This kind of thing really irks me... that pet owners somehow feel it's perfectly ok to allow their pets to use other peoples' yards as bathrooms! And then, to not even have the decency to pick it up! I have 4 dogs, and I would never let them damage someones property! I don't let them damage mine! They are well-trained, and when off my property, are leashed! This is a sore subject with me... not because neighbor dogs have done damage to my property, but because I feel there is no excuse for a poorly trained or unleashed animal! But then, I suppose you need to be smarter than your dog in order to train it or put a leash on it! My yard is divided and fenced... the gardens are outside the "dog yard". I have a male dog that spent most of the winter urinating against the fence at one spot... the spot where my red mini rose is planted. Upon removing the leaf debris this spring, I found that the rose was damaged by the warm urine hitting it in the cold weather, and the repeated wetness had caused mold and mildew to grow in the mulch, and a few branches are now dead. I'm not sure what steps you'd want to take to keep neighborhood dogs out of your gardens, but I think repeated puddles can definitely do some damage... I'm sure the feces isn't the greatest thing for a garden, either. Morons who can't train or leash their pets don't deserve to have them!

I was on vacation, returned yesterday, happy to get so many responses to my post, and wonderful feedback. Coolplantsguy - yes, I do love peonies and heirloom plants for that matter, I just don't have the room though I admire them in my neighbors yard. The one we had toppled from the weight of the blooms, I don't know the variety, they were here when we purchased. Thanks for the suggestion, I will consider if I ever find the space again...my lawn gets smaller with each passing year. LOL. Pat, you make me chuckle. I'm like you. I spend so much time planning and thinking things through over the winter, only to find later that I don't like the combos or placement, so I plan again for next year. Some of my plant combos happened by accident & some I've followed suggestions when researching companion plants. I'm still learning how textures compliment eachother, and other things I didn't know to think about a few years back, but it's fun to learn. Summer is too short though. Prairiemoon, I also have Astilbe planted next to my Annabelle, and I enjoy the contrast of the red plumes and darker foliage with the brighter green backdrop of Annabelle. I've learned it's best to NOT fertilize it once it's established, it makes the blooms too heavy and they'll topple. Still, the rain does make them flop, but mine usually bounce back, I have one staked with a support, but it was just planted this year. I also cut my dianthus blooms back before I left for vacation, and returned to a new flush of blooms, the foliage tends to yellow on me though, I need to stop watering, I didn't realize they're drought tolerant. I forget the variety, it's got blue spiky foliage and red flowers. I will have to do more research on hellebores...we added a raised planting bed/retaining wall with a row of purple leaf sandcherries on top, and I'm looking for an underplanting in full sun; the sandcherries will be trimmed into a tree form once established. For now, I planted yellowish hostas at the base for contrast, but I know they won't do well in full sun. I'm glad to hear about Sedum Angelina, mine will be delivered some time this week, now I'm really looking forward to growing them, I just worry about our new dog, she's so rambunctious - she's a chihuahua boston terrier mix, the cutest thing, she likes to grab my plants and tug on them..I'll have to get her some more toys. I was thinking of amending my soil for the iris, adding more grit for drainage, we'll see if that works. I had one aster that bloomed for me, but it was spindly, a combo of dry soil in this area and minimal sun, but my campanula that I moved not too long ago is doing much better, must be the sun. I have to move the asters, just trying to find a location. It's funny about the Autumn Joy Sedum, my husband keeps telling me to pot them up since I can't find the 'right' place for them, I'll have to try that. I do like the blooms, very pretty, and they grow amazingly large after transplanting a single stalk, very impressive. I will try to post a pic of William Baffin rose when I have a chance..the pic is not mine as mine is only a few months new and I'm still learning how to prune them to shape, but my friend has one along their property and it's a stunner, grows upright almost like a tree canopy, and does well in our zone without protection and is disease resistant, with prolific blooms, but I know they have to trim it back regularly, it's a monster. Give me a couple of days and I'll try to post here if I can figure out photobucket. Of the climbers, I have Don Juan and Sombreuil. They died back almost to the ground, but new growth emerged in the spring, so they're still puny and it's the end of July, though I also transplanted them in early spring. We'll see next year if they do better. I purchased Smokebush 'Grace' and 'Golden Spirit' - I've read there's some potential winter die back, mine is only a month new, but I've also heard that they grow like weeds once established, so even with winter die back they'll grow like crazy. 