I haven't found the salt necessary (and would like to deactivate the machines pesky reminder), but your water may be completely different than ours. As for detergent, the Miele tabs (half at a time) have produced excellent results. I'm not inclined to look elsewhere. I believe ABT carries both. They've provided top-notch service every time I've purchased from them.

Thanks for your response. Is ABT the online retailer you referred to? I just went to that website and saw Miele appliances but not accessories. Do you use Miele rinse aid too? Thank you,
PQ

I use Miele tabs, but have stuck with Jet Dry so far. I've ordered the tabs from ABT, with no problems, but got them this last time through Amazon.com, with no S/H and a little cheaper on the price (than ABT).

Just checked for you and a different co. is listed (than the one offering when I'd ordered through Amazon):

http://www.amazon.com/Miele-06848090-Dishwasher-Tabs/dp/B000RZJO82/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=hpc&qid=1224803180&sr=8-3

Below is the link to ABT's page with the Miele Tabs.

Here is a link that might be useful: ABT--Miele tablets

Thanks to everyone for your responses. I'm relieved to hear that store bought enzyme based detergent is OK. Seams like $35 a box for the Miele tabs is very expensive according to the ABT website. 80 tabs per box = 80 washes? I honestly can't compare how many washes per bottle/box Cascade Complete provides. But I think I hear my husband screaming inside right now!!!! Ha ha

80 tabs could be 160 washes

Last year I compared all kinds of DW detergents and I still have boxes and boxes of stuff. I use a different one every week. It all works.

This week I am using Cascade Action Paks with the power of dawn. They work.

Last week I used Cascade Gel. It works, although I did set the detergent dispenser to Liquid. It tends to shorten the wash time especially for light soil loads.

The week before I used ElectraSol red ball tabs with Jet dry shine action.

Before that I used 1/2 Miele tab for each load. 1/2 tab works for normal soil

The week before I used ElectraSol tabs with Jet dry(this is the older version before the red ball)

Before that it was Electrasol Gel which DID NOT WORK WELL. Everything was filmy. It also contained Chlorine Bleach.

Before that it was Cascade Complete with Hydroaction Bleach.

Most of these work.

Seventh Generation Eco Detergent did not work. It left grit all over everything including the inside of the machine.

Rinse Aid:

Miele Rinse Aid or
Jet Dry Green Apple and Vinegar(currently in the machine)

Salt. I get my salt from my appliance store which sells Somat and Miele Salt. You can also order Miele Salt from their web site. Somat VS Miele - it's all Salt but it must be DW salt and not table or the kind you use to de-ice sidewalks. You can check online for salt....also try searching for Somat.

If your water is harder than 8 grains per gallon the DW will ask for salt because I think this is the value it is trying to stay at or under. If you water is constantly lower than this the DW will not ask for salt.

The DW will adjust the softness of the incoming water during each fill. Salt consumption will vary with your water hardness. My water last week was 19 grains per gallon. This week and many weeks all during this summer it has been between 12 and 14. In the dead of winter and spring it will be 7.

During the Summer I have added salt every other month about 3/4 box. During the winter I added it one time at the end of fall. I buy 3 or 4 boxes at once. Still on the ones I bought last year.

* "The Miele owner's manual has instructions for disabling the 'add salt' indicator. It's very simple and requires only a couple of minutes to do." *

My Miele's manual (like the alliteration?) says on page 13 "If the hardness of your local supply is constantly lower than 4°d (4 gr/gal [US]), you do not need to add water softener salt. The 'Insufficient salt' message will turn off automatically." So far it hasn't.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Manual

Chipshot,
Apparently, the newest machines are more automated than my not quite 3-year old Miele. I'm going to venture a guess that your machine is detecting that your water contains more than 4 grains of hardness, so it wants you to use salt. Have you tried adding salt to see if you get improved results?

Improved results? My dishes, glasses, and silverware are already spotless. How can that be improved? It would be nice if the dishwasher put them away for me, LOL.

The current machines do have a different type of water softener than previous models. My model from 1996 had one that you manually set to match the water hardness and it always provided softening for that amount. The instructions told you to set it to the hardness your water would ever be.

The current softener measures the hardness and adjusts the softening to match it. You can display the hardness value at the end of each program, that is how I am seeing that the hardness varies some time day to day. The reports from the Dw match the report from my water department which says that the hardness fluctuates between 7 and 14 during the year.

One more thing about detergent. Miele detergent is designed to work well in low temperatures and dissolves almost completely at 104F. So I use this when I use one of the lower temp washes.

