyone for the feedback!
try_Hard
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Outstanding. Good luck and enjoy.

Actually, I wasn't thinking of cost so much as total energy footprint, i.e. the big picture, not just the bill at my house. I'm continually astonished by the self-righteous and pejorative tone of voice manifested by holier-than-thou self-identified environmental enthusiasts in response to honest and well-motivated questions. Especially when they have little information about what fuel sources are available in remote areas.

Coal-burning electric power plants put a lot of junk into the air, including radioactivity (believe it or not). If your electricity comes from coal-burning power plants, it is something to consider when you're looking at appliances and so on.

It also puts a different slant on electric and "plug-in hybrid" cars, but that's a different forum *smile*.

Here is a link that might be useful: Costs of using coal for power plants

Hey kitchendetective, you wouldn't be Dennis Miller, would you? Your post goes on like one of his monologues. You know, with talent like that, you may be able to get a Hollywood writer job soon...

Read on only if you want more info on the environmental comparison.

Figuring out the total environmental impact of a cooking fuel on a lifecycle basis (ie, from mining to the energy you use in your house) is very difficult. But if you consider the carbon emissions from the point at which the fuel is processed, you can figure out whether the emissions from gas or induction cooking are likely to be greater. Without doing the full calculation, here's how it works:

For every kWh used in the induction cooktop, about 3 kWh need to be generated at the power plant. The other 2 kWh are lost in getting to your house over the electric grid. For every therm used in the gas cooktop, about 0.05 therms are lost in distribution from the provider to the house. No question induction cooktops themselves are much more efficient in getting the energy to the food than gas cooktops. But the inefficiency of the electric grid outweighs this advantage. In other words, more energy is used to provide a unit of induction cooking than to provide a unit of gas (or, probably, propane) cooking. Whether the carbon emissions are greater for a specific induction unit depends on how the electricity was generated. If, for example it was generated with wind power, the emissions are essentially zero. But using the national average mix of fuels used to generate electricity in the US (coal, gas, etc), gas cooking wins.

OK, that's the end of my lecture.

Nope, not Dennis Miller. Just someone who didn't appreciate being treated like an idiot because another poster didn't have a sunny day and was moved to make plenty of unwarranted assumptions. However, I have now received two lucid responses, so I'm feeling better. (I have also emailed a professor at MIT, from whom I expect a response.)

KDetective, seemed like a reasonable question to me, but not knowing, I didn't answer. :-P Let us know if you find out anything interesting!

People sure do get touchy about energy these days, don't they!?

Yes, and I should be more understanding about solar-powered's need for sunshine, too. It's just getting so difficult to get answers based on reason instead of on who has a dog in the race. Honest, I just want to do the best thing, which may vary from region to region. Also, I'm not thinking of spending tens of thousands of dollars, I'm just trying to figure out if I should add two induction burners to my current set-up. And if "electricity will be generated no matter what, so whether I use induction or not doesn't matter" then I guess I can throw out all the compact fluorescent bulbs that I used to replace my old ones, since I changed the bulbs in order to conserve electricity. (That would please me to no end, since every one of 'em comes from China, including the ones with U.S. company names on them, they have to be freighted here, they don't last as promised, and they contain mercury, to boot.) Plenty of people hold up Europe as more advanced than the US. Induction is popular in France, I'm told, where nuclear power is, too. (I lived there a loooong time ago and had a funky electric cooktop with coils. Never again, no matter what the source of electricity is, by the way, even if the electricity source is downright saintly.) I have seen coal-using power plants belch some ugly looking stuff into the air, and I'm quite sure some mercury, too, as well as everything in that very useful link from a poster above, which I appreciate. So, my point is that it's a complex issue that doesn't just affect my utility bills. I'll continue to study up on it.

BTW, a neighbor built a 900 square foot, completely off-grid house recently. The on-grid version would have been $50,000 less than what she built. Folks around here have actually made it a point to use less power, and it's expensive to do so. People are willing to pay, to a point. The local electricity co-op decided that since their revenue went down as a result of less usage, they should raise their rates! How ironic. So, now electricity is suddenly way more expensive than it was last time I calculated it (6 months ago).

KD, to attempt a more reasonable answer, I look at it this way: With propone, you're always going to be burning propane, and it will never improve (short of changing it out for something else). With induction or any other electric appliance, there is always the potential for the electric utility to change technologies behind the scenes. They may be burning coal today, but next week they just might put a natural-gas-fired peaking plant on line, which is much cleaner. And in a couple years or five, they could be using nuclear, with no carbon "footprint" at all. (Depending on how you feel about nuclear power.)

However, what I just said isn't totally accurate, because the electric utilities are interconnected into three major grids in the U.S. So, while your local utility may have a coal-fired plant, the eletricity it produces is really going into a common pool, and the power you are drawing comes from all over the region. So its "footprint" is pretty much the average of whatever is connected to the grid.