'Golden Spirit' has new growth in a pretty lime green color and grows more upright in form whereas 'Grace' fans out. 'Grace' grows at a house up the street from us and it's just beautiful, especially with the smokey plumes. I ask my husband to slow down every time we drive by. :) Phyl in Chicagoland, I'm embarrassed to post pics. I still consider my landscaping in the beginning stages, most plants aren't mature or established yet, I've moved a lot around, still a work in progress. I had problems with photobucket last time I tried, but I'll see what I can do. I'll tell you though, do an internet search on 'Nancy J. Ondra', I came across her website when researching plants (that's where I got my iris and lemonbalm combo inspiration from) - her garden is to die for, absolutely STUNNING!!! I peruse her garden pics whenever I get the winter blues. Mxk, I was also looking at the Iris pallida but wasn't sure if it would look odd to mix these with the non variegated type. If you like the look of Jacobs Ladder, it reminds me of a shrub, Carol Mackie Daphne. Same variegated foliage, with pretty spring flowers. Connie, this is also my first year with wave petunias and I love them, I have them in hanging baskets. I've read they are self-cleaning, unlike the regular petunias, but I still deadhead here and there. I'd do them again, definitely. The foliage is also very pretty. Gabby, I used to throw tags away, but as the gardening world became more intriguing to me, I've learned to write down the names of my plants on a 'map' of my yard...LOL. Mostly in an attempt to overcome winter blahs, I also compiled a list of plants that need deadheading, cutting back, dividing, etc. so I know what to do come spring. Daylilyluvr, ok, like I said I'm an 'advanced' beginner in the gardening world, still in my learning curve. LOL. I had no idea Sweet William was a biennial. I've had it for two years now, the blooms are stunning, but this year it got all brown and ratty after blooms were spent, I chalked that up to too much watering. I cut it back and it looks like a few blooms are starting to come in again, but I had to remove old dried stems. Web says if you don't let it self seed it will shoot up more stems and act as a perennial...looks like that's what's happening for me as I likely cut back the spent blooms last year too. Crunchpa, my favorite person from the container gardening forum. LOL. I have a TON of containers this year, maybe too many. It takes me over an hour just to water everything, and that's just the containers, but I think I got overzealous and overstuffed them this time around...still, I wouldn't go without my containers, I'm hooked. I love that moss sedum, I'll have to try it. You always have the best pics. I still have dirt to cover until everything is established, I'm waiting patiently though my transplanting doesn't help either. I was looking into that red hot poker at one point, if I remember correctly I think it goes dormant mid season and then comes back again later?? Or am I thinking of something else? Pretty. I'll have to research more of the suggestions here, though I'll probably be losing more lawn in the process. :)

What's with this ad? Ivillage thinks tomato freaks are going to be interested in some stupid doll? Granted, the *star* over the "i" in Girlz is just to die for and she's apparently wearing a see-through top (with no bra?!), so that's totally hot, but still... Puzzled, Rain