Thanks so much again for this comprehensive discussion. At least I feel more confident about choice now.

jerrod, does that low temperature apply to all Miele dishwasher detergents or just certain forms?

Until now I haven't had a reason to obtain a water hardness report from our water department. Our dishwasher indicates a hardness of 9.

Is it worth purchasing a box of kosher salt to see if anything changes? I'm not sure how I'll be able to tell that my dishes, glasses, and silverware are now even cleaner. It seems sort of a waste to do just to "quiet" the dishwasher's display.

While I was in the settings I also selected 'yes' for Adjust sensor wash. It's not really clear to me what that will do, but what the heck what can it hurt to try?

I think Miele only sells tabs in North America. I think I saw powder being sold in the UK. I tried to order it from there but they don't ship to the USA.

When I tested it I was testing between Miele tabs, Cascade powder and Electrasol tabs. The Miele tabs completely dissoved at 104F. The Cascade powder and ElectraSol tabs did not. El tabs can be hard. I used 104F because the Miele tab box said that it cleaned even in cold water. To me cold is relative, 104F is cold for a DW temp, but the short wash aims for this temperature and the china crystal cycle varies the temp from 98F to 115F depending on soil level so I picked 104F to see how well things dissolved. Dissolving and cleaning are not the same but if a detergent will not fully dissolve it isn't going to clean well either.

I use ElectraSol tabs in the Economy cycle which I think has a temp no greater than 118F and they work well. Dissolving may also have to do with how well the water is mixed and of course how long the wash lasts. I used a jar and shook it. The DW is spraying which is better I guess, but there is only a small amount of water inside and for most cycles the water only covers the bottom screen and does not spread across the bottom.

I had one time where an ElectraSol tab fell out, hit something(I heard it) and bounced to the front in the bottom right at the door and it just sat there doing a slow dissolve because there is no pool of water. I found it because I opened the door to get something during the first rinse. I didn't know what to do so I took the remaining small piece out and closed the door thinking about what to do next. Near the end of that rinse I found that the DW added an additional rinse into the cycle which took care of the problem.

I don't know about your water softener. I just keep salt in mine since my water is sometimes hard. I think one of the things about the softener is that it will help reduce scale that builds up over time and it's use also lets you use less detergent. This may be one reason why the Miele detergent cups don't hold as much as other models. For example the Electrolux DW manual says that for hard water you use 5 teaspoons in the prewash, and 8 teaspoons in the main wash. In the Miele the most you are going to get in the prewash is 2 teaspoons and the main wash 2 tablespoons....so I always use my softener and the salt doesn't cost much. No problems with cleaning or etching.

Forgive me if I don't try taking a 104F shower, LOL.

Since I'm using tabs, I haven't put anything in the pre-rinse compartment. Maybe I'll never need to unless we stop pre-washing dishes in the sink before placing them in the dishwasher.

"Maybe I'll never need to unless we stop pre-washing dishes in the sink before placing them in the dishwasher."

You are pre-washing the dishes? Not recommended. I never do it. There maybe some dishes that get wet if they are sitting in the sink, but I only scrape with a spatula. I never pre-washed in my 1996 Miele either. I have before and after pictures of the casserole used to bake au gratin potatoes and it contains stuck on burned on potatoes and cheese....no pre-washing and it comes clean. At times the dishes are washed about every other day, sometimes they go three days. Nothing is pre-washed, it just sits and gets dried on and I don't do any rinse hold.

I usually don't put anything in the pre-wash but it depends. If the soil is very heavy and the Dw is really packed and I am using powder or gel I might put a bit in the pre-wash cup.

When using a tab I usually don't use anything in the pre-wash cup. The only time I will is if I am using the cheese or starch cycles because they do an 18+ minute hot pre-wash(DW heats the water for this), and I want detergent in there for it. For this load I use 1/4 - 1/2 Miele tab in the pre-wash cup and 1 tab in the main wash cup.

If you pre-wash you remove some of the food soil. Enzymes in the detergent need something to work with. If they don't find it they don't mind working on your dishes, glasses and anything else in the machine.

I know, I know. My lovely wife, however, doesn't trust dishwashers to get dishes clean. She has, on occasion, gone as far as removing dirty dishes I have place in the dishwasher, washing them in the sink, and then returning them to the dishwasher. Maybe I should try using the washer's safety lock as a means of keeping her out until a cycle is run.