Also, it's not really true that "electricity will be generated no matter what"--ultimately, some sort of energy source is consumed for all the energy that is drawn from the grid. On a micro scale, if you're not drawing power, the voltage in your area on the grid goes up just a tiny bit, your neighbors' lights burn just a little bit brighter, their ovens heat up just a little faster, and so forth, and whatever power is being fed from the utility gets consumed one way or another. But on the scale of large averages, the utilities adjust the amount of fuel they are consuming to keep the voltage of the grid at their target levels, and the power are or aren't drawing does enter into that picture, if only in just a very tiny way.

You could try alternative energy, or make your home self powered or buy hyper-energy efficient appliances or go solar off the grid.

But isn't that another forum?

KD was scoffing at the "electricity will be generated no matter what" remark, I do believe.

GW does have a renewable energy forum. Might be a better place to get ideas on how to research, and probably a bit more hospitable. :)

A fair comparison of cooktop fuels shouldn't be about the impacts of bringing the first unit of power to the house, but the marginal impacts of the last one.

The infrastructure required for generating and distributing electricity will be the same whether or not you use electricity for cooking. We'll still have the same power plants, the same distribution lines, and your house will also be wired for electricity. So the only impact of using induction would be heavier-duty wiring for one circuit, plus the small increase in fuel usage needed to generate a small increase in electrical demand.

Even if a household uses a lot of propane for other purposes, cooking with it would likely increase piping, storage and/or delivery, all of which have impacts.

To be consistent, if you are concerned about the losses of energy or environmental impacts of generating and distributing electricity, you should also look at what is involved in capturing, compressing, cleaning, fractionating, transporting and delivering propane. It's not as if it starts out in those tanks.

I just took the plunge and went for induction after researching it for months! I'm so excited. I decided to buy the DIVA since they have been making them for a long time and have hopefully worked out all the kinks, I've had gas for years. I went to a live kitchen chef show and pro chef told me hands down induction was his favorite method. I won't have it installed for a few months. I really hope the technology sticks here in the USA

Mine's over 20 years old! It's late, but it's sticking, finally!

I am considering the induction cooktop with my kitchen remodel.

I am reading above about airflow under the unit. Under my cooktop are 2 pull out shelves for pot storage. Is that going to cause a problem? I ask because of what was said above and quoted just below here:

Posted by blt_in_nm (My Page) on Sat, Oct 20, 07 at 12:31 "The install instructions for the GE also say to not have a shelf wider than 18" from the back of the cabinet, and it seems like a built-in oven would violate that. The airflow is from vents in the front (beneath the counter surface) to two small muffin fans on the bottom surface. Without a place to draw in fresh air, it seems like you would just be recirculating the hot air beneath the unit (in the 12" space or whatever you get with an oven)"

Am I going to have a problem storing pots and pans under the cooktop and I truly do NOT understand the 18 inch shelf comment? Is the 18 inches meant back to front or?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can clear this up for me. Asking some of the salesman is like asking the little boy next door. So many really have no clue beyond the price.

In response to debbie_2008, I have purchased the Electrolux 36"model and when I gave the installation instructions to my cabinet maker he didn't seem to think there was any problems. I will be having 2 39" wide deep pot drawers below my stove top. Also the Electrolux sits a little higher than the counter top and has vent holes all the way around it. Check to see if the GE has the same feature or maybe a model with these vent holes would be the answer for you. All I know is that when I tested the induction stove top out at my appliance store I was sold instantly and I have been using gas for about 4 years now. Good luck to you.

cbjmidwood and others who were discussion efficiency, carbon emissions, etc. In my opinion the efficiency issue is pretty much a wash. Power generation is probably somewhere in the 30% efficiency range. Once the power is generated induction cooktop efficiency is in the 90% range, which we can roughly round off to 100%, so the overall efficiency for induction cooking is roughly 30%.

Gas burners waste about 2/3 of the heat value of the fuel. That puts gas and induction at roughly the same overall energy efficiency.

However note this: combined cycle gas turbine power stations are said to be 60% efficient (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_generation). In this situation cooking with induction would be far more efficient than cooking with gas. This would also give induction a far smaller carbon footprint than using gas directly for cooking.

When we afre generating electricity from wind, solar and nuclear there will be signifcantly lower carbon foot print.

Efficiency has nothing to do with carbon footprint. Solar panels are only 20-30% efficient, yet produce ZERO carbon emissions to produce power from the biggest nuclear reactor in the solar system -- the sun.

I have an induction cook top and 50% of the power I buy from my utility company is green and renewable. I am confident that I create far less carbon emissions than my neighbors who cook with gas or a ceramic cook top.

If someone could design a system for me whereby I can utilize solar energy during the day to split H from water and then store that hydrogen in subterranean tanks, then run that hydrogen through a fuel cell to power my home, I would be in heaven. It's the perfect solution -- utilize solar during the day to power your needs and store additional hydrogen to power your home at night or on cloudy days.

Anyone? :)