· Posted by: hnwillis z8 SC (My Page) on Thu, Nov 29, 01 at 15:22 Ya'll gotta be some of the funniest people. After going through the ordeal of many a gardenia suicides, I decided it was time to plant them outside (great humidity and heat-Z8 SC). I hate to say this but two years ago I planted 2 gardenia plants on the northwest side of my house. They have been doing just fine. They are just at 2-3 feet tall. I have pruned them together this past sprng into a low hedge next to my white picket fence. I have planted the trimmings amongst a groundcover of Gerbera Daisies in a 24 inch plastic pot that I also planted a 10 ft crooked willow tree on the southside of my house. I also put some trimmings into small pots with cheap Wal-Mart garden soil. To my surprise, they have taken root and are growing like crazy. I put one particular cutting into a pot by itself to be able to bring in the house. I left it outside all spring and summer (it rained constantly when I first planted them). This one stayed in 5 inches of water/dirt for 2 months. I have brought the sole potted plant into my sunroom and placed it inside a miniture greenhouse. I doesn't seem to be growing like it did outside. I'm really thinking that it likes to be outdoors in humidity, heat and southern exposure. Go figure? So from 1 pruning of two plants I have successfully propagated 10+ little ones. I can't wait until they bloom. Also, the main idea for planting them outside is that my neighbor has a 10 ft tall, 7 ft wide "gardenia bush" that is heavenly when it blooms. I have taken pictures of it because people don't believe me. I know she doesn't do anything special to any of her plants. One thing we do have in common is acidic clay soil which our azaleas and camellias seem to thrive on. · Posted by: bedou z10 Ft. L. Fl (My Page) on Fri, Dec 7, 01 at 1:15 Its 1:09 in the morning. My laughter must have woken my husband up, so I suppose I should put the kettle on! From a nude plot of land in Ft. Lauderdale, I have tried to fill it up with fragrant choices. Yes, Gardenia included. Its yellow leaves tend to give me a good contrast against all those green ones that are flourishing. Alas, they tend to fall off, so I just use them as mulch where they land. Time to find something else! I certainly shall not spend time agonizing over it, from what you have all said. Oh well, I had such high hopes!!! Joanmary · Posted by: fpogoda 5 N NJ (My Page) on Mon, Dec 17, 01 at 12:21 Just wanted to be sure regarding the indoor gardenia temp. issue: is the optimum temperature 70 degrees during the day, then 55 degrees at night? Thanks · Posted by: yugoslava 6 ) on Sat, Dec 29, 01 at 20:56 I have been fairly successful with azaleas and rhododendrons and wonder if it would be possible to keep gardenia dormant over winter and bring it out in spring, plant it among rhodos and leave it until it gets cold. I have admired gardenias from afar for the longest time, but I knew indoor conditions in the winter were not the best, so I have never had one to call my own. Would it be possible to keep gardenia cool over winter as I do with my fig tree and brugmansia? The scent is absolutely intoxicating! One word about people who live in warm or coastal areas. You have no trouble growing tropical plants which we can only see when we take tropical vacations for which we have to pay dearly. I live in Great Lakes Region with short seasons but we all dream of exotic plants growing luxuriantly indoors. Which is why we fret and fuss endlessly. · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Tue, Jan 8, 02 at 10:16 This has to be the funniest thread I've ever read at the GardenWeb. I laughed so hard I could hardly talk and had tears in my eyes!! I printed out the whole thread to share with other pour souls who have tried to grow Gardenias according to all the best recommendations, only to watch them wither away. We have a Gardenia growing on a slight slope in alkaline clay soil under a Japanese Black Pine tree. It gets mid-to-late sun. It gets watered whenever we run the lawn sprinklers. It isn't the most prolific plant we grow, but at least it's alive and produces some blooms for us each year. The success is probably due to the fact that my husband is the one who cares for it, and he is not a by-the-book gardener... he just waters whenever he thinks the lawn needs water, feeds it when he remembers (I think the last time was about 2 years ago), etc. LOL!!! · Posted by: Rosalie 5-6 salt lake (My Page) on Wed, Jan 9, 02 at 11:30 this thread is hilarious! and now famous -- a link to it is posted at the garden party forum, so some of us have wandered over to check out your battles -- i believe i will stick with xeric types -- no chicken dances for me -- thanks for the laughs! and good luck to all -- rosalie · Posted by: ccl38 8A Savannah, GA (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 15:59 I too have had trouble with vetchii. Mine was so large and so heavy with blooms I decided to prune it. We couldn't get past it down the walk. Once prunned it went into a decline and it has never been the same. I have another variety that I rooted about three years ago from a large bush growing at the edge of the swamp near where I work. It is mostly in shade, never gets watered and