If you have a whole house water softener, which I do, the Miele tabs give me better results than other detergents -- but my dw is nearly 4 y.o. (it's the Incognito/Excella equivalent).

I use half a tab per load. Was using the non-chlorine powder previously and got etched glassware from that in combo with the final hot rinse. So I stick to the Miele tabs. Thanks catmom for the tip on Amazon pricing though I bought 2 boxes last time to take advantage of the free shipping so I likely have enough till the end of days.

Most devoted to my DW and oven. Note you have same and I hope you will enjoy using them as much as I do.

the harder the water the more detergent you need to get dishes clean. Water in the 4 range is where you want to be. After a while, untreated hard water will form scale in the DW and then you have to clean it out.

better to use the salt and let the DW recharge the softener as needed

btw - scrape, dont rinse. the detergent needs something to work on - either it is the food or the glass finish

You're welcome rococogurl! Over the past few months I had to order various things: 3M SS spray cleaner/polish, water filter cartridge(s) for the "house" (kitchen) filter, cartridge for the fridge filter, DW salt, and Miele tabs, and wanted to get the best pricing I could on each item.

I found the Amazon pricing for the tabs while searching for the above named products. I was trying to find the best deals/options, and then tried to figure out if added S/H still kept the prices lower than those on sites offering free shipping (in some cases, it did!). I often try to bundle purchase on Amazon to take advantage of "Free Super Saving Shipping," but a lot of the houseware items ship from outside vendors, so shipping or no shipping is up to the individual vendors offering those products. I ended up placing orders for one item from vendor A, one from B, and so on.

I ended up getting some good deals on all the stuff, but it did take a fair amount of research and time!

Pastryqueen--did you order the Optima or the Excella? I have been using Miele rinse agent and Miele salt, which the guys brought when it was installed. I also use Electrasol powder for now. Dishes are fine. I am so glad we have that water softener because I think this is the first dishwasher I have ever owned that doesn't get spots on plastic.

Congrats on your purchase! You will love it. We had our DW running during dinner tonite and didn't even notice it.

We have a Miele Ultra (I think) from a few years ago and are using Ecover detergent tablets and rinse-aid. Works great and is environmentally friendly. We scrape but don't do any pre-washing.

Our Miele repair guy once told me not to use more than 1 Tbsp of powder detergent (we used to use Cascade) - and never use gels (we tried and had problems with it).

Here is a link that might be useful: Ecover Rinse Aid (and DW Tablets)

I use electrasol tabs with Miele rinse aid. I haven't seen a big difference (or any at all) between Miele rinse aid and JetDry, so when the Miele runs out, I will go back to the cheaper JetDry. As for the salt, I stick with Somat that I source at the Miele dealer, which luckily, is about .5 miles from our house.

We have used Trader Joe's Next to Godliness Dishwashing Detergent powder (in the green box) for years with excellent results. We first tried it after researching effective yet septic-safe (phosphate-free) alternatives to Cascade or Electrosol for our Bosch. Then we used it for years in our F&P Dish Drawers, and now in our Miele. It cleans beautifully every time regardless of challenge (scraping without pre-rinsing).

We use Finish Jet Dry rinse agent (available at Costco by the quart) with excellent reults. We do not need salt with our soft well water.

"During the summer I have added salt every other month about 3/4 box. During the winter I added it one time at the end of fall. I buy 3 or 4 boxes at once."

I need to correct this statement because I just realized that I am not adding salt every other month during the summer. I added salt at the beginning of June. What IS HAPPENING is that the water softener is regenerating every other month this summer which is more than in the winter when the water is softer. I have not had to add additional salt.

Is it your Miele's water softener that's regenerating, or your whole house water softener? If your Miele, how can you tell that it is regenerating?

I don't have a whole house water softener so there's nothing going on there.

My previous Miele Dw had program sequence lights on the control panel. They were labeled top to bottom: Softener, Prewash, Main wash, Interim Rinse, Final Rinse, Dry. The machine would start at Prewash except when it was time to regenerate the softener and in that case the softener light would be on. To regenerate the machine would draw water for a few seconds, then stop and pause a bit, then draw again for a few seconds and then stop and sit. It repeated this several times over a 3 to 5 minute period. At the end it would go into a drain period and the softener light would go out and the prewash light would come on and it would start the prewash.
So from this I figured to expect something like this to happen with my new DW at the beginning of the cycle.

This newer one does not indicate that softener regeneration is going on but I can tell because the behavior is similar. As soon as you push start, water runs in and the drain pump starts. Over a two minute period the DW will draw a bit of water, then pause, draw more water then pause. It does this while the drain pump runs continuously. The display says just says Prewash. At the end of about 2 minutes, the drain pump will stop and then go into a drain period followed by water running in and the regular prewash will start. This is not the normal thing that takes place at the beginning of a cycle, so I only connect this operation to the softener because I have seen similar behavior from my previous Miele DW. The extra 2 minutes of softening time is included in estimated time remaining when you select the cycle, so the Dw has previously determined to do this step - probably at the end of the last cycle you ran.

On Detergent: I switched to Miele tabs this week. Although most detergents clean very will I think the Miele tabs leave an extra bit of shine to everything. I keep thinking I am crazy to think this, but I noticed it right away today when I took out a glass and I had forgotten I used a tab.

Did you use a full or half tab jerrod? I'd been using full tabs, but switched to half tabs recently. So many people have reported great results with half tabs, it made sense to try it that way (have used half before, just not consistently)--$ savings and all. Also, our wine glsses are now all coated with a film--etched? Vinegar soak didn't remove it, so I'm assuming they're etched. They are cheapie glasses, but it's not too pleasant to use when they are all filmy looking. I need to call Miele about this, but keep putting it off.

Cat_mom

For that load I used a full tab because the dishes had been sitting from Friday night until Monday morning and were un-rinsed. For lighter loads I may use a half tab but I am lazy and sometimes just toss in a full one.
The Dw is currently loaded with Mondays un-rinsed dishes and Tuesday morning breakfast dishes and I wonÂt do another load until WED morning(tomorrow) which will include that days breakfast dishes. I think Roccogurl uses the China Crystal cycle with ½ tab and is getting good results.
What I will do is use a lower temp cycle such as Economy with a ½ tab, my normal soil and let you know what the results are. I think Economy uses a lower max temp(113F)than China Crystal(98F to 118F) and it starts right with the wash so I will be sure to get cold water coming into the machine.

I think etching depends on several factors along with water temp and conditions. In my case I have 4 glasses(started with 6) that are cloudy in the same areaÂthe bottoms. I bought these in 2006 and to be truthful I probably would not buy glasses from this store except for the fact that the kitchen designer gave me a gift certificate to the place so I had to buy something and settled on glasses. They are thin and also break easily.

I keep a few sets of everyday glasses and dishes going. One set of glasses and dishes were purchased in the late 1980Âs --Spooky I know. These have been through a Whirlpool, 2 KitchenAids , my first Miele of 10 years and now this current one. The other set of glasses and dishes were purchased in the late 1990Âs and so have not been through the Whirlpool or first KitchenAid. Buy this time some of the plates have scratches on them but none the glasses has etching on them  only the ones purchased in 2006. In my case I canÂt say itÂs the detergent because I used Electrasol powder and later Electrasol tabs exclusively before Miele tabs came on the market in 2007 and now I alternate between detergents each week. I also know that I send these dishes through all kinds of cycles like pots and pans so I canÂt complain, but the fact is that the older glasses are OK and these newer ones with less use are cloudy all in one area. I also wonder what the real effect of using detergent with enzymes is. Never used to hear so much about etching until these detergents came out...maybe it's a coincidence.

I will let you know what happens with the low temp, ½ tab load and IÂll try to pay attention to see if they are shiny or I am a nut.

I just use normal cycle. Have used pots and pan on occasion, but wasn't sure if that was the cause of the cloudiness that we saw on a few of the glasses following a P&P cycle (all my loads are mixed, as they probably are for most people--I'd think that the majority of cycles should work with mixed loads, don't you agree?).

I had heard or read somewhere that it's the cheap glass that tends to etch or at least, etch more easily. Could be why we've been seeing it on the wine glasses a friend picked up for us in Chinatown or the Lower East Side (NYC) and not on our regular glasses (heavier, thicker glass), although I think one of those is showing some signs of etching at this time.

Our old glasses were very cloudy (I think?), and they were washed in an old KA DW for years. They were also a thinner, lighter glass, more like the wine glasses.

I know I should call Miele......maybe next week!

Here are the results of using ½ Miele tab with cooler water and less intense cycle.

The cycle:

I picked the Economy cycle because I wanted to feed the DW water as cold as I could. This cycle does not do a prewash(short wash and rinse) before the main wash like the normal cycle does, it just starts with the wash and does two rinses and dry. It is also is supposed to use a lower temperature and it generally doesnÂt take as long. So I thought this would be a good test of a ½ tab in cooler water with a less intense cycle. If a ½ tab can clean in this then it should be able to clean in china crystal, normal, and more intense cycles.