would probably measure 5 feet, and it has those huge saucer size blossoms and smells wonderful. I don't shake a chicken so I guess I must have held my mouth right when I planted it. They are my favorite plant. For me it is a pass along plant. I root them all summer and give them to anyone who comes along and wants one. · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Thu, Jan 17, 02 at 19:23 cc 138 you must have 'the magic touch'Well done, and I say that with honest envy. The question is, are you ready, willing and able to produce 75-+ rooted cuttings from a 'proven' specimen with the right karma, one for each of the above postings, to restore our faith in this plant and to bring aid and comfort to all of us who have been brought down by this picky, picky plant? lol!!! Joanmary · Posted by: Lily 5 IL (My Page) on Fri, Jan 18, 02 at 21:16 I got a Gardenia "Veitchii" last January as a gift, loaded with buds. Looking for culture info I found this thread. Aftering reading everyone's experience, I thought I was going to kill it for sure. I held my breath when I was anywhere near it. I misted it daily and then decided not to mist after my hard water left ugly mineral stains on the leaves. More then half of the buds dropped and it refused to bloom indoor! It got a lot of half yellowed leaves before I dragged it outside in late Spring. It thrived outside and bloomed! In the mean time I got hooked on orchids. I started using the leftover orchid water (rain water with 1/4 strenth of fertilizer and a drop of Superthrive/per gallon) to water the gardenia. It's been growing like crazy! Now it's back in the house in front of my south facing window, and in bloom! It's in a 12" plastic pot and about 2 feet tall. Maybe it's the rain water or the superthrive, but there is definitely hope for all gardenia lovers! · Posted by: Jenn z9/19 SoCal (My Page) on Sun, Jan 20, 02 at 13:40 So that's the trick... "water with leftover orchid water". Why don't the gardening books say that?!? LOL! · Posted by: Lali z9, 18, So Cal (My Page) on Mon, Jan 21, 02 at 15:16 I can't believe how long this topic has gone on for. It is sooo hilarious! Anyway, I'm trying my first attempt to grow gardenias. I put them in the backyard (northern exposure) with ferns and azaleas, so I'm hoping they will be ok. Now that I've read this post, I'm really really really skeptical that they will bloom or even live by my hand. Thanks for the laugh! Lali · Posted by: freesias Z9 ) on Tue, Feb 19, 02 at 23:35 Oh My GOD! I just planted THREE 1 gal. 'Veitchii' gardenias in my front yard mixed border. I have a feeling, my are gonna DIE on me. I am definitely not touching these guys! Will water once every couple of weeks. THAT'S IT!!!! · Posted by: susan_CA z9 CA ) on Sun, Feb 24, 02 at 16:05 What a great thread! Gardenia culture is such a thrill of success/agony of defeat experience. Anticipating an unknown failure rate, I bought 6 'Veitchii'! The two planted directly under a tree (where I wanted to sit) and northern foundation exposure died. The two planted in eastern foundation exposure with shade mid-day on bloom copiously all summer. The two planted in western foundation exposure, where light tree shade relieves afternoon heat after 4pm do almost as well. All get composted manure in early spring, pine needle mulch, half-strength chelated minerals whenever leaves begin to pale or MirAcid if I think of it, water from sprinkler system early a.m. (including on leaves) daily in summer in the hot, dry central valley, and have FAST drainage. The two that died were in locations with slower drainage and more shade. The only year I had some bud drop was the year we had a late, wet spring, but they bloomed fine all summer. I have seen specimens in full sun in the central valley; they bloom well, but leaves & blossoms show sunburn damage. So I'm going with the sun/shade, wet/dry, feed/not theory. · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 0:42 Oh my, oh my! The woman at the nursery said I could have an indoor gardenia in my east-window-garden (morning sun, high level of light the rest of the day), but it sounds like she forgot to tell me I'd need to install a swamp for it, as well. I certainly have plenty of heat for it, here on the low desert. I may be joining the ranks of the guilty gardenia group: I'm not likely to "mist" the miserable thing, nor am I likely to change my habits in on-going care (I am sadly irregular about watering and feeding my only other plant--a low-maintenance Madagascar Palm--dracena). I prepared the soil well enough though (a standard potting soil mixed with half-again as much peat moss), I placed the plant "high" in the middle of the pot, added a layer of peat moss on the top, and covered it all with some additional organic mulch, watered it in with an "acid" feeding, and set it above a large, relatively deep saucer with plenty of water for evaporation. I may have misunderstood the nursery lady's comment about the roots, though, because I removed a great deal of the soil from the root ball and treated the roots with hormone before placing it in the new pot and soil mix. I read in the messages above that this plant may not have liked that messing about with its roots. I believe I'll acquire one of those devices that gives a reading of the humidity, to see just how dry my window garden area really is. We'll see what happens. While I may be capable of sustaining this thing's life for a short while, after reading all of this, I'm not planning on much success with it. I tend to move on to other projects, and I'm afraid the poor thing will have to shift for itself more than it is constitutionally capable. Of course, reading about the success of those who largely ignored their gardenia gives me some hope. That's more my style. At least I have a good excuse for turning the AC down to 70 starting in April. I just don't think the local power usage police are going to understand it when I tell them that my astronomical power draw is necessary for the health of a plant. This is going to be expensive emotionally and monetarily. Who would have thought a trip to the nursery would result in such bondage? · Posted by: Joanmary_z10 z10 Ft. L. Fl. (My Page) on Fri, Mar 8, 02 at 13:16 Oh, what a wonderful laugh this has been! My poor old gardenia is there in Florida, with no one to care for it, depending on the sprinkler system to 'do its thing' and I have no clue what is happening to it. However I have my dark moments when I can see the Christmas lights decorating its bare twigs come December! Taking it that I will be using its twigs as mulch sometime soon, I have bought as a replacement, the African Gardenia. Now I wonder if this is in the same category? Here's to Gardenias who can take neglect!! · Posted by: jxnphx Zn9 AZ (My Page) on Sat, Mar 9, 02 at 15:31 I discussed my newly acquired gardenia issue with my elder sister who, smirking, told me it would probably do me good to have something to worry about. I can only think she was being complimentary about my faultless children and long-ago departed harpy of a wife. She herself has a half-dozen off-spring who provide her with plenty of heart-rending despair. Just in case she was being a smart-ass though, I bought my plant an ultrasonic humidifier which pumps 2.6 gallons of water vapor into the air each day, and I hurried to the used book store and increased my holdings in James Lee Burke (setting: southern Louisiana). I suppose I could have picked up some Faulker, as well, but he's so damned hard to read. I can't stand Tennessee Williams. I am thinking that a few dark and decadent thought-waves might make the gardenia feel a little more at home here in the bright, parched protestant desert southwest. Although it's only been a couple of days, I'm sure it's looking a little better than when I brought it home from the nursery; but just the same, I'm going to keep my eye on a new leaf that is looking a little yellowish. I don't want my dear sister to have the last laugh. · Posted by: BarbC coastal SC (My Page) on Fri, Apr 12, 02 at 15:53 LOL - I have tears rolling down my face and flooding the den. I have 2 unknown variety gardenias that I bought at HD 4 years ago. Since then, I have done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to them and yet they thrive. They survived the great flood of '99 (were under 6 FEET of nasty swamp/river water and were still green 3 months later when the water finally went away) They were only 1ft tall at the time, so literally had 5ft of nasty black water on top of them. I even had to pick dried toilet paper off them, as the flood had taken the contents of 1000 septic tanks along its path. Those two gardenias and the roses were the only plants to survive that mess. Anyway, once I could finally walk through my yard again (without sinking up to my eyeballs in slimy mud) I dug those suckers up and moved them to my new (dry) house (roses too). They are still there and doing beautifully in full southern afternoon sun. I do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING special to them. I don't even ater then during droughts. Maybe that's the secret? The guy across the street has a couple and he also does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to his and his are even nicer than mine. Perhaps we are killing these plants with kindness? Maybe what they really want is to just be left alone?