The food Soil:

The dishes and pans were soiled with cauliflower with grated cheese, brussel sprouts, vegetable samosas with mint sauce, sweet potatoes, asparagus, barbecue tofu, hearts of palm salad, tabouli salad, cooked oat bran cereal, cold raisin bran flax cereal,biscuits, coffee, and tea.

The dishes consisted of:

7 large plates, six small plates, 10 bowls, 2 corning sauce pans used to cook the oak bran, 1 colander, 3 plastic containers with lids, 6 glasses, 4 cups, 5 mugs, 1 stainless steel prep dish, cheese grater, 1 spatula, 6 knives, 9 forks, and 28 spoons. Dishes were scraped but nothing was pre rinsed. I couldnÂt scrape the cheese grater so it just went into the machine as is.

In use:

I put a digital thermometer inside the machine a few hours before starting it, to see how cool the sides might be. It had a reading of 64 degrees before I started the machine. In the basement the sink is connected to the hot water supply line before the Dw, so after the fill I ran a bit of water in a jar and inserted an instant read thermometer. The water temp was 69F. About 2 minutes after the wash started the estimated cycle time increased by 7 minutes.

After 30 minutes I opened the door and stuck the instant read thermometer into the pool of water at the bottom ÂIt read 118F. The wash ended about 15 minutes after this. The first rinse lasted 10 minutes, the incoming water for the last rinse was 123F and the rinse lasted 15 minutes.

After the dry I opened the door. Everything was clean and without any trace of oat bran or dirt. I donÂt think the shine was quite as bright, or maybe it never was, but everything was clean. A half tab worked well in this load with a lower temp and less time, so I guess it would work in the china crystal, normal , or more intense cycles and it may make the wash water solution gentler. I mean they make it so it can be split in half. Of course individual water conditions play a part in the result. I checked the water hardness after the cycle and it was at 14.

Cat Mom..and all

Here are the results of using ½ Miele tab with the China Crystal cycle. I had to add more rinse aid so I added Miele Rinse aid. I have used this cycle only one time since IÂve had this machine and that was washing dusty vases. For that first load there was a prewash with no water change between it and the wash, a 22 minute wash, 2 rinses and dry. The load this week contained my everyday soil and dishes and the cycle consisted of a prewash and water change, followed by a 46 minute wash, 3 rinses instead of 2, and dry.

The food Soil:
I am stating the type of food so you can get an idea of what types of soils are being cleaned in the loads. This load had similar soil to the other load and consisted of: mixed vegetables, carrots, squash, hot oat bran cereal and rice cereals , pasta(noodles), sautéed mushrooms, falafel with hummus and tahini, spinach, coffee, and tea.
There were not quite as many dishes in this load as the previous one but the corning pans used to cook the cereals were included and this is 2 day load. No pre rinsing done.

In use:

The incoming water for the prewash was 77F. Incoming water for the wash was 100F. Incoming water for the first rinse was 96F, second rinse 107F, and the third rinse was 93F. The water hardness was 13.
I measured the inside wash water temperature 30 minutes into the wash. The temperature was 111F. The wash lasted about 16 more minutes. An additional rinse was added followed by the dry.

Conclusion:

Everything was completely clean. I knew the DW could clean well but I never expected to have clean dishes in a water temp this low. The Miele tabs say they clean well cold water but I really didnÂt believe that either. I expected to find some of the hardened bran or rice or something on the dishes.

If you are concerned about high temps and detergent causing etching or anyone wants to hand pre rinse their dishes this cycle maybe perfect. It worked for my everyday load of dishes and ½ of the Miele tab was effective with this dried on soil at this temp. I still donÂt believe this but I looked at the dishes. Water conditions will impact results.

I have the language setting on my DW set to British English, so the display uses terms common to that language. The china crystal cycle is displayed with the name "Sensor wash gentle" followed by a picture of a wine glass. So if youÂve got a china crystal cycle youÂve really got a sensor wash using cooler water  but still controlling the temperature as well as the cycle composition and water usage. Check your user manual on the program page. If you see the words "as required" when it describes the parts of the china crystal cycle your DW is using the program and soil sensors to control it.

I don't know if other DW have cycles using temperatures this low, and I don't know how other detergents may perform at 111F, but the Miele tabs, even 1/2 of it, seem to work well.